Bombing Dresden to save one Jew

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Haldan
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Bombing Dresden to save one Jew

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Feb 15, 2005 7:53 pm)

I found an interesting article from a german newspaper.
http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zei ... 21094.html

" Only a big attack can save us "


Henny Brenner, a Jew from Dresden, survived the third empire. She survived because Englishmen and Americans bombed the town on the Elbe

It can be translated with http://ets.freetranslation.com/

-------------------------------------

So they bombed Dresden to save ONE jew from absolutely NOTHING?!

My blood pressure went up 100% after reading this SICK story.

:evil:

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Last edited by Haldan on Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby horsa » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:30 am)

Speaking as a native Englander, proud of my culture and history, I can say that I am ashamed at what my recent ancestors did to the German people during WW11, and to the people of Dresden especially.
It was unforgivable.
It ****ing grieves me what we did to our German kin in Dresden that night.
Whisky sodden Churchill, is right now languishing in the deepest, darkest hell, allongside his buddies in genocidal crime, Roosevelt and Stalin.

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Postby Reviso » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 4:12 am)

The apologist of the bombing of Dresden speaks of Coventry.

I find this in a text of H.E. Barnes :

http://tmh.floonet.net/articles/barnes.html

" While the smotherout deluges us with exaggerated examples of National Socialist savagery, there is no comparable interest in, or even knowledge of, the actual Allied barbarities, such as the Churchill-Lindemann program of saturation bombing of civilians, especially the homes of the working class, which was as brutal, ruthless, and lethal as anything alleged against the Germans. As Liddell Hart and others have made clear, Hitler had honestly sought a ban on all bombing of civilians apart from the accepted rules of siege warfare. The German bombing of Coventry and London took place long after Hitler failed to get Britain to consent to a ban on civilian bombing. "

I think I read in a book of Rassinier that a British field-officer or general officer explained that England was the first to bomb civilians in WWII and that is was a great decision. (Rassinier gives the name of the officer and the reference, a book of this officer.)

Thanks beforehand if anybody can give precisions.

Reviso.
Last edited by Reviso on Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 1:49 pm)

Dresden is a good start to learn the truth about one of worst days in the history of mankind. It is a simple though hideous story of how easily people can be led from hope into terror. If we are ever to have peace in this world the lesson of Dresden must be learned. After a thousand years of war amongst themselves and having conquered the entire world, the European countries once again turned on themselves in 1914 and created the greatest number of dead and wounded soldiers in the history of war almost daily.

After having lost a generation of its young men in the WW1 these same countries vowed not to ban war but to never fight a war like that again. Never again would soldiers fight and die by the millions in disease, rat invested trenches or be mowed down by machine guns by the tens of thousands in useless battles for hill tops or fields in wars lasting years. The next war would be different. They soon began to build a war weapon so terrible that they expected future wars to last only a few days or weeks.

By the mid 1930’s most of the countries of Europe had developed an air plane whose main purpose would be to kill civilians in cities, a practice that had been outlawed in Geneva years earlier and had not been seen in war since the days of the Mongols. Furthermore no country was to develop a warplane as efficient and terrible as the British Lancaster Bomber. No country was so confident of its certain victory in the coming war as the British. On the other hand, Germany, because of Hitler’s distain for such a war, did not build bombers for the destruction of cities but built instead dive bombers to be used to support tanks and trucks in battle. It was a fatal mistake for it only encouraged the British to posture for their kind of war rather than renegotiate the criminal terms of the WW1 armistice and find peace in our time. It also gave the British a false hope for an easy victory.

The bomber proved to be useless in deciding the outcome of a war. Just as the Americans found out in Korea, Vietnam, and now Iraq the bombing of a country rarely causes a people to stop defending their country and the Germans fought on until the Russians army had killed almost every young man in Germany. In the meantime the British squandered the lives of 40, 000 of the best and brightest young men of its commonwealth as pilots, lost much of their remaining army, killed millions of German civilians and had destroyed every city in Germany to no avail except one, Dresden, one of the most beautiful cities in Europe. Dresden had never been bombed and it was expected to be, like Rome, Paris, or Prague, spared, for it had no importance to the war other than as a sanctuary for the weak and helpless. Furthermore the war was soon to be over soon for although 80% of the German war effort had gone into fighting the Soviets; the Soviets were on their way to victory.

