German Atrocities

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Radar
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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:01 pm)

I certainly agree that revisionists do not say that "nothing bad happened to the Jews" as the Holocausters try to pretend we say. I have been fighting that smear for a long time. So we are on the same page there.

I think my point has been taken however. We don't have to defend the National Socialist regime to the point at which we deny they did any wrong.

Like the euthanasia program. OK?

You say that revisionists do recognize the wrong in the Nazi expulsion of the Jews to the east but that it pales in comparison to the evils committed by others. Maybe. Let us say that the victims amounted to, say 2 million, or even 1 million, instead of the claimed 6 million. Well, that's pretty bad by my book. I don't go around beating my breast about it here on this board but on the other hand I don't want to build a monument to the people who orchestrated that program.

I have always defended the Germans who fought for their country honorably and I am disgusted with those Germans who try to forget their fathers and older brothers who died in the war because of the "red card" they have been given by the victors, so I won't accept any criticism on that score.
Last edited by Radar on Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:11 pm)

I guess what gets me is that NS Germany is held to a different standard. They come out looking better than others when this standard is even handedly applied. Indeed, the euthanasia program is a classic example.

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Postby diaz52 » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:42 pm)

Hannover wrote:diaz52:

What you're referring does indeed come under the euthanasia program that Germany had for awhile, but stopped. It was completely legal, and today is commonplace.

The absurd assertions about it being a 'trial run' for the dumb 'holocaust' are ridiculous and without a shred of evidence, as usual. Often you read about the 'T4' program with even gassings claimed by the same people who claim gas chambers for Jews. The claims do not hold up to rational scrutiny.

There's plenty here about it, just search 'euthanasia' and see.

- Hannover


Great, will do, thanks much Hannover.
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Postby antizog » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:31 am)

Often times, when talking to friends and associates, about the myths of the "holocaust", armed with facts and logic -this is what I get: I get an emotional, pathetic attempt at argument, with raised voice,
acting horrified, trying to drown me out. It's very frustrating. Some people are locked into permanent "denial" mode. Logic is not allowed to enter into the eqaution.
I have come to the conclusion that most people are conditioned like sheep to accept lies, and become very disturbed when inconvenient information threatens to shatter the worldview that they have had due to constant exposure those lies. The "holocaust" has become a religion, with it's obediant zombies repeating the dogma of the "6 million", the "gas chambers" or even more ridiculous "gas ovens".
If I ever come into a sum of large money -my goal would be to send pamphlets to every home in the United States. These pamhlets would offer, a concise, clear and thought provoking exposure of the "holocaust" lies, and who is behind them.

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Postby diaz52 » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jan 20, 2007 11:40 am)

antizog wrote:Often times, when talking to friends and associates, about the myths of the "holocaust", armed with facts and logic -this is what I get: I get an emotional, pathetic attempt at argument, with raised voice,
acting horrified, trying to drown me out. It's very frustrating. Some people are locked into permanent "denial" mode. Logic is not allowed to enter into the eqaution.
I have come to the conclusion that most people are conditioned like sheep to accept lies, and become very disturbed when inconvenient information threatens to shatter the worldview that they have had due to constant exposure those lies. The "holocaust" has become a religion, with it's obediant zombies repeating the dogma of the "6 million", the "gas chambers" or even more ridiculous "gas ovens".
If I ever come into a sum of large money -my goal would be to send pamphlets to every home in the United States. These pamhlets would offer, a concise, clear and thought provoking exposure of the "holocaust" lies, and who is behind them.


I know from personal experience exactly what you are refering to, and you're exactly right. There is a huge barrier to the truth; this stubborn "denial mode" that many people adhere to at all costs. Furthermore, they usually will minimize what you are saying by using labels. "Oh, he's just an anti-semite." Or "he's a neo-nazi." Or they'll use that old favorite label "racist." In social situations those trump card labels often times negate any evidence however clearly and rationally put forth, and simply neutralizes what you say.

I think with the vast majority of the population this will often be the case. Most simply are not thinkers, but are followers. But, more than this, the power of the Television and the media comes into play here. I don't think most people are aware of just how enormously powerful media images are. They have the power to shape views and attitudes on a wide range of complex socio-political issues in a relatively short period of time. And as movie and TV producers have gotten more skilled and experienced, so too has the power to influence us increased and become more effective. There are cues in movies and TVs which we may not even be conscience of, which clearly define acceptable and unacceptable behaviors and attitudes. Just to use two well known examples of this: the movie "Roots" had a huge impact on Americans, and was a hugely successful instrument of "white guilt" mongering, which Liberals, Blacks and Leftists have enjoyed the benefit of. Similarly the TV drama "The Holocaust" was also piece of "white guilt mongering" propaganda which also generated huge benefits for Jews, Liberals and Leftists, which are still being enjoyed and mined to this day.

