The Korherr Report: Where did they go?

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Turpitz
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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 7:20 am)

Revisionists in order to be successful will have to provide much better evidence than the orthodox historians.


It would help greatly if revisionists were allowed access to all archives, you have to ask why they are not.

Show me this evidence that the orthodox "conformist" historians "Lackeys" have produced to prove their murder, even the document does not mention murder.

but where were the death camp deportees brought to by the Nazis?


They were not "death camps" if you think they were, explain the workings of them to me.

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 9:52 am)

Hotzenplotz said:
I don't agree completely with you. The lack of the records for the trains that left is a good revisionist point, but the disappearance of the Treblinka-deportees still seems strange. I don't try to make an overall assessment of the revisionist position, it's just one point that needs to be addressed. From a strategical point of few, it won't help revisionists much to say that it's obvious anyway (exterminationists are much better at that). Revisionists in order to be successful will have to provide much better evidence than the orthodox hinstorians. That's unfair, but life is unfair...

I agree that they may have emmigrated to Israel, USA etc. later but where were the death camp deportees brought to by the Nazis? You don't believe they just left the camp by foot at the opposite side after being shaved? They must have been brought somewhere, and if the Korherr report is right, somewhere to the east. 1,2 million should have been noticed by the local population, even if the Jews stayed only for a couple of years...

Hotzenplotz,
You seem to be hopelessly going in circles.

- There is no evidence that they "disappeared". Got any?

- Ofcourse "they went somewhere" and it is clear the outgoing transport records are what curiously disappeared. That disappearance blows the entire claim out of the water. In fact, it indicts the 'holocau$t' Industry.

The rest of your points are trivial.

- Why should Revisionists engage in illogical efforts like the 'exterminationists'? The 'holocau$t' profiteering community makes the claim of 'extermination', they must show evidence for it. That is a key point of Revisionism 101 .... the shysters have no evidence for their claims. Why is that?

- On foot? Oh please, no strawmen. Missing transport records, Hotzenplotz.

- Who said the local populations didn't notice the ones that ended up in local villages? Ofcourse, in the ever so free Communist USSR, everyone was free to chat about whatever they liked, especially when it went against the endeavors of the manipulative and dangerous cadre. Yeah sure, right. And who was head of the nice little NKVD boy scouts?

- And who said they all went to local villages? The Communists had factories and labor camps aplenty, deep inside the interior.

Then the hammer comes down ... the entire matter is rendered irrelevant by the fact there is no physical evidence as alleged, no mass graves to support the story, and methods of alleged 'extermination' are simply laughable.

Hannover

Also please respond to Turpitz:
Show me this evidence that the orthodox "conformist" historians "Lackeys" have produced to prove their murder ...

They were not "death camps" if you think they were, explain the workings of them to me.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Hotzenplotz
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Postby Hotzenplotz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 10:57 am)

Turpitz wrote:They were not "death camps" if you think they were, explain the workings of them to me.


Sorry, I meant so-called death camps of course.

Hannover wrote:Who said the local populations didn't notice the ones that ended up in local villages? Ofcourse, in the ever so free Communist USSR, everyone was free to chat about whatever they liked, especially when it went against the endeavors of the manipulative and dangerous cadre. ...

That could be an explanation, though I don't find it entirely satisfactory. Not if assume that lots of those 1,2m emmigrated later to USA or Israel where they could have told their version of the Treblinka story. But there could be other explanations as well. I just asked for them.

Turpitz wrote:Show me this evidence that the orthodox "conformist" historians "Lackeys" have produced to prove their murder, even the document does not mention murder.

Hannover wrote:The 'holocau$t' profiteering community makes the claim of 'extermination', they must show evidence for it.

When I said you have to do better than exterminationists I was making a pragmatic point. It is a fact that if you want to convince the public one day, you need to have evidence for every detail of your version. I've tried to make a constructive proposal by indicating that this question needs to be addressed.

To put it bluntly:
They don't need evidence. They control the media. You need evidence.