It is for these reasons that over a million war refugees and civilians crowded into Dresden to await the coming end of this war that had caused the death of 50 million civilians and soldiers. By this time however the British had gone mad, the Soviets and Germans had long gone mad, and the Americans were soon to follow. Every army goes mad eventually as can seen to this day in Iraq, Rwanda, East Timor, Palestine, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and all over the former Soviet Union.

So on that fateful day the British and Americans in a fit of madness roasted alive approximately 500, 000 helpless people. However sixty years later the world still does not understand Dresden not does it want to. We lie about it, make excuses about it, deny it and try to ignore it. We still continue to put most of our energy into winning wars rather than seeking out and destroying the causes of war. We still don’t seem to realize that a world driven by greed, that tries to solve its problems with war, is a world that not going to drive very far nor solve many of its problems in the short time we have left.
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Postby Ajax » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:02 pm)

Barrington James wrote:So on that fateful day the British and Americans in a fit of madness roasted alive approximately 500, 000 helpless people.


Oh come on. Dresden was a war crime, make no mistake. But to churn out figures like this makes us a laughing stock. What would the exterminationists make of us if they saw that we were bandying about figures of half a million, when the actual figure was - in my view at least - just over a tenth of that?

Irrespective of the figures, the unnecessary firebombing of a city populated by civilians was ordered and carried out. This is all we need to say - let's leave the art of magical number creation to the mythologists.
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:33 pm)

Oh come on. Dresden was a war crime, make no mistake. But to churn out figures like this ...

Agreed. Seems like something intended to discredit this forum.

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Postby comrade seinfeld » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:39 pm)

In relation to the subject of this thread "Bombing Dresden to save one Jew" it brings to mind the diary memoirs of Victor Klemperer. I don't want to go into too much detail since any serious revisionist would be aware of Victor Klemperer, but he was a Jewish philologist married to an "Aryan", and was a decorated WW1 veteran, and so he was not deported from Germany, as well as the fact that he was close to retirement age, and so, when he was dismissed from his university post (in accordance with the anti-Semitic Nazi laws) he survived on a pension.

The point, however, is that he lived in Dresden, and survived the fire-bombing, although it necessitated him and his wife becoming refugees, along with many other Germans, until he came within the purview of the Americans. Whenever Klemperer has been discussed in forums such as alt.revisionism at my instigation in the past the exterminationists have always maintained that Klemperer was saved by the Dresden fire-bombing from being deported, but if you actually read the dairy entries for that time that is absolute nonsense. At the time of the Dresden bombing Klemperer was a leading member of a Judenrat organisation concerned with organising the welfare of the Jews still living around Dresden, as well as organizing work for them as German citizens (although not equal to "Aryans") in relation to the war effort, as there was no threat of him being deported to a concentration camp, and it was only because his living quarters were destroyed, and there was nothing left in Dresden to aid survival, that he joined many other Germans in becoming internal refugees -- and he encountered no hostility from any civilians or authorities because he was a Jew in this process.

The Klemperer diaries only became public after the fall of the East German Communist regime, since Klemperer, for whatever reason (since in his diary he is critical of the Stalinists), chose to live in the East, where he regained a university post, and he was always internationally acclaimed as a scholar. It is also interesting that he also kept a diary of his time in East Germany, which was also not able to be published until the fall of the regime, in which there is nothing said in relation to the "Holocaust". This is interesting in relation to the fact that in his Nazi-period diaries, although he makes it clear that he is in contact with both Jewish and non-Jewish sources with some information about what is happening in the East, there is no mention of any systematic attempt to physically exterminate the Jews (and so he is no different from the rest of the German population in this regard), although there is reference to the hardships and mortality associated with life in the concentration camps, as well as massacres of Jews on the Russian front.

I would think that if you wanted to influence someone towards adopting a revisionist or agnostic view towards the "Holocaust" then you should recommend that they read the Victor Klemperer diaries, since, apart from some ill-treatment at the hands of a solitary Gestapo agent, life as a German Jew, even during the period of mass deportation of the Jews, was relatively benign for someone like him, as it was for many others, who, for various reasons, were not subject to deportation. However, since Klemperer, like most Germans, was limited in his sources of information, it is no substitute for serious consideration as to what exactly happened during the "Holocaust".

