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Bergmann
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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 7:37 pm)

Richard Perle wrote:This site has the kind of presentation that we need for a revisionist site.
http://www.ushmm.org/

I think that that site is financed by courtesy of the US taxpayer.

This is a great idea, but there are already so many revisionist sites, I think that I have the addresses of 50 such sites.

Also to be successful it is necessary to give a balanced view, to include honestly both sides of the aisle. And leave it to the reader to come to his own conclusion.

Anyway, I am always 'up to no good' when it comes to the Jewish Holocaust myth, the moral-pathetic Holocaust litany.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:07 pm)

Yes, the taxpayer funded US holocaust memorial museum.

I think that the German government should build, in Berlin, the American Indian Memorial Museum. To help insure that "never again" the native indiginous peoples of a land are kicked off their land and decimated. Oh yeah, that's happening right now in Palestine! oops.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:07 pm)

It wouldn't suprise me if tax payers were funding that. I think revisionists need that kind of presentation as it does wonders for the state of mind of the visitor.

Good ideas, Ajax. I like especially the idea of a holocaust timeline, showing the evolution of the hoax. Although there are so many things that would be important to such a timeline that I don't know how clear it would be if including them all. Design is crucial. If you look at how complicated timelines can be, such as by looking at the 9/11 timeline here: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/ you can see how the clear format might not work.

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Postby kk » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 9:04 pm)

CCS, I like very much what you do, but I think you should aim lower than
your ideal.
Which is your target group?

The Evangelicals?
The agnostics, atheists, etc?
The conservative american right?
The liberals?

Is there a way to reach all these people?

I should think that just showing the bare facts to them won't mean
much in the end.

I hope that I'm wrong.

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Postby Moderator3 » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 01, 2005 11:53 pm)

kk,
How about some contributing comments instead of silly remarks. Add some meat to your posts, we've been through this before. We're not going to have this forum cluttered with non-substantive posts. Get with it, we're tired of saying this to you.
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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:50 am)

Which is your target group?

I would maybe imagine a presentation for my neighbor, and then just try to be myself and not take on some "presentation voice." I'd just be casual. Of course my neighbor would never see it, but to visualize that person might be good. Then I'd use video, or "screen captures" as a way to compare text.

This is a very important point: You don't need a digital camera to do video. Look how much you could do with simple sceen-shots. There's all kinds of software and built-in computer features to grab screen shot stills. Then you could edit them and crop them and draw on them, or highlight them in Adobe Photoshop, and then import them into Apple imovie and extend them in the construction window for as long as you want them. Then put in a voiceover.

There's also software for taking video of your screen. In other words the way to get video of what's happening on your computer screen is NOT to point a digital camera at it. The way to do it is to obtain software that takes videos of your screen. Usually this software costs between 20 and 100 dollars, or it's free.

Imagine what you could do with what I've described above: you could comment on "text." You could comment and compare "text." Then all you need to do is to go to Yale University's Avalon Project, where you have the Nuremberg transcripts, take your screen shots and for less than a hundred dollars in software and a lot of time, planning and studying, you could make a SCATHING video about the hypocrisy of the Nuremberg trials. Within imovie you could learn to put screen captures of text side by side, to make all kinds of points.

And you wouldn't have to make any new points. Something Faurisson said 15 years ago, but packaged in this new medium would be enough.

There's a way to ad credits to imovie. When you're ready for that part, you need to know the concept of "pseudonym." I wouldn't advise using your real name. But you could always add something cryptic so that you could always prove it was you if you desired.

The one other thing to invest in for a project like this is a sound card, with good DA converters. That means digital/analog converters. There's a lot of cards on the market from Digidesign MBox, Layla, Echo, (but not Soundblaster.) This will cost 200-500 dollars. But that way your voiceover is decent quality audio.

Also, you wouldn't want to spend 6 months on it and never get feedback. Rather it would be good to put a piece of it on the web, in some free yahoo account space and then come here and have people look at it, via a link you provide, and then people here would give you feedback. If your video was 20 minutes long, then I'd put each 5 minutes here for review.

Imagine the potential. Suppose you wanted to do something on the Anne Frank diaries. You go to a used bookshop, get a 5 dollar copy. Come home, take an exacto knife, cut out certain pages, take a digital photo of them or scan them, bring them into photoshop, highlight passages with the yellow semi-translucent paint tool, and then import your graphic into imovie.

When you're ready to put the final product on the web, you'd want a paragraph of text below the actual movie link, describing what the movie is about, so google would pick it up, as google can't catalog video content.

Revisionist filmmaking might not have all the glamour of Hollywood, lol, but there might be a selfless spiritual gratification that you would get, because what you are doing is trying to free people from a mental and psychological prison they're in, and that's what a true artist does anyway.

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Postby Sushicotto » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 5:30 am)

Your project is a great idea. There are many good websites already, but we do need one specifically designed for beginners or believers willing to consider the other side.

