question about Auschwitz chamber roof

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:23 am)

Carto's states:
Perle is right. You can't show a small part of a big roof and say "look! no holes, no holocaust." And I can see Germania's point in asking where the holes should be.

Hilberg doesn't even mention a roof: "An SS man, wearing a gas mask fitted with a special filter, lifted the glass shutter over the lattice and emptied one can after another into the gas chamber. "

Wrong.
In that one photo the entire allegation that 500,000 people were gassed in that one morgue, via Zyklon-B said to have been dropped through the alleged holes, is shot down. That is now the offical story, the 'holes' are said to be where the Zyklon was dumped, it's that simple. Hey, they're the ones that say such stupid things, Revisionists just blow the nonsense out of the water. Knowing that they lied about the Zyklon-B holes shoots down the entire 'industrialized extermination' canard. AND we know there are no mass shooting sites as alleged, so bye bye judeo-supremacist Zionist lies.

Pointing out that Hilberg claims something else simply unmasks the ever changing lies that the 'holocau$t' story is comprised of. There's all kinds of other gassing technique versions, equally as absurd. The liars have lost control (Hilberg is simply more proof of that fact), but count on no one checking up on the stories. But now we have Revisionism, and it's not going away. Bad news for the scam.

And, as I stated earlier, but perhaps you ignored:
Look no further than the Believers' own renderings. You really need to look at:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=506
It's the 'holocau$t' Industry's' own tampering that belies their assertions.

You will see where the alleged 'holes' have been drawn on the rooftops. We clearly have plenty of remaining rooftop to show evidence of them, if it was all true.
Again, we don't see any of them in the photo from underneath the roof. If they had been there as alleged we would be seeing indication of them. Simple.

It's not that deep debunking the 'holocau$t' tales.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:56 am)

but he would appear to observers to have successfully beaten a revisionist argument. We need many more clear photos of the areas concerned, in my opinion, before we can use them as slam dunk evidence.



In fact I agree with Perle that it's the one area of revisionism where the other side might actually beat us in a debate and make us look bad.


It is now obvious that the true-believer camp do not possess any photo’s of the morgues that they are willing to embellish and release, if they did, they would have no-doubt peddled them at the Irving trial. As I have already said, from the small resources revisionists have access too, the two pictures here show nothing, and so it would be in the industries interests to show a photo taken at the correct placement that does show their accusations, instead of putting all the onus on the revisionists who are not even allowed access to many sources, whilst the true believers attempt nothing, whilst having access to all.

As to saying the believers can win the argument, maybe you should at least try and enlighten your personal knowledge about the properties of concrete and the working methods when utilising it. For one, it would be wise to stop calling concrete ‘cement’. Cement is only one part of the ingredients that make up a concrete composite, cement is utterly useless on it’s own. There are an incredible amount of concrete mixes using all different types of ingredients, but generally concrete includes aggregate of around three quarter inch down, also binders of sand and dust, then cement at various ratios and finally water. If you can take the trouble to understand the fundamentals of concrete, you will then no-doubt be able to grasp the hideous fraudulence of this statement, that was passed off as proof as to why the holes are not visible:

Today, these four "small" holes that connected the wire-mesh columns and the chimneys cannot be observed in the ruined remains of the concrete slab.


From this statement that the so-called ‘Expert’ Van-Pelt gave in a court of law, a man who has personally visited the site (He’s allowed to!) and inspected the pancaked slab, he does not mention anything about there being any reason why one should not be able to find them due to the state of the slab no, indeed he implies that the reason why they are not visible (Which he admitted in court) is because they were plugged and rendered invisible!…This is a blatant lie of the highest order, and is absolutely impossible for any true-believer to overcome. So do not try and predict the outcome, when the whole conversation revolves around a shocking, disgusting lie such as this. If you want to render Van-Pelt irrelevant, then maybe we should also render his lies irrelevant also, the lies that were used to deceitfully prove Irving wrong, when all the time he was completely right.

Once this odious lie was accepted, the journaille then went about their usual business of validating it and indelibly stamping it in the minds of masses who are ignoramuses to say the least.

Anyone who knows their subject knows fool well if the holes ever existed, upon physical inspection their faces would be visible today in the ruins and so would rebar junctions around them. And everyone who knows their subject also knows, that trying to use the argument that the holes were plugged, which magically reinstated the slab back to it’s original status, is a terrible lie of gross proportions.


Is this true? Rudolf describes a ventilation system that he acknowledges in morgue I.


Show me one and explain their runs and connectivity methods.


Added to the confusion is that the David Cole video is obviously in another building. Krema 1?


Correct! Krema I is at the main camp (The one Cole looked at), Krema’s II and III are mirrors of one another and reside at Birkenau. Krema’s IV and V are different structures completely, but also reside at Birkenau.