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Postby horsa » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:35 pm)

Ajax and Hannover,
When you consider the number of refugees fleeing the advancing Soviet hordes who had poured into Dresden, combined with the nature of the attack, then it is not unreasonable to estimate the number of casualties as being as many as half a million.


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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:05 am)

horsa:
Ajax and Hannover,
When you consider the number of refugees fleeing the advancing Soviet hordes who had poured into Dresden, combined with the nature of the attack, then it is not unreasonable to estimate the number of casualties as being as many as half a million.

Yes, I was merely referring to the attack itself.

The ripple effect of creating so many refugees, the freezing weather, starvation, sanitation problems, lack of medicines, and vulnerability to the murderous Soviet hordes gives me pause. Thanks.

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:49 am)

My calculations for the number of dead are based on the fact that the bombing of Dresden over three days can be thought of as three atomic bomb attacks, the effects were that terrible. The temperature of Dresden was so hot that many of the people there were simply turned into soup after having their lungs and skin fried by the heat of at least 1000 C. There was no escape for these people. I estimate that at least 70% of 300, 000 or about 200, 000 people living in the centre of Dreden would have died the first night. The Dresden ring was bombed the second night and I estimate that about 20% of the remaining 1, 000, 000 people or about 200, 000 probably died the second night also. On the third day the Americans bombed but they also machine gunned tens of thousands of people who had sought refuge along the river. I guess they killed about 100, 000. This explains my total of 500,000 dead at Dresden. Another way of looking at it is this. The total number of phosphorus incendiary bombs dropped over the three days was 700, 000. If each bomb just killed one person the number of deathes would be even higher than my estimate. I think the attack involved 2, 500 planes. If each plane killed about 200 people , then the number of dead would be 500,000. Finally, while helping to plan the attack, Churchill had asked "How do you roast 600, 000 people? I think he got his wish.
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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 17, 2005 5:15 pm)

If each bomb just killed one person the number of deaths would be even higher than my estimate.


I never thought of it like that! To be honest I do not think the exact toll will ever be known. It was such pre-meditated and utterly grotesque carnage that reigned on those fearful nights, that I cannot see how anyone could really know the exact figure. All the same, when you read about the volume of WMD’s that were dropped and the hideous images, it must be at least 100,000 at the very least.

Of course, the Zionist’s will do all they can to trivialise it and reduce the numbers, of this you can be assured.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:55 pm)

Turpitz wrote:Of course, the Zionist’s will do all they can to trivialise it and reduce the numbers, of this you can be assured.


That is so true. If you even question their imaginary 'holocaust' they'll throw you in jail, for years.

"A question settled by violence, or in definance of law, must remain
unresolved forever." - Jefferson Davis


" Only a big attack can save us "


It never occurs to the Jews that this sort of argument can easily be turned around. Millions -- literally, millions -- of Europeans could say, with equal logic, "I owe my life to the fact that millions of Jewish Communists were gassed at Auschwitz or shot in Soviet Russia", even if the mass gassings were a fact. After all, the German invasion of Russia did save Europe from Communism whether we like to admit that fact or not.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 3:10 am)

Dresden was exterminated in Feb 1945. Even the lemurs of the official historical policy do not alledge that at that point of time mass gassings were still going on.

The above article in Berliner Zeitung is just embarrassing.

Does anybody know how many Jews were murdered by the Dresden air raid (of should I say "bomb holocaust")?

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Postby Reviso » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:39 am)

I've observed that the apologist of the bombing of Dresden speaks of Coventry as if Coventry justified Dresden.

The book of Rassinier I referred to is "Le véritable procès Eichmann ou les vainqueurs incorrigibles", republ. 1983, p. 49-50.

Contrarily to my recollection, he doesn't quote an officer, but J.M. Spaight, private secretary of the the British minister of Air. J.M. Spaight wrote in his book "Bombing vindicated", 1944, p. 74, that the General Staff of the Amiralty decided the "strategic bombings" on May 11, 1940 and that the first strategical bombings were executed on the same day (on railways in the Ruhr region, with foreseeable civil victims).

I try to translate the first sentence of the French translation of Spaight's words : "Since we were annoyed with the psychological effect which could follow the revelation that we had taken the initiative of the offensive by strategic bombings, we didn't give our great decision of May 11, 1940 all the publicity it was worth."

Spaigth goes on, it's very interesting, but it would be better to quote the original english words. I don't find them on Internet.

Reviso.


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