The Leichenkeller Inventory List

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Hebden
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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 8 years ago (Thu Mar 27, 2003 2:50 pm)

Sailor wrote:The other question I forgot to ask on the subject matter: Should'n't there be a similar inventory list as I posted above for Leichenkeller 1 Krema II for Leichenkeller 1 of Krema III also? Does anyone know?
Or maybe the fellow who prepared the list for Krema II forgot Krema III? Maybe?
:D


We have already addressed the problem of the non-identical inventories but here anyway is the inventory for K III:

Image

Numbers are written in the column for tap numbers, but, frustratingly, we
cannot quite make them out at this resolution although the number for LK
II does look like a 5. Given that K II and KIII were supposedly built to the same plan, we should expect LK I to have 3 taps listed and LK II to have 5
(unless the same transposition error occurred as alleged happened with the other inventory).

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 8 years ago (Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:18 pm)

Hebden wrote:We have already addressed the problem of the non-identical inventories but here anyway is the inventory for K III:

I don't want to unnecessarily repeat something. Could you point out in which thread this was discussed? There are so many threads already.
I have a problem with this inventory list. (forget about the number of water taps).
:D

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 8 years ago (Fri Mar 28, 2003 2:55 am)

Sailor wrote:
Hebden wrote:We have already addressed the problem of the non-identical inventories but here anyway is the inventory for K III:

I don't want to unnecessarily repeat something. Could you point out in which thread this was discussed? There are so many threads already.
I have a problem with this inventory list. (forget about the number of water taps).
:D


Mr. Sailor, just proceed to make your point. We are no strangers to repetition on this board.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 8 years ago (Fri Mar 28, 2003 6:38 pm)

So then according to these inventory lists, Krematorium 2 (BW KGL30) has some 36 lights and lamps, 9 water taps, 4 Holzblenden and 4 Drahtnetzvorrichtungen. And Krematorium II (III) (BW KGL30a) has some 44 lights and lamps, 9 water taps, 14 Brausen (showers) and 1 gas-tight door. And that is all.

Neither one shows the furnaces, the crematorium gas generators, the forced air eqipment for the furnaces, the electrical power distribution equipment and motor starters (They used then Y/Delta switches), none show any coke handling equipment. And no crematorium ovens with those muffles on the main floor.
This is for an inventory lists rather incomplete.

The fellow who wrote the description for these lists at the THHP site (From where these lists come from) seems to believe that the designation Krematorium II is rather III.
Image
He may be right.

In his opinion the shower heads ar dummies. How one can conclude this from the inventory list I simply don’t understand.

What I find odd though is that the list for Krema III does not show the "Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtungen" and "Holzblenden." (wire-mesh insertion devices and wooden covers) as is shown for Krema II.

Am I missing something?
:D

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 8 years ago (Fri Mar 28, 2003 7:42 pm)

Sailor wrote:So then according to these inventory lists, Krematorium 2 (BW KGL30) has some 36 lights and lamps, 9 water taps, 4 Holzblenden and 4 Drahtnetzvorrichtungen. And Krematorium II (III) (BW KGL30a) has some 44 lights and lamps, 9 water taps, 14 Brausen (showers) and 1 gas-tight door. And that is all.

Neither one shows the furnaces, the crematorium gas generators, the forced air eqipment for the furnaces, the electrical power distribution equipment and motor starters (They used then Y/Delta switches), none show any coke handling equipment. And no crematorium ovens with those muffles on the main floor.
This is for an inventory lists rather incomplete.


Mr. Hans makes the point elsewhere that the inventories refer only to the basement level. Presumably because the number of rooms or spaces listed on the left hand side totals just 6.

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Postby Hebden » 1 decade 8 years ago (Sat Mar 29, 2003 3:46 am)

It has been pointed out to us that the inventories actually specify the Kellergeschoß (basement). Mr. Hans' eyesight must be good.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 8 years ago (Sun Mar 30, 2003 5:41 am)

Hans is correct, it does say underneath the Bauwerk Nr. (building designation) KGL 30 and KGL 30a: “Kellergeschoß”. It is a bit difficult to decipher.

Still, there was ventilation equipment provided for both morgues 1 and 2 and the five big furnaces, the forced air blowers and the electrical control equipment. But not a word about these in the lists.

And what happened to the inventory lists for the rest of the crematorium building? Why are we only fed that part of the list that may possibly be interpreted in favor of the extermination doctrine, and not the rest of the document?

Another point about the crematoriums that bothers me is their destruction: Who disassembled the crematorium equipment and subsequently, who dynamited the buildings?

The conventional story is that the SS did this in order to destroy the evidence of their misdeeds.

Topf engineer Prüfer during his interrogation by Captain Schatanowski and Major Moruschenko of SMERSH on March 5, 1946 however stated:

I was ordered by the SS-leadership to disassemble the crematoriums of the camp Auschwitz and to pack the equipment as well as the brick work carefully for the transfer to another location. In my opinion this was because the front came closer. Although I did on all my trips what was necessary in order to fulfill the instructions of the SS-leadership of the concentration camp, but the latter I could not complete, because there was no labor force, and therefore the crematoriums were not taken apart.