I could go on. But the communists understood early on the tremendous power of the cinema. And I think the loss of the American movie houses to the control of the Jews was a huge set-back in the health and well-being of this nation, and of the West in general. The values of Hollywood have been an alien presence in most Americans lives for decades now. And I think that most Americans understand that. They may not openly state that "Hollywood is controlled by evil Jews" but in the back of their mind they understand and know that to be the case.

While watching TV shows and commercials, and while watching movies, lets try to be more critical in our thinking, and try to pick up on subtle cues from the producers on various societal norms. One trick I've picked up on is to use unattractive whites or whites who are in some way unpleasent in dress and personality (such as, is a drunk, always wears a dirty shirt, is always complaining, is bitter about his life, is a high school dropout, etc.) as being the ones who espouse the racially unacceptable attitudes. While the liberal Jew character will be educated, likeable, sucessful, affable and attractive (having reaped the benefit of plastic surgeons nose-job specialists, I'm sure. Haw haw! Forgive that, couldn't resist that jab. :D ). Another trick I've come across is that characters that play societally successful people like surgeons, doctors, esteemed psychiatrist, etc. will invariably have Jewish names. While characters who play frazzled and over-worked fast food managers, Janitors, or gas station attendants will be whites with unmistakably gentile names.

Which brings up another point: Jews masking how many of them there are in our media, by that age old trick of changing their names. Many Americans are fooled by this, and simply don't know that Wolf Blitzer, Barbara Walters, Mike Wallace and John Stewart are all Jews. They used to say this was necessary to prevent themselves from being the victim of anti-semitism. However, in todays world, where the vast majority of westerners are eager to demonstrate their adherence to the views and attitudes of the Jew-dominated establishment, that excuse doesnt fly anymore. They are doing it to mask how many of them there are on the television. Its a means to fool people. So, I think one thing that can be done to help bring this realization to the unthinking masses is to expose this reality, and to casually point out to people as often as you can get away with doing, that some well known TV personality/actor/anchor/journalist/commentator is in fact a Jew. People know that Jews are only 2% to 3% of the population, and if the fact that there are so many #$^%$#& Jews on the boob tube, or on the silver screen becomes clear, people will know that thats fundamentally not right, and just MAY just being to wonder about things. I think many people will at least begin to wonder why there are so many Jews in positions of power and influence in our media, and what effect this is having on their broadcasts. Or they may just turn the channel and keep watching their soaps. But again I think one thing that we can do is point this reality out to them, as nonchalantly as we can, to bring this reality to them. Breaking down this "wall of denial" is going to have to be done one hammer-blow at a time.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.

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Postby Hektor » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:52 pm)

Hannover wrote:...
I know of no Revisionists who deny that. I know of no one who denies the fact that some Jews died.
...
There are however plenty of Holocaustians that would neglect, deny or justify that many Germans died as result of Allied atrocities.

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Postby driansmith » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:15 pm)

The question is not whether the Germans killed any Jews - they did - but whether any Jews were killed BECAUSE they were Jews. I've never seen any evidence to support that. Most Jews died because they were fighting the Nazis as partisans (whether they were fighting in Jewish, Communist, Social Democrat or nationalist groups) or because they got typhus or other illnesses in the camps.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:45 am)

ok driansmith, but ask yourself how they got into the camps? For a vacation? Would you like your family to suffer that fate? I'm a revisionist alright regarding the lies told about "the Holocaust" but I won't ignore that. Would you?

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:58 am)

Radar wrote:ok driansmith, but ask yourself how they got into the camps? For a vacation? Would you like your family to suffer that fate? I'm a revisionist alright regarding the lies told about "the Holocaust" but I won't ignore that. Would you?


I don't agree with the notion of people being put in camps; that goes for Germans or Jews or non-Jews such as Christians and others who were put in the Gulag complex.