If you prove that certain eyewitnesses are lying about the holes on the roof. And if you prove that the one hole is completely a post-war hatchet job--as they call it, you are still not disproving what Hilberg said. Hilberg doesn't even mention a roof: "An SS man, wearing a gas mask fitted with a special filter, lifted the glass shutter over the lattice and emptied one can after another into the gas chamber. "


I am coming to the conclusion that you are not even at the right building! I think you are so overcome with confusion that you related Hilberg’s worthless utterances in relation to Krema IV to Krema II. This is why you are clambering up ladders, trying to pour pellets through dormer windows into the roofspace.


Image

Krema IV (4)


Image

Krema IV (4)


Kremas IV and V are completely different structures, both reside in the Birkenau camp but are in no way related to Krema’s II and III which are supposedly mirrors of one another. In Krema IV the alleged gas chambers are above ground. According to the eye witnesses the Zyklon-B pellets were poured in through a window and they had to wear gas masks to enter the building and to drag the corpses out.

What’s odd is the fact that for the HCN to work in Krema II Chicken wire things are now being promoted, yet in Krema IV you can still pour them directly onto the cold floor and they work, just like they used too in Krema II !

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 12:28 pm)

Image

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Richard Perle
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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:07 pm)

It is now obvious that the true-believer camp do not possess any photo’s of the morgues that they are willing to embellish and release, if they did, they would have no-doubt peddled them at the Irving trial.


Which is essentially what I have said at least twice.

As to saying the believers can win the argument


I originally said:

Of course I don't believe that they could possibly be there, as claimed by the industry, but I am against revisionists using pictures as proof when a clever believer could easily make the arguments that I have made against them. The believer wouldn't be proving his case with such arguments, but he would appear to observers to have successfully beaten a revisionist argument.


I am merely pointing out that if revisionists use photos which don't show the area of roof where the Zyklon B was introduced to the chamber, such as that colour photo which shows a ceiling and no pillars, then a believer could argue successfully that the photo is worthless as proof that gassings were impossible. Please don't take that to mean that I believe any of the believer nonsense, I am trying to ensure that all revisionist arguments are solid. We can't afford to be proven wrong on even minor details like this, you know how the industry likes to present revisionist research, after all. Let's not give them anything to work with.

Nice 3D images. They should help clear up any confusion over the layout. It would be good to know where the accessable interior areas are in relation to those models, as well as the currently existing holes.

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Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 2:48 pm)

Personally, the photo of the collapsed roof shows us bugger all, you can't see the holes that the soviets knocked through (unless I'm looking in the wrong place on the photo).

Turpitz, is it beyond a few good plasterers to backfill a hole, plaster it over, and let weathering do the rest?

Just playing devil's advocate here, but as revisionists we have one thing going for us (apart from the non-evidence) and that is that we shouldn't be as intransigent in our arguments as the believers.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:22 pm)

Perle is right. You can't show a small part of a big roof and say "look! no holes, no holocaust." And I can see Germania's point in asking where the holes should be.

Hilberg doesn't even mention a roof: "An SS man, wearing a gas mask fitted with a special filter, lifted the glass shutter over the lattice and emptied one can after another into the gas chamber. "



Forgive me Carto, but someone who is just learning where the morgue was probably shouldn't be making these conclusions before he knows more about the subject.

Enough of the morgue roof exists to do an adequate forensic study proving either the existence or non-existence of the Zyklon introduction holes. For goodness' sakes they can rebuild ancient pottery and ruins as well as shredded airliners after crashes. Surely they could determine the validity of the roof ports - especially when these photos show us such intact remains.

If you study morgue I at Birkenau there are two crudely-hacked holes in the roof remains there and nothing else. This is the same roof photographed in allied aerial photos showing 4 alternating ports and their bogus shadows. These photos give adequate reference to where their respective holes should be in the present ruins. Not only are the two crudely-hacked holes in the wrong place, but the remaining other two are nowhere to be found. It is impossible to seamlessly merge old concrete with new, so if those holes were closed up they would be easily findable.

Carto: The main reason Birkenau is off limits to further inspection is because there are no claimed Zyklon port holes in the roof of morgue I. The reason your quote above doesn't mention a roof is because their stories vary so much none of them agree. There is no greater example of gas chamber fraud than the roof on morgue I at Birkenau. This is the same structure in which Leuchter found no revealing levels of cyanide residue. Read your quote, it mentions nothing about any mesh column or removing the pellets. If your Nazi gasser in the gas gear were "emptying can after can of Zyklon" into the chamber it would have been saturated in residue. It wasn't.


In short, the holes should be where they were located in the aerial photos. There is enough remaining of the morgue roofs to go there and determine once and for all whether or not they exist. Ever wonder why they won't let anyone? I'll let you on as to why, it's because the roofs are intact enough to prove there's no holes.


Cole said the two bogus holes existing there have rough edges indicating they were hacked through the roof after the war. The Auschwitz overseers tried to explain this by saying roof blasting damaged them. However, the undressing room nearby was of similar construction with known furnace chimneys going through its roof. This structure was blasted much worse than the morgue, yet the pipe egress edges where they went through the roof are all smooth-edged and easily determinable as chimney holes.