Hotzenplotz
Last edited by Hotzenplotz on Sun May 08, 2005 2:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 11:28 am)

Hotzenplotz wrote: Revisionists in order to be successful will have to provide much better evidence than the orthodox hinstorians. That's unfair, but life is unfair...

There are not that many revisionists left. The constant persecutions by governments, resulting in career breaks, stiff monetary fines and long prison terms took their toll. At present there seems to be only one revisionist left: Carlo Mattogno.

And then something quite odd: Any attempt to shine light into the problem of the disappeared Jews who were allegedly deported to the so called extermination camps (Auschwitz, Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, Chelmno) apparently will be stopped by the German government. I am thinking here for example of Steffen Werner and his book “The Second Babylonian Captivity. The Fate of the Jews in eastern Europe since 1941”. http://vho.org/GB/Books/tsbc/index.html
Werner believes that there were huge population increases in certain areas of the Soviet Union, for example south/west of the town of Minsk.
All copies of the book were subsequently confiscated and burned by the German government.

Now why is that? The post war German governments were all anti-fascist, and many, like the present, were on the political left. The German government works very close with the east coast of the US and with Israel.

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Postby Hotzenplotz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 2:46 pm)

Thanks, Bergmann, for hinting to Werner's Book! It seemed at bit amateurish at first glance, but pretty soon I changed my mind; in fact, he seems to have some good analyses of how transports first went to the east (while Germany was expanding), and afterwards were reverted back into the Reich. What sense would that make if the Jews were to be exterminated? The important point for this discussion, though, is that there were, in fact, transports to Belorussia ("Generalbezirk Weißruthenien") and the Baltics.

Werner gives some sources, but transports of considerable size are mentioned even on exterminationist sites; e.g. one site (German),
http://www.deathcamps.org/occupation/ma ... ec_de.html
says:

Nach Ende der ersten Deportationen nach Minsk im November 1941 trafen zwischen Mai und Oktober 1942 16 Züge mit mehr als 15.000 Juden aus Deutschland, dem "Protektorat", Polen, Österreich und Frankreich auf dem Güterbahnhof von Minsk ein.

"After the end of the first deportations to Minsk in November 1941 16 trains with more than 15.000 Jews from Germany, the 'Protektorat', Poland, Austria and France arrived between May and October of 1942 at the goods station of Minsk."

And there were more!

Before, I thought it was improbable that there were working railway connections to Belorussia during the war, but obviously there were.

Werner writes:
A further notice is extremely unvealing [sic]. According to a dispatch from General Commissioner Kube dated on July 31, 1942 and addressed to the Reichskommissar for the Ostland Lohse, a transport of 1000 Jews arrived in Minsk from Warsaw on the same date.[170] The evacuation of the Warsaw Jews began on July 22, 1942.[171] All these transports went through Treblinka and it is general knowledge that all these people were exterminated at Treblinka. Apparently, at least one train did arrive in Minsk!

That's exactly the type of report I was looking for. That means that, contrary to what is generally claimed, not everybody was gassed in Treblinka. If it was at least partly a transfer camp and the strong exterminationist claim is false, then it seems likely it is altogether false, considering all the other contradictory evidence resp. lack of evidence. (Werner gives as reference IMT, Vol. XXXII, 3428 - PS, p. 282, which I couldn't check yet)

Hotzenplotz
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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 3:58 pm)

Hi Hotzenplotz,

I've followed your logic through this entire thread, and what you're saying and asking makes sense. And indeed you're hitting into some fresh research and assertions! Keep working on it!

The one thing is that revisionists aren't really always going to be able to offer a different version of events.

Revisionists can say "this didn't happen. Here's why"

But a lot more difficult will be to say "this is what really happened." Sometimes revisionists can do that, and sometimes not. There's not that many of us. Our group wasn't involved in preserving records, and their group was involved in destroying them. As Hannover said,
Ofcourse "they went somewhere" and it is clear the outgoing transport records are what curiously disappeared. That disappearance blows the entire claim out of the water. In fact, it indicts the 'holocau$t' Industry.


At this point if there is a revisionist with resources to do research, anything that could be found would likely be by accident. Something they overlooked to destroy.

