Eyewitness Account

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AshesAreBurning
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Eyewitness Account

Postby AshesAreBurning » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:22 am)

I experienced listening to an eye witness account of a survivor's experience in Auschwitz. No, it was not a public speech. he is not known to anyone outside of his family and friends. He is a German Jew who was a labourer before being transferred to Auchwitz where he was lucky enough to have survived. He participated in the death march out of the camp as the Soviet armies were approaching. this gentlemen lost every member of his family in the camps

Perhaps you would want to hear 1000's of other eye witness accounts of survivors through the Shoah Foundation.

Personally, I lost many of my great aunts and uncles in the Holocaust. their town, Ravna, Poland, no longer exists.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 9:56 am)

Sorry Ashes,

The 'death marches' are a contrivance. The mere fact that Jews were given a choice to retreat with the SS or await the communists refutes the entire matter. I see you haven't read E. Wiesel or Primo Levi.

We've discussed some parts of the so called 'Shoah Foundations's' interviews and found them frankly, absurd and unsustainable. Choose a few you find believable and start new threads on them and we'll debate. Can you do that?

I personally lost 'relatives' in the Allied terror campaign against Germans. A real holocaust.

I challenge you to prove to us your 'relatives' were murdered. I suggest you investigate the Soviet WWII deportations and those who went to Palestine.

Yes, I'm sure the town magically disappeared. Re-named is more like it. Why is it that only Jews vanish into thin air?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:13 am)

AshesAreBurning
Personally, I lost many of my great aunts and uncles in the Holocaust. their town, Ravna, Poland, no longer exists.


How many did you lose all together? The most average number I have seen claimed is over a hundred (100).

You say there are thousands of eyewitness testimonies in the Shoah Foundation?

Better check out Katyn Forest on the internet and see how real documentation shows a crime of mass murder. Check it out and then see if you can find anything like it for the alleged Holocaust millions.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:50 am)

I think that even the Vad Yashem museum admits how unreliable a large proportion of their 'survivor' tales are.

The past 60 years have been an ideal environment for false memories to flourish.

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Postby koolhass » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:41 am)

Richard - are they ALL unreliable?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:16 pm)

koolhass asks:
Richard - are they ALL unreliable?

Yes.
If they refer to impossible gassings, human soap, human fertilizer, non-existent mass graves, 'anything which defies laws of science or cannot be verified with forensic excavations. Then yes, they are ALL unreliable.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby AshesAreBurning » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:16 pm)

I would like to know the method used for debunking the eye witness testimonies of so many. Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:46 pm)

Koolhaas. I never said "ALL", but as for the numbers, take it up with Vad Yashem. The vast majority of eyewitnesses aren't actually witnesses to the things revisionists dispute. Most I've heard speak of being separated from family and never seeing them again, with the assumption that they were gassed. The exposure to the propaganda and rumours during and especially since the war has provided an ideal and unprecedented environment for people to become confused and convinced that they saw things which never occured. The rumours alone can have this effect on people, but they might also be influenced by the rumours in conjuncture with things they actually did see. Things which were quite innocent, but when recalling the event later in the poisoned atmosphere of hysteria that has existed for 60 years, the event takes on a sinister twist.

Imagine you are in Auschwitz and you see a group of people heading off in a line and someone whispers to you that they are being led to a gas chamber. They were actually being transferred to another location, but you have just become a future eyewitness to Nazi extermination.
Picture yourself in Auschwitz watching a group of people undressing and entering a building. You're another witness to a gassing, but in fact you saw a delousing procedure.

See this thread for the psychological phenomena known as the 'misinformation effect':

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1995

8/17/86:
A front-page article by B. Amouyal in the Jerusalem Post quotes Yad Vashem Archives director Shmuel Krakowski to the effect that "Over half of the 20,000 testimonies from Holocaust survivors on record at Yad Vashem are 'unreliable' and have never been used as evidence in Nazi war crimes trials." The story also states, "Krakowski says that many survivors, wanting 'to be part of history' may have let their imaginations run away with them. 'Many were never in the places where they claim to have witnessed atrocities, while others relied on second-hand information given them by friends or passing strangers,' according to Krakowski." (paragraph) "A large number of testimonies on file were later proved inaccurate when locations and dates could not pass an expert historian's appraisal."


"Sources for the study of the gas chambers are at once rare and unreliable." -- Arno Mayer, arthor of the book, Why Did the Heavens Not Darken?

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 12:48 pm)

Hi Ashesareburning,

Pick an eyewitness yourself, and do a keyword search here on the forum with the "search" button above. Select "whole phrase" . I'll bet you'll find an entire thread on the person.

