banning political parties / more attacks on German democracy

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Hannover
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banning political parties / more attacks on German democracy

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:34 pm)

How can anyone call themselves a democratic country when opposition viewpoints are banned? Well, you can't. But that's what hapless shill, chancellor Schroeder wants.

Note the hollow, dumb, awkward use of 'neo-Nazi' thoroughout the article.

Be sure to catch "The NPD's rise, against a background of rising unemployment ...", which is meant to distract from the NPD's efforts at demanding a voice for all Germans, not just those that bow to the judeo-supremacists.

Also see that there is no mention of the NPD's specifc platform. Nope, the yellow journalists wouldn't dare do that, they don't want the average reader to see an agenda that may well be attractive and sensible. Smear, smear is the only tactic left to the desperate.

Catch the Coventry canard. Fact: Coventry was only bombed by the Germans in retaliation; months & months after the British began their intentional, illegal bombing of German civilian population centers.

Then there's the racist counter demonstration, "No Tears for Krauts". Ofcourse, it's illegal to say "No more lies from judeo-supremacists".

Read on, comments invited.

- Hannover
Schröder races to halt neo-Nazi 'funeral march' in Dresden

Luke Harding in Berlin
Friday February 11, 2005

Guardian

Germany's chancellor, Gerhard Schröder, said yesterday he would explore "every possibility" to ban the neo-Nazi National Democratic party, which plans to demonstrate in Dresden on Sunday during the 60th anniversary of the city's destruction.
In an interview with a Jewish newspaper, Mr Schröder said his government was now considering a fresh attempt to ban the party following the failure of a similar effort three years ago.

"I want my government to use every possibility to go down the road of a ban," he said. "But it must have a good chance of success."

The party, known by the initials NPD, stunned Germany's mainstream political establishment last year when it won 9.2% of the vote during state elections in Saxony. Since then the NPD's 12 new MPs have staged a series of stunts in the state parliament in Dresden - walking out last month during a minute's silence for victims of the Holocaust.

On Sunday around 5,000 NPD supporters are expected to hold a "funeral march" in Dresden to commemorate the 35,000 Germans killed during the destruction of the city on February 13-14 1945 by British and American bombers.

The NPD's 33-year-old leader, Holger Apfel, has described the allied attack as a "bombing-Holocaust" and "an act of gangster politics". The NPD's rise, against a background of rising unemployment, appears to have caught Germany's Social Democrat-led government unawares.

It has provoked a bitter dispute between Mr Schröder and the man he beat during Germany's last general election in 2002, Edmund Stoiber. Mr Stoiber, the minister president of Bavaria, this week accused the chancellor of failing to bring down unemployment, and driving voters towards the far right. Mr Schröder hit back angrily, describing Mr Stoiber as "malicious".

The chancellor is now urgently considering ways of preventing the NPD from marching through the Brandenburg Gate, Berlin's most famous monument, on May 8 - the 60th anniversary of the end of the second world war, and Berlin's liberation from the Nazis by the Red Army. The demonstration would take place only metres from a new Holocaust memorial.

"I am one of those who don't want to accept that people can demonstrate with far-right slogans at memorials for the victims of the Holocaust," Mr Schröder told the Jüdische Allgemeine, a Jewish weekly.

"I hope all the parties in parliament can unite on a change to the law," he said. His government has already tried to ban the NPD once, arguing that it incited hate crimes against foreigners and Jews. But in 2003, Germany's highest court refused to hear the case because the government cited inflammatory statements and writings by party members who were later unmasked as paid informers for the state.

"Another court defeat would only help the NPD," Mr Schröder admitted.

As well as the demonstration on Sunday by the neo-Nazi NPD, thousands of anti-fascists are expected to stage their own rival demonstration under the slogan "No Tears for Krauts".

