The Mystery of the Auschwitz Shoes

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Ajax
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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:33 pm)

Afternoon folks...

Well we seem to have switched from the shoes to the hair, but it's all part of the same legend so what the hell, eh? ;)

The hair issue has always been something that has troubled me when reading the eye-witness accounts. Some have said that the hair was cut prior to 'gassing', while others have said it was cut after the messy process had been undertaken (which would have meant cutting and bagging hair soaked in sweat, urine, excrement and Zyklon-B - ugh!)

Of course what really happened can be seen in a most unexpected place - the epic 'holocaust' film Schindler's List. Here we see the new arrivals all lined up expecting to meet their doom, only to have their hair cut and have a hot shower before being assigned to work duties. Spielberg the revisionist? You've got to wonder... :)
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Postby Reviso » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:44 pm)

If I could understand the passage of Ann Carol Lee, the shoes weren't shoes of inmates, they came from whole Germany for recuperation of pieces.

Is this not very interesting ?

Reviso.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:19 pm)

Reviso wrote:If I could understand the passage of Ann Carol Lee, the shoes weren't shoes of inmates, they came from whole Germany for recuperation of pieces.

Is this not very interesting ?


This is indeed interesting Reviso, and in all my years is something that has never struck me before. And yet it makes a great deal of sense.

We know they talk a lot of cobblers, but the Jews were pretty good at it, weren't they? Shoemaking that is. And in Auschwitz there was a nice supply of Jewish labour, wasn't there? We have long heard about people being selected for specific work on account of their skill in some field - dressmakers, tailors, and... shoemakers. It is highly likely that at Auschwitz the Germans would have gathered together a fine array of Jewish shoemakers, so it woud have made perfect sense to recycle old shoes and boots sent from the rest of the country there to be repaired. Given the number of army boots that would have been needed to be repaired, there would have been thousands of items of footwear in constant need for repair, resoling, etc.

Maybe the Auschwitz shoe story isn't so complicated after all...
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Postby Reviso » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:34 pm)

I'm glad you find it intersting.

I think the books of Ann Carol Lee on Anne Frank are worth reading. Lee is no revisionist, but she brings a little bit new stuff.

Her explanation of the mountains of shoes is perhaps worth quoting in The Revisionist ?

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Postby antirev1956 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:13 pm)

I agree that hair and shoes don't prove much either way. Do you think they are used to prove gassings?
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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:23 pm)

Antirev:

I agree that hair and shoes don't prove much either way. Do you think they are used to prove gassings?


Hair and shoes are major icons that are supposed to prove the Holocaust story. The story has it by way of various 'eyewitnesses' and SS confessions the Germans would stuff mattresses with hair, make socks out of it, blankets and a lot more products, that it was shipped around the country side by the rail car loads. The story by way of some testimony has shoes piled 75 feet high. That would be about 6 stories high. Welcome to Holocaust 'facts'.

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Postby Juan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:42 pm)

Hi Antirev.

I suggest you invest some time reading old threads here, checking the links, etc.

All revisionists were believers once.

Greetings,

Juan

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Postby antirev1956 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:58 am)

TMoran, I agree the hair and shoes are icons, symbols of the Holocaust. but are they used to prove gassings?

Juan, thanks! :D
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 10, 2005 2:56 am)

I agree the hair and shoes are icons, symbols of the Holocaust. but are they used to prove gassings?


They are used as a power of suggestion after the false premise of homicidal gassings has been made. That has the effect of 'proving' gassings in the minds of a preconditioned populace.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Reviso » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:02 pm)

Hannover wrote:[
They are used as a power of suggestion after the false premise of homicidal gassings has been made. That has the effect of 'proving' gassings in the minds of a preconditioned populace.