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Postby AshesAreBurning » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:07 pm)

Pick an eyewitness yourself, and do a keyword search here on the forum with the "search" button above. Select "whole phrase" . I'll bet you'll find an entire thread on the person


I know what I would get. What about something a little more objective?

Imagine you are in Auschwitz and you see a group of people heading off in a line and someone whispers to you that they are being led to a gas chamber. They were actually being transferred to another location, but you have just become a future eyewitness to Nazi extermination.


Another location? Yes, I'd imagine when family memebers were seperated and never heard from again, it was more a case of a family fall out.

this site is like spitting on the ashes of my family memebers lost in gthe Holocaust, all from Poland.


Speaking of Poland. What ever happened to the 2 million plus Jews in there? Poland had one of the largest Jewish Populations in Europe and they literally went poof. Maybe it was just a myth.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:29 pm)

ashes:

Objective? Show us an example of a 'witness' where we have not been 'objective'. Please, no excuses to avoid starting a thread on anyone you find believable. This is, afterall, your chance to take on Revisionists. Why do you dodge?
ashes said:
this site is like spitting on the ashes of my family memebers lost in gthe Holocaust, all from Poland

That's hilarious. You cannot provide evidence for your assertions, even though you have been asked to. You are provided with a golden opportunity to refute Revisionists; yet we are somehow spitting on the 'ashes of your family'... for which you can provide no evidence that they were gassed or that anyone was gassed.
I see that Jews matter more than the Goyim to you, as if you're not offending Germans with your silly accusations ...you are spitting on them then.

Absolutely absurd, ashes.

Oh yes, we've covered the Jews in Poland. Check out the threads and post to them. Here's your big chance.
try these:

Soviet Deportations
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=39

Jews of Poland. Where'd they go?
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1612

'German Crimes in Poland' online ... really
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1911

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:39 pm)

Many of the Polish Jews went to Israel. That's why Israel has a sizeable Ashkenazi Jewish population. After all, if all the Jews were killed, why is it then that Israel has a sizeable Ashkenazi Jewish population numbering in the millions? Many went to the US. The US has a sizeable Ashkenazi Jewish population numbering in the millions. Some pre-war immigrants, some post-war.

And why is it that the Polish heads of State and the higher up bureacracy of Poland was Jewish after the war? I thought they were all killed.

I'm not disrespecting your ancestors. But the fact is, as a Jew, you've been lied to. You might have even been lied to by your family members about Ravna. You were lied to when you read the Diary of Anne Frank.

The majority of Polish Jews died at Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. More than at Auschwitz. And the main witness to those camps, the only one that wrote an eyewitness book on it, is Yankel Wernik. A Polish Jew. And the book is an obvious and utter fabrication. Plain as day to anyone who spends an hour reading it. It's called "Year at Treblinka" You would agree if you read it. Wernik escapes, but he's shot. Luckily the bullet went through all his clothing, but didn't pierce his skin! He's 52 years old at the time. He turns around really fast and sees the guard who shot him, and kills him with an axe! And I'm a hateful crazy nut for not believing that? Hilberg believes it. He cites that book repeatedly.

Perhaps all the lying made you mistrustful and contemptuous of the non-Jewish population, which then effects your actions and your views. In other words the lying might have crimped your worldview and outlook, and thus your personality. My view is against tweaking young Jewish kids' personalities with these psychologically damaging stories. It is thus a pro-Jewish liberation viewpoint. As hard as that might be to understand.

Think of the young Jewish kid that has some schizophrenia running in his family. Now with a healthy upbringing, that possibility for schizophrenia might lie dormant for the kid's whole life. Drug use could bring it on, but maybe the kid will never do drugs. Schizophrenia is "a delusion of grandeur and persecution." So what effect do you think it will have, when before even hitting puberty, that kid is assigned to read The Diary of Anne Frank? Or taken to a holocaust museum. For a revisionist, who doesn't believe in the story, it's particularly upsetting. As the holocaust story isn't even true.
Last edited by Carto's Cutlass Supreme on Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 1:47 pm)

The majority of Polish Jews died at Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. More than at Auschwitz...

Huh? Is that supposedly died?

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 2:07 pm)

Yes, that's what I meant. But it draws away from my rhetoric if I'm constantly putting "holocaust" in quotations, or using "so-called" all the time, or "alleged." Or putting every word in quotes such as *at the "death camps"* Maybe I should always put that, but I think everyone understands what I'm saying.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:15 pm)

ashes, everyone:
Let's make specific comments and replies in the threads which deal with these specifics. This thread is getting to be a mish-mash of too many topics. Thanks.
Only lies need to be shielded from debate, truth welcomes it.


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