Also in Dresden, the British ambassador in Germany, Sir Peter Torry, will attend a memorial ceremony in which representatives from Coventry will hand over a cross of nails to the people of Dresden.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/germany/artic ... 07,00.html


If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Free Minded » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 1:39 pm)

Dresden is twinned with Coventry, England - 380 dead in the entire war. Officially, on the news, the 35 000 dead are to be commemorated. Something is out of kilter. Is it that the Brits don't want to accept any responsibility for their actions. This seems to be a national trait nowadays.

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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:19 pm)

Given that we have been deep up to our eyeballs in 'holocaust' propaganda over the past month, I find the decision of the major UK television stations not to have *anything* about the Dresden firebombing a travesty. It fills me with a mixture of loathing, anger and utter bemusement. Instead Channel 5, usually pretty good for documentaries on WW2, are screening - guess what - Saving Private Ryan - a Spielberg epic.

You might have thought there might have been something - one miserable thing, maybe - on either Discovery, UK History or the History Channel - who plied us with hour after painful hour of 'holocaust' dirge - but nothing. We do have a two-hour special on the 14th called Hitler: the Rise of Evil, though.

And they call us 'deniers'... :roll:
Scour the surface throughly until it is glistening...

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 4:45 pm)

Ah, the journaille up to their usual tricks again. The Germans have never been allowed to publicly mourn their dead, the zionist's would utterly forbade it.

It has nothing to do with the British not wanting to accept any responsibility for their actions. Most British people would never even have heard of Dresden. It is to do with the zionist scum that control the media, they have to make sure most British people do not ever learn about Dresden, but at the same time be constantly reminded of the industry...They must always be the eternal victim, it is their bread and butter, without it they are finished. That's what it's about.

Everyone must get constant reminders and nourishment as to who the only and eternal victims are.


You might have thought there might have been something - one miserable thing, maybe - on either Discovery, UK History or the History Channel - who plied us with hour after painful hour of 'holocaust' dirge - but nothing. We do have a two-hour special on the 14th called Hitler: the Rise of Evil, though


Personally I cannot understand why you return to the zionist mind narrower time and time again, in the desperate hope of seeing something unbiased or truthful. How many times do you have to taste the deadly poison that spews from that one-eyed demagogue before you lose faith?

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 5:41 pm)

Catch the Coventry canard. Fact: Coventry was only bombed by the Germans in retaliation; months & months after the British began their intentional, illegal bombing of German civilian population centers.


It's time to put this myth to bed. Strategic bombing did not begin until 1942.

The pioneer in the air war against Germany was the RAF. The RAF experimented briefly in 1940 with daylight attacks on industrial targets in Germany but abandoned the effort when losses proved unbearably heavy. Thereafter, it attempted to find and attack such targets as oil, aluminum and aircraft plants at night. This effort too was abandoned; with available techniques it was not possible to locate the targets often enough. Then the RAF began its famous raids on German urban and industrial centers. On the night of May 30, 1942, it mounted its first "thousand plane" raid against Cologne and two nights later struck Essen with almost equal force. On three nights in late July and early August 1943 it struck Hamburg in perhaps the most devastating single city attack of the war -- about one third of the houses of the city were destroyed and German estimates show 60,000 to 100,000 people killed. No subsequent city raid shook Germany as did that on Hamburg; documents show that German officials were thoroughly alarmed and there is some indication from interrogation of high officials that Hitler himself thought that further attacks of similar weight might force Germany out of the war. The RAF proceeded to destroy one major urban center after another. Except in the extreme eastern part of the Reich, there is no major city that does not bear the mark of these attacks. However, no subsequent attack had the shock effect of the Hamburg raid.

In the latter half of 1944, aided by new navigational techniques, the RAF returned with part of its force to an attack on industrial targets. These attacks were notably successful but it is with the attacks on urban areas that the RAF is most prominently identified.


http://www.anesi.com/ussbs02.htm#eaocar


And the British bombing of Freiburg didn't happen either:

http://p093.ezboard.com/frodohforumfrm1 ... D=83.topic

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:16 pm)

Sorry Hebden, no cigar, you're quite wrong in spite of the strained/ tortured text you link to.