Many here have provided good ideas. I just want to add the following (maybe some have been mentioned already):

The first impression one gets from visiting the main page is critical. It should have one or a few short introductory paragraphs to get the visitor curious and wanting to go further. The visitor must quickly realize that revisionists include some very serious scholars; they are not a bunch of anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi, white supremacist, hatemongers. As long as they have the wrong impression of revisionists, they will not want to consider anything you say, no matter how good the rest of the website is.

In addition to demonstrating what did not happen, I feel there is a need to explain clearly what did happen (typhus deaths, delousing chambers, and overall chaotic conditions near the end). After all, everyone has seen the terrible images and many believe that revisionists say that nothing happened (i.e., no camps, no dead inmates…). Once the visitor understands the other side, without necessarily believing yet that the holocaust is a hoax, he/she can then investigate in greater depth the impossibility of the holocaust story. A description of allied concentration camps may help in demonstrating that placing people in these camps was not that unusual. Also, an explanation of how inmates arrived at Auschwitz, underwent the screening and disinfecting procedures, and boarded other trains or were diverted to the hospital. This might help explain why many believe (or claim to) that many were exterminated by gassing immediately after the screening.

You must clearly demonstrate the absence of irrefutable documentation of the holocaust and a refutation of those alleging to support the holocaust. Also an explanation of real documents (e.g., concerning emigration of Jews) that reinforce the revisionist views of what really happened.

I think a clear timeline should be provided so that any event (true or alleged) as well as documents can be put in the correct context.

Without diverting too much from the main subject, I think a small section describing the general situation in Germany prior to Hitler’s rise to power until the end of the war would be helpful.

Cheers
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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:29 am)

Sushicotto wrote:The first impression one gets from visiting the main page is critical. It should have one or a few short introductory paragraphs to get the visitor curious and wanting to go further. The visitor must quickly realize that revisionists include some very serious scholars; they are not a bunch of anti-Semitic, neo-Nazi, white supremacist, hatemongers. As long as they have the wrong impression of revisionists, they will not want to consider anything you say, no matter how good the rest of the website is.


Spot on, Sushicotto. Everything anyone can find should be scholarly, polite, and directed and providing answers.

As far as the target group is concerned, well that should be anyone: my neighbour, my work colleagues, the folks I meet at dinner parties and discuss contemporary issues over a meal and bottle of wine with.
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Postby Juan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:02 pm)

What about:

"A new theory: what really happened during the Holocaust"

Mention all measures against jews, including deportation. At the time you arrive at the camps, tell the truth. If you still put the innocent jews who where interned and forced to work as slaves, as victims.

A good one would be telling a fictional-realist story of a jew who lost his family in the deportation and never heard about them again, believed they died in the gas chambers and finally (thanks to some IHR investigators) reunited with his family in Morocco. Get sure to mention the brutality of his camp criminal kapos, the fact that thyere where a lot of common delinquents at the camps, maybe a long stay at the hospital with typhus and finally the fateful decision to stay with the soviets or go with the germans.

Thinking about it, this would be a revisionist best-seller!!! A job for Mr. Irving, maybe? :wink: don't forget to add me at the credits!

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 2:15 pm)

Nice one Juan - my own fictional 'survivors reunited' story idea was a little less tasteful. It involved the two protagonists being reunited on the onetime British television show 'Surprise Surprise', hosted by Cilla Black, complete with violins and all that schmaltz.

All you fellow Brits out there will know what I am babbling on about - if you are old enough to remember the show of course.

On a more serious note - it would be interesting to collate these tales of long-lost 'Holocau$t' victims being found - it would make for a very interesting and informative anthology. Given the number of such reunions, it would also kick a bit out of the theory firmly fixed in the public mindset that these events are mere one-offs. There must be thousands of so-called 'victims' who have suddenly been found.
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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 3:53 pm)

My advise to anyone who wishes to introduce a revisionists view of the holocaust to a person or persons.

(i) Keep your introduction on this topic short, about one minute, speak very simply, no details, and speak slowly and softly. Don’t be aggressive or condescending in your approach. These holocausters, in general, are not bad people, nor stupid. They just don’t know anything. They are just like you and I were a few years ago. Keep your sense of humor.

(ii) Let you audience get involved in the process of finding the truth. Ask questions of them such as “ Why do you believe? Why do you think? Let them explain their beliefs. Answer their questions carefully and honestly; don’t put them down. Or better still just keep asking them questions that lead them to the truth. Let them figure out the truth on their own. Don’t be too anxious to tell them your truth for people are more tempted to believe what they discover on their own than anything you could tell them. You might recommend a great book or website to read.

(iii) Let your audience think. Let them digest what you have to say. Say little and ask a great deal. It is of no use to rush forward with 10 or 20 great reasons why you believe the way you do if they don’t even believe your first reason. The believers will be shocked so don’t overwhelm them with too much detail even when asked. However learn as much as you can so that when asked you can give them honest, quick, short answers. Don’t preach.

(iii) Be prepared for all sorts of reasons why they believe the way they do. Be prepared to learn for you probably don’t have all the answers either. The search for the truth is not easy nor in a straight line. Admit that you do not know all the answers but are fully prepared to look for them with or without their help.