However, I believe the reason was that the Jews were considered to be enemies of the Reich (or state) and had to be locked up until the war was over. The Germans constantly tried to find ways to deport them someplace else but nobody wanted to have them. So Hitler said to hell with it, we will sort it all out AFTER the war (he didn't say it exactly in those terms, but you get my point).

It was very unfortunate that many of the camps suffered typhus epidemics and general neglect as the war progressed towards the end. This neglect was however not something the Germans had in mind when they put these people in the camps; hence the constant research and innovative ways to combat typhus, diseases and other parasites.

I also can not stop thinking about Elie Wiesel's father being treated in a hospital at a "extermination centre", it surely is something astonishing. The Germans obviously tried to treat their inmates to the best of their abilities, not the other way around as it is claimed by lying "eyewitnesses" and shoddy history books.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jan 23, 2007 10:51 am)

Haldan old friend, I'm afraid that the Jews were not just put on hold in the eastern camps with a view to sorting it all out later. Hitler's plan was to remove them permanently from Europe, certainly Germany and German controlled territories, (he made this clear) and to do this by planting them in places like Madagascar, a plan dropped for practical reasons, even Palestine, again not possible because of British control of the area, and to finally to occupied Russia if the war went well for the Reich. The war did not go as planned and in the ultimate disaster many died in the chaos. The responsibility for this is on those who planned it and carried it out.

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Postby driansmith » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jan 27, 2007 2:44 am)

'the reason was that the Jews were considered to be enemies of the Reich'

Considered to be? They WERE enemies of the Reich. Viktor Klemperer and his wife opened a bottle of Sekt after hearing that the British had declared war on Germany. And he was a Jewish convert to Protestantism who even got paid his state pension until the very end of the war.

Talk about treasonous.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:48 pm)

driansmith,

If civilians can be arrested, deprived of their property, deported, herded into concentration camps for holding views contrary to the views of the regime in power then many of us are in trouble here in the United States for many of us are "traitors" in the current "war on terrorism" as seen by the current regime in Washington. Treason consists of actions far beyond what you describe and was not the motive for the treatment of the Jews.

Your theory would also have allowed the arrest of numerous civilians in various nations on the winning side in the WWII period as well as those on the losing side. Actually the US tried it with resident Japenese-American civilians and has admitted fault, a bit too late.

Unfortunately for your position all of this is illegal under international law and the various laws which govern the treatment of civilians in time of war.

Better come up with a better argument.

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Postby driansmith » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:11 am)

Radar, argument for what?

Looking back at the above thread, it's obvious that you wanted to change the subject. I never raised the issue of the morality or otherwise of the policy of putting people in concentration camps but for some reason you not only want to shift the discussion to that subject but also seem to think that I came out in favour of it when I hadn't expressed an opinion on the subject either way.

My final comment is that I wouldn't ever pretend to know what policies the Third Reich ought to have adopted during the war, and it wouldn't be worth my while worrying about them too much because I can't change the past anyway. Any 'theory' you think I have on the subject therefore exists only in your imagination.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Jan 28, 2007 12:10 pm)

Radar, this may be of interest if you have not seen it already:

To the generations (plural) of people having grown up -- like hot-house plants -- in the suffocating atmosphere of Holocaust propaganda, it may come as a surprise to learn that concentration camps are not illegal.

There is nothing in international law prohibiting concentration camps, even today.

http://www.cwporter.com/cc1.htm


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-haldan
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Postby diaz52 » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Jan 28, 2007 1:14 pm)

Haldan wrote:Radar, this may be of interest if you have not seen it already:

To the generations (plural) of people having grown up -- like hot-house plants -- in the suffocating atmosphere of Holocaust propaganda, it may come as a surprise to learn that concentration camps are not illegal.

There is nothing in international law prohibiting concentration camps, even today.

http://www.cwporter.com/cc1.htm


Best wishes,
-haldan


Well thats a frightening concept. One more 9-11 attack and I think this country will be ripe for re-introduing all kinds of whacked out policies. Hopefully I'm wrong, and hopefully there won't be another 9-11 type attack. But that site you cited, CW Porter's website, is a great resource for revisionists, and it can be quite humorous when he pokes holes and shows just how ridiculous and far-fetched some of the Holohoax claims are. My personal favorite is the claim that Germans would force Soviet prisoners to climb trees, and then force other prisoners to chop them down, thus killing those who climbed the trees. Haw haw!! Imagine the wasted man-hours achieved in that villainous procedure. Comic book Nazis have nothing on that one. Anyways its a very interesting site.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.


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