And yes, we know about 'strategic' bombing, but events of pre-1942 were not included in that joint Anglo-US plan.

The first civilian bombings were done by the British. This was long before the Germans were forced to retaliate. Read on.

- Hannover
http://www.fpp.co.uk/History/Churchill/ ... plies.html

..........the British, by their own admission, initiated unrestricted bombing of civilian areas ought to merit for them membership in the select society of "war criminals." The unbelieving reader need only consult the testimony of the British officials J. M. Spaight and Sir Arthur Harris, for incontrovertible proof of this charge.99 A decision of the British Air Ministry made on May 11, 1940, to attack targets in Western Germany instituted the practice of bombing purely civilian objectives. This "epoch-making event," as F. J. P. Veale correctly describes it, marked an ominous departure from the rule that hostilities are to be limited to operations against enemy military forces alone.100 Spaight, former Principal Secretary of the Air Ministry, makes the following amazing comment on the decision of May 11, 1940:
Because we were doubtful about the psychological effect of propagandist distortion of the truth that it was we who started the strategic bombing offensive, we have shrunk from giving our great decision of May 11, 1940, the publicity it deserves. That surely was a mistake. It was a splendid decision.101
But the "great decision," the "splendid decision" of May 11, 1940, which was ultimately to cost the lives of millions, including thousands of Mr. Spaight's own countrymen, was to have an even more grisly sequel, for, according to Sir Charles Snow who had charge of selecting scientific personnel for war research in Great Britain in World War II, F. A. Lindemann, a Cabinet member and confidant of Churchill, produced in early 1942 a remarkable Cabinet paper on the subject of the strategic bombing of Germany:
It described, in quantitative terms, the effect on Germany of a British bombing offensive in the next eighteen months (approximately March 1942-September 1943). The paper laid down a strategic policy. The bombing must be directed essentially against German working-class houses. Middle-class houses have too much space round them, and so are bound to waste bombs ...102
One wonders if it was the cultivated humanitarianism inherent in this decision to assure the death of more working class Germans per bomb which entitled the Allies, and in particular the British, to sit in moral judgment on German leaders at Nuremberg in 1946!
99. J. M. Spaight, Bombing Vindicated (London: Geoffrey Bles, Ltd., 1944) and Sir Arthur Harris, bomber Offensive (London: Collins, 1947).
100. F. J. P. Veale, Advance to Barbarism (Apppleton: C. C. Nelson Publishing Company, 1953), p. 122.
101. Spaight, op. cit., p. 7.
102. C. P. Snow, Science and Government (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1961), p. 48.

Letter to PBS on fraudulent 'documentary' about the 'Blitz'

Dr. A.R. WESSERLE
16 March 1981
PBS Television "The Blitz"

Sirs:

Rarely have I come across a television broadcast more vicious in intent and more warped in execution than your recent "Blitz on Britain." As a survivor of the mass air raid executed against my native city of Prague, Bohemia, on the Christian Holy Day of Palm Sunday, 1945, by the Anglo-American strategic bomber force - a raid that maimed or murdered thousands a few seconds before the conclusion of the Second World War - I say this:

1. There can be no comparison between the brutality of the Anglo-American bomber offensive, on one hand, and the minimality of the German-Italian efforts, on the other. As the commander of the British strategic air offensive, Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris shows in his Bomber Offensive (Macmillan, New York, 1947) 23 German cities had more than 60 percent of their built-up area destroyed; 46 had half of it destroyed. 31 communities had more than 500 acres obliterated: Berlin, 6427 acres: Hamburg, 6200 acres; Duesseldorf, 2003; Cologne (through air attack), 1994. By contrast, the three favorite targets of the Luftwaffe: London, Plymouth and Coventry, had 600 acres, 400, and just over 100 acres destroyed.