- Hannover


Example :

http://www.uncg.edu/gar/courses/lixl/21 ... sson12.htm

"Soviet soldiers were among the first to liberate concentration camps in the final stages of the war. On July 23, 1944, they entered the Majdanek camp in Poland, and several other Nazi killing centers. In January 1945, they entered Auschwitz and liberated hundreds of exhausted and starving prisoners. The Germans had abandoned these prisoners, as well as the belongings of thousands of victims: 348,820 men's suits, 836,255 women's coats, and tens of thousands of pairs of shoes."

Reviso.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 10, 2005 1:11 pm)

The Germans had abandoned these prisoners .....

A lie.

Fact:
They were given a choice to stay or retreat with the SS, thousands chose to leave with the oh so evil SS. And the remainder the were left behind so they could tell the world about the 'secret' exterminations. Pathetic.

The Believers can't keep their lies straight.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: The Mystery of the Auschwitz Shoes

Postby Reviso » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:19 pm)

In a preceding post, I wrote :

In the book of Carol Ann Lee : "Anne Frank : a biography" (1999), French translation "Anne Frank, les secrets d'une vie", p. 237, about Anne and Margot Frank at Auschwitz : "on les avait affectées au hangar à chaussures, d'anciennes granges où s'entassaient de vieux souliers venus de toute l'Allemagne. Elles devaient (...) mettre de côté les pièces réutilisables."
I translate the translation : "They were posted to the shed with the shoes, former barns where old shoes from whole Germany piled up. Their task was (...) to put aside the pieces that could be utilized again."

I was wrong when I said that this happened in Auschwitz, it was in Bergen-Belsen.

Nick Terry has written on the JREF forum : "The prime evidence of genocide at Majdanek, btw, wasn't the gas chambers. It was the enormous piles of hundreds of thousands of shoes. That's what led to a 1.5 million death toll estimate (which was accurate for all the Reinhard camps, go figure)."
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost8573698

Could it be possible that old shoes from whole Germany were also recycled in Majdanek ?

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Re: The Mystery of the Auschwitz Shoes

Postby Hannover » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:44 pm)

Nick Terry has written on the JREF forum : "The prime evidence of genocide at Majdanek, btw, wasn't the gas chambers. It was the enormous piles of hundreds of thousands of shoes. That's what led to a 1.5 million death toll estimate (which was accurate for all the Reinhard camps, go figure)."
http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php? ... ost8573698


Truly a desperate claim. People wore shoes and like clothing, worn shoes were gathered and recycled. Of course shoes were placed in piles. I also have no doubt that the Soviet communists, who were known for their embarrassing ploys, added a few for their own purposes.

More on Majdanek from David Cole's: 46 UNANSWERED QUESTIONS REGARDING 'GAS CHAMBERS, which I doubt Nick Terry allows his students to read.
http://codoh.com/library/document/987

excerpt:
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AT THE MAJDANEK CONCENTRATION CAMP (POLAND)

27) Gas chamber 1 has two doors, both of which open INTO the gas chamber room. How can a homicidal gas chamber have two doors which open IN? Wouldn't the bodies be pressed up against the doors, as described numerous times by eyewitnesses?

28- The main door into the gas chamber 1 has no locks. It can be opened from either the inside or the outside. There are no holes or fittings where a lock might have been. What stopped the inmates from opening this door?

29) Gas chamber 1 has a plate glass window in it. There are no holes or fittings around the window where bars or any other kind of cover might once have been. Since the plaster around the window is covered with blue stains, we know that it is the plaster that existed during the time Zyklon B gas was used in this room. If there WERE bars or any other type of cover attached to this window, why are there no traces? What would have stopped the inmates from trying to climb out the window, or breaking the window and causing a gas leak?

30) There is a room INSIDE gas chamber 1. Why would there be a separate room INSIDE a gas chamber? Doesn't this room indicate that gas chamber 1 was used for something OTHER than killing people?