Physics requires that stress fractures will invariably eminate from holes in a concrete slab. Other blasted roofs in Birkenau with known holes all had cracks and blast fissures eminating from their roof holes. The two holes in the morgue roof did not - indicating they were hacked through after the roof was blasted.

I don't see how anyone could say the roofs weren't useful evidence.
Last edited by Radar on Sat Apr 09, 2005 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:27 pm)

Turpitz:

You've already shown them yourself in your computer graphic. The extended base of the morgue is supposed to contain an exhaust vent duct. This is also shown in the longitudinal cut-away blueprint for the morgue. Rudolf also acknowledges it. The intake duct is in the ceiling corners.

It should still be there...

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:26 am)

Thanks Turpitz for more 3-D graphics. They are very helpful.
But why do the following two graphics appear not in sync with
each other? Look where the windows meet morgue #1 in both images.

Image

Image

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 2:52 am)

Carto's CS:

They sync up fine. The viewing angle is different, but so what? Perhaps it is you.

As Radar said:
Forgive me Carto, but someone who is just learning where the morgue was probably shouldn't be making these conclusions before he knows more about the subject.

You need to get it straight as to what is what at Auschwitz/Birkenau and what the storyline says.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 8:14 am)

It's just the perspective of the photograph and the way the morgue disappears behind the earth. Count the windows on the 3D model, there are ten, and the morgue intersects with the crematorium at window 9. Then count the windows on the photo and you can see how the morgue must meet the crematorium at the ninth and last window visible.

It is totally ridiculous that the Germans would create such a bottle neck with the tiny elevator leading up to the ovens if they planned to be transfering thousands of bodies per day from the gas chamber to the ovens. More space could have been in the design without giving away any murderous intentions.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:13 am)

Thanks Perle: if I count the windows from the right side I can see where it does seem to hit at the right place. Maybe the photographer was using a telephoto lense which made the angles not look right to me. I originally thought the "chamber" was a ledge when first looking at the photo!

Once you get to this level of knowledge about this, suddenly air-photo.com becomes an interesting and informative website.

I must say that design-wise, this building appears to be set up to minimize a bomb hit. If a bomb hits the main building, the fragments won't go into morgue 1 and 2. Also, the angle of morgue 1 and 2 (away from the main building, seem to minimize bomb damage and make it hard to hit. Notice how in the photo, there is a pile of dirt to the left: that protects from a bomb hit. The multi-levels protect from a bomb hit.

Imagine if it was all one rectangular building on one level. A direct-hit bomb could wreck the whole thing.
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How high were the morgue walls? They don't look high enough so that zyklon could have been thrown in through a wall opening, without inmates breaking a window or making a human step ladder or something to escape. Plus witnesses say it was the roof.
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How about these following two photos below: Question: how much of the roof is showing in the photo? I would say one tenth, one twentieth. That hardly proves that there were no holes in the whole roof. However maybe that's not the significance of the photo. Maybe the significance of the photo is that you can see where the concrete fused together, those lines. Which means that you could follow those lines for the entire roof, and be able to see if there were ever holes. And the revisionists do have a valid point: while many prominent revisionists can't even visit Auschwitz, the exterminationists would highly publicize where those holes would be. In fact there'd probably be a Spielberg movie called "holes in the roof" or something.

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Image
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The graphic below is from air-photo.com, and here the informative pop up window is disabled (check it out on the site though) but notice that the morgues are almost completely submerged, unlike the mid-war photo further above on this thread. However the point of this graphic might not have been "scale" but rather to explain other things about the site.
Image
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 11:43 am)

I'm not sure that you see fusing on the ceiling. I have no idea how these things are constructed but I don't imagine the concrete was cast in those small strips. I believe those lines are the gaps between the wooden planks of the frame it was cast on, with a small amount of concrete having been pushed between the gaps. That's what I imagine when I look at it, and you can see the wood grain in the concrete on the B&W photo on page one of this thread, but I could be wrong. Turpiz would be able to clear this up. But you're right, to cover up any interuption in this original concrete without trace would be impossible.

I'm not sure what the thinking was behind the layout of these three buildings, but it could, I suppose, have been to minimize bomb damage. That mount of earth was probably the stuff used to cover the morgue when it was finished. Remember it had a layer of earth on top of it. No walls as such were visible when finished and nobody claims that Zyklon was thrown through walls on this building, or it's mirror image, Krema III. Window/wall openings are said to have been used on the less often mentioned Kremas IV and V, as well as the bunkers to the North.

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Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:52 pm)

Richard Perle wrote:I'm not sure what the thinking was behind the layout of these three buildings, but it could, I suppose, have been to minimize bomb damage.

We know that Typhus was a major concern to the Germans.
I assumed that the morgues are underground to keep the bodies cool and minimize the spread of diesease from rotting cadavers?

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:59 pm)

Oh, absolutely, but I was commenting on CCS's thoughts about why the morgue was at a right angle to the crematorium.

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Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:07 pm)

Oh I see, was it simply convenient because of the proximity to the lift up to the oven rooms?


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