Documenting real events compared to UFO tales

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TMoran
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Documenting real events compared to UFO tales

Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:25 am)

For the Holocaust story there are perhaps some hundreds of tales and reports that tell about alleged mass graves of Jews killed by the Germans. Almost all the reports originated out of Bolshevik Russia.

One of these reports was about how the Germans killed some 4,000 Poles at the Katyn forest. Darn thing was about 200 pages long and found its way into the Nuremburg trials.

But then something went amiss. It turned out that the Germans had been directed to the forest by the Poles and there they found the mass graves and they went on to do a forensic excavation.

The German report was and is so slam dunk that the Russians eventually had to admit to being the ones that had committed the mass extermination.

This is what the documentation shows the Germans did and how they went about establishing credibility:

In addition to commentary the German report includes scores of photos of the forensic investigation.

Aerial shots of the graves as they were being uncovered and the bodies being disinterred.

Photos of Polish civilians in trenches digging out the bodies.

Close up photos of the hands of the victims tied behind their backs.

Photos of many skulls showing the results of the general mode of execution - a shot in the back of the head.

Photos of the bodies laid out for attempted identification.

Photos of personal belongings found on the victims.

Photos of the field lab set up by the Germans.

Photos of Western Allied journalists invited in by the Germans to witness the excavation and view the determining evidence such as identifications. letters and other documents found on the bodies that determined the date of the massacres.

Photos of Western Allied forensic experts viewing the same thing.

Photos of Western Allied POW military officers witnessing the proceeding.


======================

Here's some excerpt from an account of what the Russians say they found for German massacres. It was recently posted to this board by an admirer of Max.

"Excellent posts, Max!

Let me add an excerpt from the report of a Soviet investigation commission in Zhitomir, 5 to 16.02.1944."

Source: West German criminal trial procedure Js 4/65 GstA Frankfurt/Main, Russian files, Volume 1, quoted in Klee/Dressen, "Gott mit uns": Der deutsche Vernichtungskrieg in Osten 1939-1945, pages 31 and following. What follows is my translation of the German text, which is a translation of the Russian original.

Quote:
"The commission of forensic medical experts, composed of: professor Voronyj Ju., the physicians Stoliza, B., Iskra F.I., Skalkij M.N., in the presence of the Representative of the Extraordinary State Commission, Candidate of Law Vjel’nikov D.G, the members of the Zhitomior Regional Support Commission: the Reverend Father Feodot Tysljukjevich, Kharchenko, K.S., Colonel Shapovalov. Roshanchuk N.M. and a great number of local inhabitants, established that the fascist German occupants and their helpers shot local inhabitants at the following places:

1) 500 meters to the south of the factory [German: Vorwerk] Dovshik, which is located in the forest 10 kilometres away from the city of Zhitomir, two shooting sites and places of burial for corpses were found.

At first two places were found along the way ... Six graves were found, from which 962 human corpses of both sexes and various ages were exhumed. Then ... an area of two hectares was found which was fenced in by wire three meters high among which thick oak branches had been woven which couldn’t be looked through from the outside. On this area 13 graves were found, ... When the graves were opened a male corpse, the rests of a corpse partially eaten by fire and a huge number of human bones were found. During the exhumation a strong smell of corpses was noticeable.

The witnesses present at the exhumation stated that at the location ... Eyewitnesses had observed that during one month smoke had gone up from the fenced-in place, ...

The commission of forensic medical experts reached the conclusion that on the mentioned area burials and later exhumations and burning of human corpses, not less than 20,000 in number, had taken place. ...
When opening the graves 14,110 corpses were found. There was found a whole grave full of bodies that were completely unclad. ... "


The following is the documentation outside of the words that shows the account is credible -

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Postby Juan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Jun 24, 2004 6:04 pm)

Well, what's the conclusion, is this soviet report credible or not?

Can I look the "documentation" of their findings?

Were there impartial observers?

Where are the excavated mass graves?

I think your post finished somewhat abruptly.

Thank you

Juan

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:22 am)

Well, what's the conclusion, is this soviet report credible or not?
Can I look the "documentation" of their findings?
Were there impartial observers?
Where are the excavated mass graves?
I think your post finished somewhat abruptly.

Thank you
Juan

=================


Sorry for the confusion Juan. When I left off the reference to the documentation with a '-' I intended it to be taken there was nothing. There was and is no documentation. Just words on a piece of paper written by someone.

The only real credible documentation for an investigation of any mass grave of WWII is, of course, the one the Germans did at the Katyn forest.

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Postby Juan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Jun 25, 2004 11:23 am)

Got it :)

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Zhitomir

Postby David » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:30 pm)

Why not go there and test the ground with radar, or the Iron test that "neocon" recently wrote about.

If revisionists did this, they would convince more than thier own choir.
Write Germar Rudolf and suggest he look into this. Maybe Cole can do another field test.

Otherwise I believe the report.
-D

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 04, 2004 1:56 pm)

'Believe' in what you wish, but the facts are that there is no evidence to support your beliefs.

It's really revealing when a Communist 'report' without forensic physical evidence is somehow considered acceptable.

Allegations of a wholly ('holy' for some) physical nature as large as those contained within the 'holocaust' story without the actual physical evidence simply destroys the fraudulent storyline.

The 'holocau$t' Industry is deathly afraid to search for real forensic evidence and we know why. It's not there, they know it, and you (David) cannot show it to us.

No mass graves as alleged, no 'holocaust' as alleged.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Zhitomir

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 04, 2004 2:02 pm)

David wrote:Why not go there and test the ground with radar, or the Iron test that "neocon" recently wrote about.

If revisionists did this, they would convince more than thier own choir.
Write Germar Rudolf and suggest he look into this. Maybe Cole can do another field test.

Otherwise I believe the report.
-D
Engineer Krege did his ground penetrating radar tests in Treblinka and Belzec on the sly.
Question:
Would the Polish and Russian authorities (and the Jews) permit anyone to do such tests at the various sites?

fge

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check zhitomir

Postby David » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 04, 2004 5:43 pm)

Probably not Sailor. So they ought to do it on the sly like Krege.

Check it out. Do the tests on the sly and be done with it. You can't lose if they really aren't there. It'd show revisionism isn't just a bunch of denying, but a proactive movement.

-D

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Postby kk » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Oct 20, 2004 10:19 pm)

Let's try to be more rational.

FACT 1 : One can not prove that something does not exist or never happened.
This is an unescapeable law of logic.
FACT 2 : The burden of the proof lies always on the affirmative party.
That means that the believers have to prove their claims,
not the other way 'round.

WE will be ALL happy to admit we were wrong, if you can prove so.
It is as simple as this, dear David.


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