2. Anglo-American strategic bombers, according to official sources of the West German government in 1962, dropped 2,690,000 metric tons of bombs on Continental Europe; 1,350,000 tons were dropped on Germany within its 1937 boundaries; 180,000 tons on Austria and the Balkans; 590,000 tons on France; 370,000 tons on Italy; and 200,000 tons on miscellaneous targets such as Bohemia, Slovakia and Poland. By contrast, Germany dropped a total of 74,172 tons of bombs as well as V-1 and V-2 rockets and "buzz bombs" on Britain - five percent of what the Anglo-Saxons rained down on Germany. The Federal German Government has established the minimum count - not an estimate - of 635,000 German civilians were killed in France, Italy, Rumania, Hungary, Czecheslovakia, and elsewhere.

3. Both Germany and Britain initiated air raids on naval and military targets as of 3 September 1939. However, when the British attacks on port installations in Northern Germany ended in disaster, with a devastating majority of bombers downed - the Battle of the German Bight - Britain switched over to less costly night air raids on civilian targets such as Berlin and the Ruhr industrial region. By contrast, Germany replied in kind only in the winter months of 1940/41, a year later. Observers indubitably British, such as the late Labour Minister Crossman, the scientist and writer C.P. Snow, and the Earl of Birkenhead, have demonstrated that it was not Germany but Britain that, after May, 1940, unleashed an official policy of unrestricted and unlimited raids on civilian populations under its new Prime Minister, Winston Churchill, and his science advisor, Dr. Lindemann. Professor Lindemann, the later Viscount Cherwell, coolly calculated that, by using a force of 10,000 heavy bombers to attack and destroy the 58 largest German cities, one-third of the population of Germany would be "de-housed." The assumption, of course, also was that out of those 25-27 million homeless at least ten percent - 2.5 to 3 million people - would be killed. On this score alone, Winston Churchill and his advisors deserve to rank among the maddest mass murderers in history. In fact, as West German records show, 131 German towns were hit by heavy strategic raids. Only the courage of the Luftwaffe pilots, the effectiveness of the air defense network and the strength of the fire fighting organization worked together to prevent a bloodbath to the extent envisioned by the Prime Minister.

4. Blood baths did occur when conditions were right. When the Anglo-American bombing policy reached its first grand climax in a raid on Hamburg that stretched over several days and nights in July, 1943, a minimum of 40,000 to 50,000 civilians burned to death. With the defensive power of the Reich worn down in the second half of 1944 and in 1945, the Anglo-Saxons indulged in ever more massive extermination raids against Europe. Communities of little or no military value, even if attacked previously, were now pulverized, preferably under conditions of the utmost horror. Christian holy days, and dates and sites of famous art festivals were select occasions for raids. Many of the most beautiful cities of Europe and the world were systematically pounded into nothingness, often during the last weeks of the war, among them: Wuerzburg, Hildesheim, Darmstadt, Kassel, Nürnberg, Braunschweig. Little Pforzheim in south-west Germany had 17,000 people killed. Dresden, one of the great art centers and in 1945 a refuge for perhaps a million civilians, was decimated with the loss of at least 100,000 souls. Europe from Monte Cassino to Luebeck and Rostock on the Baltic, from Caen and Lisieux in France to Pilsen, Prague, Bruenn, Budapest and Bucharest reeled under the barbaric blows of the bombers.

5. Nor did the extermination raids stop with Europe. Cigar-chomping General Curtis LeMay demonstrated in. the Far East that record kills could be achieved without resort to atomic weapons. By applying the lessons learned in Europe to the wooden architecture of the Asian mainland and Japan he raised "fire storms" which surpassed even those of Hamburg, n Japanese civilians were killed through bombing. Millions of others fell victim to it, from Mukden, Manchuria, to Rangoon, Burma. It goes without saying that LeMay and his colleagues could not have carried out their campaigns of mass annihilation without the backing of the highest political leaders in the land. In fact, the United States Government had placed orders for the immediate development of four-engined, superheavy, very-long-range bombers (the XB 15, the B-17, the XB 19, the B-24 and the B-29) starting in 1934. Thus, the Roosevelt Administration had begun to lay plans for offensive, strategic, global war back in 1933, the year of its inception. With the later exception of Britain, none of the other "large" powers followed suit: neither France, Italy and Germany, nor Soviet Russia and Japan the latter with extensive holdings in the Pacific. These are sobering facts. PBS, with its record of fine programming, has much to lose if it insists on presenting biassed reports such as "Blitz on Britain" or "UXB." If you care to tap the unplumbed depths of sentimentality, envy and hatred, start a comic strip. In the meantime, we'll change channels.
Give poor Alistair Cooke, who has been mightily discomfited of late, a much-needed respite.