31) Gas chambers 2 and 3 are designed backwards. Chamber 2 has a Zyklon B induction hole in the ceiling, but no Zyklon B traces or blue stains. Chamber 3 has heavy, floor-to-ceiling Zyklon B traces and blue stains, but no Zyklon B induction hole. And, like the roof of Krema 2 at Auschwitz, the ceiling shows no sign of a hole having ever been there. Why would chamber 2 have a Zyklon B induction hole and no traces, and chamber 3 plenty of traces but no hole?

32) The ceilings in chambers 2 and 4 are low enough so that the Zyklon B induction holes could have been blocked by the victims. What would have stopped the inmates from blocking the holes?

33) The doors to chambers 2,3 and 4 are built to latch from the outside AND the inside. The latches can be opened from either side. Does this suggest that the rooms were used for something other than killing people?

34) Getting back to the issue of hemispherical grids covering the peepholes, it is said that the point of these grids was to prevent the inmates from breaking the glass of the peepholes and causing a gas leak. Yet the hemispherical grids attached to the peepholes on the doors of chambers 2, 3 and 4 are attached on the OUTSIDE of the doors. These grids wouldn't prevent someone INSIDE the room from breaking the glass... but they WOULD prevent someone OUTSIDE the room from doing so. Why are the grids not on the inside? Does this contradict with the statements by Pressac and the eyewitnesses regarding the need for girds in a homicidal gas chamber?

35) The Majdanek camp is built on a hill. At the top of the hill is the camp crematorium. At the opposite end of the camp, at the bottom of the hill, is the "Bath and Disinfection" complex, which houses the gas chambers. From the Nazi's point of view, what was the wisdom in putting the gas chambers at the opposite end of the camp from the ovens, and at the bottom of the hill (after each gassing, the dead bodies would have to have been dragged up the hill, the length of the entire camp, to the ovens)?

36) As the Nazis were preparing to abandon the Majdanek camp, they destroyed the crematorium building. Why were the gas chambers not similarly destroyed? Why would the Nazis leave their weapons of mass murder intact for the world to see? How hard would it have been for the Nazis to destroy the gas chambers, just like they did the crematorium building? At least, shouldn't the Nazis have filled in the Zyklon B induction holes, which serve as direct proofs of homicidal gassings? Either way, the destruction of the crematorium is clear proof that the Nazis had both the time and the ability to demolish buildings in the camp if they wanted to. Why were the gas chambers not demolished?

37) In his book "Auschwitz: Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers", Jean-Claude Pressac publishes a photo of the Majdanek gas chambers, with the caption "Photograph taken at the Majdanek concentration camp in June 1979, showing one of the disinfestation gas chambers thought to be a homicidal gas chamber." On page 555, he also has this to say about the Majdanek gas chambers: "I am sorry to say, and I am not the only one in the West, that the Majdanek homicidal and/or delousing gas chambers are still waiting for a true historian, which is mildly upsetting in view of the fact that the camp fell into the hands of the Russians intact in 1944." Do these comments suggest that the gas chambers at Majdanek may in fact have been disinfestation gas chambers? At least, don't these comments suggest that there has not yet been a thorough investigation into the purpose of these rooms? *

38 ) To sum up the Majdanek gas chamber issue: If we take Pressac's comments and then factor in the doors that don't lock, the doors that open INTO the gas chamber, the doors with latches that can be manipulated from both the outside AND the inside, the window in gas chamber 1, the room inside gas chamber 1, the lack of any Zyklon B induction hole in gas chamber 3, the lack of any Zyklon B traces in gas chamber 2 (which DOES have a "Zyklon B induction hole"), the heavy blue stains on the OUTSIDE of the building, and the location of the building, at the bottom of a hill, at the opposite end of the camp from the crematorium, is it reasonable to suggest that these rooms were delousing chambers?