Anyway, keep pursuing your questions and searching for answers!

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun May 08, 2005 6:40 pm)

:) If you live in new york,pick up a yellow pages and go to the lawyer section and you will find a large amount of "STEINS" and "BERGS".I'll bet these lawyers are all desendants of european jews who either emigrated or survived the war.There go some of them for you.They are probably so scattered about all over the place,who could tell?

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 2:00 am)

Show me this evidence that the orthodox "conformist" historians "Lackeys" have produced to prove their murder, even the document does not mention murder.


They don't need evidence. They control the media.


Not quite the answer I was hoping for, but very revealing all the same.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 10:19 am)

Hotzenplotz said:
That's exactly the type of report I was looking for. That means that, contrary to what is generally claimed, not everybody was gassed in Treblinka.

Not everybody? There is no evidence for any gassings at Treblinka.

Stop dodging the hard questions, Hotzenplotz. Give your best evidence for any alleged gassings at Treblinka. How the process worked and where is the alleged enormous mass grave? Explain to this forum how they 'disappeared'. No more waffling.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Hotzenplotz
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Postby Hotzenplotz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 11:02 am)

Hannover,

you continue to misunderstand my intention. I am not dodging but as I think I made clear I'm trying to find answers to some questions. I am not aware of that I have said somewhere there definitely were gassings at Treblinka (or anywhere). Nevertheless, I can't see what should be wrong with seeking answers that do arise if one assumes there were no gassings. I don't understand why you are reacting to my approach in a negative way, since what I am doing is ultimately helpful to your position. The more answers you find, the more convincing it will be. Since you will have noticed that your stance is not very widely accepted, your position needs further explanations. This, as I have said, is a pragmatic, not a normative point: It's the way the situation de facto is, not the way it should be.

This is not "waffling" either. For me this is about finding out, not about winning the discussion. I have questions and I try to find answers to my questions. If you are not interested in my questions I regret that but perhaps you still let me pursue the topics that interest me.

I hope this helps.

Hotzenplotz
"Repetition reinforces the primary messages of the religion in participants’ minds."

-Michael C. Howard, Contemporary Cultural Anthropology

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 11:37 am)

Hotzenplotz,

Nothing negative about straight talk. Please stop deflecting.

Yes or no, do you think there were gassings at Treblinka?

Do you think that Jews were dumped into an enormous mass grave as alleged?

Do you think there is evidence for gassing of 900,000 Jews at Treblinka?

Have you physical evidence thay you can show us? Yes or No.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 2:00 pm)

I really think Hotzenplotz is pursuing an interesting angle. If he can show that some trains passed through Treblinka and went to other places, that does make a dent in the Treblinka story. I think that is what he's looking for. Yes, they would have destroyed those records, but maybe in some cases they didn't. Like that train to Minsk that is mentioned on this thread.

I don't think Hotzenplotz is dodging or deflecting. He's just asking for help in pursuing an angle of inquiry.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 2:21 pm)

Well, that's your opinion, CCS. I don't see the questions answered that are asked. I see distraction, obfuscation, and subject changing. I suggest you read the challenges made, and then the responses/non-responses.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 2:34 pm)

I have read all of Hotzenplotz's posts and what I see is a non-believer trying to make sure there are no holes in revisionist work. Revisionists need to be this self-critical. I don't see how he's dodging anything because he has made no attempt to seriously defend any Big H myths.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon May 09, 2005 4:08 pm)

Please keep in mind that Hotzenplotz didn't come on this thread and say "there is a huge mass grave at Treblinka."

To have Germans here is beneficial, because they can give us their point of view, translate things etc.

But please consider that they might feel a little hesitation to come out and say "there is no mass grave at Treblinka" Why? Because their culture is law-abiding and they might be aware that by posting that, they are "broadcasting" something to an international audience that is against German Law.

They're going after Zundel due to his website and how that could be seen in Gerrmany. Could you blame Hotzenplotz if he had some hesitation to Middle Ages-ishly deny the mass graves at Treblinka?


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