Sincerely, Dr. A.R. Wesserle

Source: Reprinted from The Journal of Historical Review, vol. 2, no. 4, pp. 381-384.

In addition:
“As early as 1953 H.M. Stationary Office published the first volume of a work ‘The Royal Air Force’, 1939-1945 entitled ‘The Fight at Odds’, a book described as “officially commissioned and based throughout on official documents which had been read and approved by the Air Ministry Historical Branch.” The author , Mr. Dennis Richards, states plainly the destruction of oil plants and factories was only a secondary purpose of the British air attacks on Germany which began in May 1940. The primary purpose of these raids was to goad the Germans into undertaking reprisal raids of a similar character on Britain. Such raids would arouse intense indignation in Britain against Germany and so create a war psychosis without which it is impossible to carry on a modern war. Mr Dennis Richards writes: “If the Royal Air Force raided the Ruhr, destroying oil plants with it’s most accurately placed bombs and urban property with those that went astray, the outcry for retalliation against Britain might prove too strong for the German generals to resist. The attack on the Ruhr, in other words, was an informal invitation to the Luftwaffe to bomb London “. p. 122

This passage merely confirmed what Mr. Spaight had so incautiously disclosed in 1944 in his by then forgotten book ‘Bombing Vindicated’. The popular belief that Hitler started unrestricted bombing still persisted and is, in fact, widely held at present day.

The third and last phase of the British air offensive against Germany began in March 1942 with the adoption of the Lindemann Plan by the British War Cabinet, and continued until the end of the war in May, 1945. The bombing during this period was not, as the Germans complained, indiscriminate. On the contrary, it was concentrated on working-class houses because, as professor Lindemann maintained, a higher percentage of bloodshed per ton of explosives dropped could be expected from bombing houses built close together, rather than by bombing higher class houses surrounded by gardens.”

source: ‘Advance to Barbarism - the Development of Total Warfare’, by F.J.P. Veale, p.184-185
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:36 pm)

A decision of the British Air Ministry made on May 11, 1940, to attack targets in Western Germany instituted the practice of bombing purely civilian objectives.


Then all you need do is tell us which targets in which cities were hit on May 11 and after by RAF bombers.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:02 am)

Sorry old boy, I have words from the horses mouth about May, 1940 bombings of German civilians by the British. Perhaps you could contact them and asked which German civilian centers were illegally targeted first, it's not my responsibility. Good try though. I note your lack of refutation.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:10 am)

Hebden wrote:
A decision of the British Air Ministry made on May 11, 1940, to attack targets in Western Germany instituted the practice of bombing purely civilian objectives.


Then all you need do is tell us which targets in which cities were hit on May 11 and after by RAF bombers.


In the night from May 11, to May 12, 1940 some suburbs of Mönchengladbach (Niederrhein) were attacked. 4 civilian died (including one Briton - I do not type in a smilie here!). This was the first air raid attack against a purely civilian target during WW2.

Before that the Britons as well as the Italians had attacked civilian targets beginning in the 20s in Africa and Asia (for example in Iraq- sound like yesterday). The plannings of the strategic air force had begun 1919 immediately after WW1. It did not have anything to do with Hitler or German attacks against London.

Here are the first strategic war crime attacks against German cities in WW2:

17.5.40: Hamburg, Bremen
22.5.40: Merseburg
6.6.40: Hamburg
14.6.40: Konstanz
17.6.40: Köln
18.6.40: Ruhrgebiet
19.6.40: Hamburg, Münster
20.6.40: Rheinland (here they wanted to kill my mother, I better stop)
...