* In what can only be considered an unfortunate example of how major disputes between Holocaust historians are shielded from the public, the same room Pressac describes in his book as a "disinfestation gas chamber" is featured in the book "The World Must Know", the official book of the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington D.C., written by Museum director Dr. Michael Berenbaum. In that book, Berenbaum describes the room as a HOMICIDAL gas chamber and, what's more, a CASTING of this room was made for display AT THE MUSEUM, as PROOF of the homicidal gas chambers! Thus, in both Berenbaum's book AND in the Museum itself, the ONLY material proof given of homicidal gassings is THIS ROOM, a room Pressac staunchly believes to be a disinfestation gas chamber (in fact, in his Auschwitz book, Pressac actually RIDICULES those who say that this Majdanek room is proof of homicidal gassings, and criticizes everyone from the man who prosecuted Faurisson in France to the Majdanek State Museum personnel for perpetuating a fraud).

But does anyone give a damn that the general public, all the millions, might be receiving fraudulent information? Some might suggest that disputes such as these should be kept private so as not to shake the public's confidence in Holocaust history, or in the Holocaust historians. But don't you think we have a RESPONSIBILITY not to knowingly feed the public falsehoods or unproven claims disguised as unquestioned facts? Don't you think we have a responsibility to be honest about our research? If not, what makes us any different from the "historians" of the Soviet Union, or Hitler's Germany, who knowingly tailored their research to produce a politically expedient conclusion? When the ends begin justifying the means, watch integrity go flying out the window.

As bad as the public misinformation about Majdanek is, the Stalin-esque purging of Pressac's "Auschwitz; Technique and Operation of the Gas Chambers" from the official record is worse. This master-work of historiography, once loudly heralded in the press (see enclosed clippings), is NOW nowhere to be found when references to Pressac are made. A recent article in "Publishers Weekly", detailing a forthcoming U.S. Holocaust Museum book containing 29 original essays from Holocaust scholars including Berenbaum and Pressac, not only neglects to mention Pressac's gas chamber book, but seems to suggest that Pressac's conversion from revisionist to gas chamber believer came only recently, as he was researching his just-published "slim volume" about the Auschwitz crematorium. The entire period of the 1980's, which Pressac spent researching his gas chamber book after his "conversion", is omitted.

Yet scholars around the world continue to use Pressac's gas chamber book (if they're lucky enough to have one of the few copies), mainly because, even if one disagrees with Pressac's conclusions, his book is STILL the best (and the only) single source for the blueprints, construction slips, alteration plans, and inter-office communiques regarding the Auschwitz "gas chambers". Neither side in this debate agrees entirely with Pressac...but for the gas chamber supporters, his book is an embarrassment because it IS so thorough. It is the most thorough work yet produced about the gas chambers, yet Pressac cannot find that elusive objective proof of gassings. So now, apparently, the historians have just decided to pretend the book doesn't exist. I've always referred to the Pressac gas chamber book as the most popular book that never existed!

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: The Mystery of the Auschwitz Shoes

Postby borjastick » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Sep 14, 2012 1:18 pm)

The Footwear Fakery from Ajax is spot on the money. Don't forget the fact that the display of all the shoes of the 'gassed' is a fake in itself in as much as the display looks like a large pile, but in fact it is a small volume piled on an angled shelf which gives the impression of much much more. The point about Monsieur Professor Nick Terry (doesn't he play footie for Chelsea and England?) claiming that the gas chambers at majdanek don't prove much but the pile of shoes does it all, is rather apposite today given his mangling of the truth, eh?
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Re: The Mystery of the Auschwitz Shoes

Postby Kingfisher » 7 years 5 months ago (Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:23 pm)

In wartime Britain clothes were rationed and scarce and naturally everything was recycled, so in Germany it would be the same in spades. Also shoes of that period were resoled and reheeled in normal use. A pair of uppers could be resoled more than once. Glasses are recycled today. They are collected for export to third world countries.

Whether the clothes and shoes in question were legitimately in the camps for recycling or were commandeered and planted by the Soviets, there is no mystery as to their provenance. Stocks would be available somewhere. Children's clothes and shoes would be especially available, since kids grow out of them while they are still in good condition.


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