(iv) Don’t expect to be able to answer all their questions for some of these people will ask difficult questions of you. The most difficult will be the most basic such as why where the Jews put in concentration camps in the first place. Learn, for example, about the Russian revolution and the enormous scare it was to Europe and America. Learn about the crucial role of Jews in the communist revolution. Learn about their role in its theory but also in its ruthless application. Learn about the Jewish led secret police, the gulags, the murder of thousands of priest and nuns and the destruction of the thousand of Christian churches. Learn about the Jewish led communist battle for Europe took place before and after WW2. Most people will be shocked to learn that the Jews ran many European countries after WW2. Read Michael Hoffman for a quick nasty read. The more you can learn about the truth about rise of Communism, of Nazism, of Zionism, of FDR, American and Candadian inernment camps in both wars, of Churchill, Stalin, Hitler, and WW1 the better you will be able to see the big picture and how the world got into the mess it is in.

Examples of questions

(a) In trying to prove that there is no way that 10, 000 people could have been cremated at Auschwitz every day for two years you could ask them the following questions.

Q1: How many people do you think were cremated per day in the camps?
A1: They claim 10,000

Q2:How many pounds of wood or coke would it take to cremate a hundred pound person? A2:500 pounds of wood or 50 pounds of coke.

Q3:How many pounds of wood or coke would be required everyday then?
A3: 10, 000 people times 500 pounds equals 500, 000 pounds or 2, 500 tons of wood or 250 tons of coke every day.

Q4.Have you ever heard of the army of woodcutters, enormous piles of wood, or wood-trains that would be needed for such an adventure? Don’t tell them what they should think. Just get them thinking.


Q5: How many pounds of ash would this cremation produce per day?
A4 At 10 pounds per body ( wood, human ash) this comes to 10,000 people times 10pounds or 100, 000 pounds or 50 tons of ash of ash per day.

Q6 Where did the ash go? Have you ever heard of any eyewitness mentioning this? Let them draw their own conclusions. Don’t tell them what they should think. Just get them thinking.


(b) In trying to prove that Treblinka is a lie. You may ask them the following.

(i) Q1: How was the gas produced at Treblinka? A2: Old tank or submarine engines.
Q2 What is the by-product of these engines? A2 Carbon dioxide is the by-product of diesel engines.
Q3 Do you think it is poisonous? A3 It stinks and is dirty but it is actually harmless.
No further questions needed.

(c) Or some quickies.
(i) Statement. In a particular nasty scene described in the eye-witness book “Treblinka” a huge pile of dead bodies “ always with the strongest at the top” was always found “without exception: upon opening the gas chambers. You may ask them …

Q1 If they think carbon monoxide, the alleged killer, is lighter than air? A1 It is.
Q2 Why the strongest people would fight to get to the top of the pile for isn’t that where the light poisonous gas would be? No further questions are needed.

(ii) Eli Wiesel, who spent 2 years at Auschwitz, never mentioned gas chambers in his first book?
(ii) Why there were no bodies nor bullets ever found at Babi Yar?

Good luck. Keep your cool.
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 6:51 pm)

Hi Barrington,

Nice ideas. I liked what you said, but I don't think Treblinka ever had that pyramid pile of bodies thing with the strongest climbing to the top. That was Auschwitz. However HCN gas is lighter than air but only slightly. With Treblinka, the story is they were packed in extremely tight so there was nowhere to fall.

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 02, 2005 8:04 pm)

Hi Carlo's Cutlass Supreme- I don't have "Treblinka " before me but I am quite sure that I read about the "piles of bodies" in that book. The "eye witness" told of forcing the Jews to run to the showers, etc, etc. I believed every word of it at the time. I don't recall reading "Auschwitz". I also believed Babi Yar...Perhaps that's why I pick on those two books now...Hate to think I have been picking on the wrong book...for the wrong reasons..
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:30 am)

Hey Barrington,

Who wrote those two books?

Both Treblinka and Auschwitz had the people thinking they were going to take a shower. Then Treblinka used diesel exhaust, and Auschwitz used zyklon B.

I saw the pyramid pile account on World at War episode 20 available for download here on this site (Remember that show!?, it was all over the tv when I was a kid) but they were talking about Auschwitz.

Treblinka also has the really small room chambers. As in "small room" like a small bedroom size, but multiple small rooms.

Auschwitz chambers were much larger.

I'm writing this like I'm a believer or something. lol.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:48 am)

Will anyone actually put these ideas into motion? Will this project ever happen? I'm happy to put time in to help coordinate and come up with ideas and strategy and to gather information, but having been a non-believer now for little more than 2 months and having no web design skills it's rather beyond me.

How more important could something be? We could be helping to remove the root cause of the main problems that the world faces today, and I don't think I'm going overboard with that statement.

Look at http://www.ushmm.org/ and how authoritative it appears. You'll believe anything it tells you.

Revisionists need to be more pro-active when it comes to working for the minds of the public with projects of a quality equal to those put out constantly by the other side. The web is a level playing ground where we can match them with quality presentation and let our superior factual content speak for itself.


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