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:22 am)

The British didn't do nothing for 6 months, they just bombed Germany.

Another source on all this is John Kenneth Galbraith, who was an official expert on strategic bombing, he drew up an official report on it for the US government after the war, and one of his conclusions was not only that, but that the mass bombings of population centres actually helped the German war effort because everything bombed was of no importance, when the British bombed all the restaurants and hotels the workers all went to work in the armaments industries. Many writers have remarked on this, strategic bombing was a failure. Another source is C.P. Snow, SCIENCE AND GOVERNMENT.

I am going to check further into all this.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 8:57 am)

This is the list for 1940:

Date, City, # of bombs, # of victims (if known)
11./12. Mai Mönchengladb. 37 4
15./16. Mai Ruhrgebiet 99
17./18. Mai HAMBURG 48 34
Bremen 24 13
22./23. Mai Merseburg 35
6./ 7. Juni HAMBURG 24 16
14./15. Juni Ruhrgebiet 29
Konstanz 16
17./18. Juni Köln 139 6
18./19. Juni Ruhrgebiet 69 1
19./20. Juni HAMBURG
Münster 112 7
20./21. Juni Rheinland 56
21./22. Juni Ruhrgebiet
Nord/Mitteldeutschland105
23. Jun Osnabrück,
Soest, Hamm 26
23./24. Juni Bremen,
Ruhrgebiet 79
30. Jun Darmstadt,
HAMBURG
Hamm, Hanau 88
1./ 2. Juli Osnabrück,
Kiel 73 10
03. Jul HAMBURG 1 19
5./ 6. Juli Kiel 51
15./16. Juli Hamborn,
Hannover,
Osnabrück,
Paderborn 33
17./18. Juli Gelsenkirchen 7
26./27. Juli Hamm, Ludwigshafen 27 1
27./28. Juli Norddeutschland 33
29./30. Juli Homberg,
Köln, Hamm 76
5./6. August HAMBURG, Kiel, , Kiel,
Wilhelmshaven,
Wismar 85
6./7. August Homberg,
Reisholz 26
7./8. August Emmerich, Hamm,
Soest, Kiel 50
9./10. August Köln, Ludwigshafen 38
11./12. August Ruhrgebiet 59
16./17. August Ruhrgebiet,
Frankfurt 150
17./18. August Braunschweig 102 7
18./19. August Rheinfelden,
Freiburg 20
25./26. August Berlin 103
Bremen,
Köln, Hamm 24
26./27. August Hannover,
Leipzig, Leuna,
Nordhausen 99
29./30. August Bottrop,
Essen, Mann-
heim, Soest 81
31. Aug Berlin, Köln 77
3./4. September Berlin, Magdeburg,
Ruhrgebiet 90
4./5. September Stettin,
Magdeburg,
Berlin 86
8./ 9. August HAMBURG, ,
Bremen,
Emden 133
10./11. August Berlin 17
23./24. September Berlin 1 29
26./27. September Dortmund,
Kiel 77
7./ 8. Oktober Berlin 104
13./14. Oktober Ruhrgebiet,
Wilhelmshaven, Kiel 125 1
14./15. Oktober Berlin, Stet-
tin,Magdeburg 78
16./17. Oktober Bremen, Kiel,
Merseburg 73
19./20. Oktober Osnabrück 3
20./21. Oktober Berlin 139
21./22. Oktober HAMBURG
Köln,
Stuttgart 31
28./29. Oktober HAMBURG 20 1
30./31. Oktober Duisburg, Emden 28
1./ 2. November Berlin,
Gelsenkirchen,
Magdeburg 81
6./7. November Berlin 18
7./8. November Essen, Köln 91
12./13. November Gelsenkirchen 77
15./16. November HAMBURG 67 26
16./17. November HAMBURG 130 2
Kiel 5
17./18. November Gelsenkirchen, Hamm 49
18./19. November Merseburg 1
20./21. November Duisburg 43
22./23. November Dortmund,
Wanne-Eickel 95
24./25. November HAMBURG 42 2
25./26. November Wilhelmshv. 36
27./28. November Köln 62
28./29. November Düsseldorf 77
29./30. November Bremen, Köln 42
3./4. Dezember Duisburg,
Essen, Mannheim 20
4./5. Dezember Düsseldorf 83
5./6. Dezember Gelsenkirchen 5
7./8. Dezember Düsseldorf 69
8./9. Dezember Düsseldorf 90
9./10. Dezember Bremen 39
11./12. Dezember Mannheim 42
13./14. Dezember Bremen, Kiel 33
15./16. Dezember Berlin, Frankfurt, Kiel 71 2
16./17. Dezember Mannheim 134 34
17./18. Dezember Mannheim 9
18./19. Dezember Mannheim 27
19./20. Dezember Köln, Duisburg,
Gelsenkirchen 85
20./21. Dezember Berlin, Gelsenkirchen 125
23./24. Dezember Mannheim,
Ludwigshafen 43
29./30. Dezember Frankfurt/M. 27

You find the information for the other years here:
http://www.bombenkrieg.net/start2.htm
(Press "Zahlen")
Last edited by ClaudiaRothenbach on Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:34 am)

Ahem, mon chere Hebden.

What a great Forum.

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Postby theTRUTH » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 11:40 am)

35,000? Dresden museum says 30,000, versus unofficial numbers over 90,000. What is the true figure?

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 12:48 pm)

Hebden wrote:It's time to put this myth to bed. Strategic bombing did not begin until 1942.


The strategic bombing began on May 10, 1940 (I think May 10, is the American date. I think it was May 9, in Europe, because of the international date line or the time of night or some thing. It's ridiculous to declare war on somebody, wait 6 months for him to react, then accuse him of "invading" anything.) and Hitler did not respond until September, after ten straight nights of bombing of Berlin, and even then only after repeated warnings. See BOMBING VINDICATED by JM Spaight, BOMBER COMMAND by Commander Harris, CHURCHILL'S WAR by Irving and almost everything else Irving ever wrote.

Everybody knows that.

I have SCIENCE AND GOVERNMENT and Galbraith's book, which proves that Hitler was never prepared for a long war. In fact German armaments production in 1939 was only 13% (perhaps Galbraith even says 8%) of what it was in 1944, after nearly everything had been blown up. The same thing is proven by Klein, GERMANY'S ECONOMIC PREPARATIONS FOR WAR and many other books.

Hitler waited 6 months to invade France and never took any action against Britain for 6 months, despite the British and French declaration of war. That was the six months. If he had attacked France immediately after the Polish campaign it would have been ever easier, because the French military preparations were not even finished yet and the weather was fine. Nobody ever waited 6 months to be attacked before, probably in the history of the world. Then they talk about an "invasion" of Western Europe! Not only was it a preemptive attack, but he was already at war, with war declared by the other side. The French were preparing an offensive through Belgium and Luxembourg.

-haldan
Last edited by Haldan on Sun Feb 13, 2005 10:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ClaudiaRothenbach
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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:57 pm)

Haldan wrote:The strategic bombing began on May 10, 1940 (I think May 10, is the American date. I think it was May 9, in Europe, because of the international date line or the time of night or some thing.


The first strategic bombing took place in Mönchengladbach (see above) during the night of May 11 to 12 This date is so important because Sir Winston Churchill raised the power on May 10. Obviously the first day of his reign of terror he celebrated, the next day he ordered bombing of civilians (see comment above: "A decision of the British Air Ministry made on May 11, 1940, to attack targets in Western Germany instituted the practice of bombing purely civilian objectives.").

It is quite disappointing that the Britons voted for Churchill as the greatest Briton of all times last year. I hope that the Britons are only misinformed.

On the other hand Churchill is important because he did not mention "gas chambers" in his biography - assumedly he was sure that the bogus would leak out soon after the war.


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