If Prüfer did not take the crematorium apart, then who did?

Did the SS with the help of 900 Heizers may be? They could have worked in 2 or 3 shifts, and probably did not work very hard at it either.

Or did the Soviets do this with the help of German POW’s (Auschwitz served as a Soviet POW camp after the war)? They were in the habit at that time to take all the mechanical equipment which they could lay their hands on in territories occupied by them apart and shipped it to the Soviet Union (I worked for Siemens Schuckert and the Russians stripped everything from our factories in Berlin, mainly the dynamo and switchgear works, all machine tools, plus lighting fixtures and toilets). And the disaasembled crematorium equipment from Birkenau was never found as far as I know.

And I always wondered how they would have moved the furnaces during disassembly from the basements. How did they get them upstairs? Were there any hatches provided in the ceiling? The drawings don’t show any. The furnaces with the gas generators came as units, completely assembled in the Topf factory in Erfurt, they must have been quite heavy.
:D

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Re: The Leichenkeller Inventory List

Postby Toshiro » 9 years 10 months ago (Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:12 pm)

Forgive me for this eight year bump, but, is it possible that these Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung refer to:

The ventilation system of Leichenkeller 1 in Kr III was “improved” as compared with that of Kr II, by having an increased number of fresh air inlets. On 18th February, 50 perforated galvanized plates, 7 x 18 cm, had been ordered for Leichenkeller 1 of Kr II (for the air inlets near the ceiling, spaced at intervals of 120 cm) and on 19th an unknown number of protection "grills" of 10 mm diameter iron rod (for the air extraction ducts, near the floor). These two orders were completed on 15th March [...] Still on 15th March, an order was issued for Leichenkeller I of Kr III for 95 perforated zinc plates. 7 x 18 cm, (for the upper air inlets, here spaced at 60 cm intervals) and for 45 10 mm iron rod protection "grills" (for the lower, air extraction ducts and spaced about every 150 cm). The order was completed on 23rd March.

Source: AUSCHWITZ: Technique and operation of the gas chambers, Jean-Claude Pressac, page 234

A photo of this plate:
Image
Rear view of one of the 145 galvanized plates, perforated by hand, which were set into and nailed to the wooden fresh air ducts in the upper part of Leichenkeller 1 of Krematorien II and III

Source: Ibid., page 233

A Google image search of "perforated wire mesh plate" produces similar images. However, I'm not sure what relation would the 4 Holzblenden have to these plates. Were there any special openings in Leichenkeller 2 other than the ventilation ducts? Perhaps these 4 Drahtnetzeinschiebvorrichtung and Holzblenden were meant to protect the ventilation motors or some such?

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Re: The Leichenkeller Inventory List

Postby Toshiro » 9 years 10 months ago (Sun Jun 05, 2011 7:14 am)

"which were set into and nailed to the wooden fresh air ducts"

Could these "wooden fresh air ducts" be the "Holzblenden"?

I found some pictures of Holzblenden for car control panels/gear boxes.

2552c5d.png

Here's one for a Mercedes-Benz W210:
http://www.db-forum.de/forum/biete/3641 ... -w210.html

Here's one for a Jaguar XJ40:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie ... 7774696686

You can find all sorts of Holzblenden for cars here.

So, could the Krema II Holzblenden look similar to these, and the wire mesh were "set into" and nailed to them?
Last edited by Toshiro on Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: The Leichenkeller Inventory List

Postby Zulu » 9 years 10 months ago (Wed Jun 08, 2011 6:47 am)

About those usual "isolated papers" which are submitted by exterminationists...

1. Where are ALL the similar inventory lists referring to KII and III available to be seen?
2. Why would we suppose that it is an "error" that those 4 artifacts are referring to Leichenkeller 2 - exterminationist "undressing room" - and not L1, exterminationist "gas chamber"?
3. Where are the documents which show the 4 "holes on the ceiling" where those supposed 4 "introduction columns" should have been mounted at L1? All the drawings we have show nothing at all even on plans of KII and III modified on 29th September 1943.
4. Where are the documents which define those artifacts if they had to be manufactured at the workshops? The order of service, the requisition of material, etc...
5. Where are the documents referring to those 4 artifacts if they were provided by external suppliers? Definition, call for offers, suplliers's offers, orders, invoices, etc...

So, I am afraid that a lot of paper is missing which could allow to make a valuable interpretation about those things...

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Re: The Leichenkeller Inventory List

Postby Moderator3 » 9 years 10 months ago (Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:53 pm)

Hans:
Your response, which was simply 'so & so said so', will not cut it here. Tell us what they supposedly said in regards to the leichenkeller inventory list.

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Re: The Leichenkeller Inventory List

Postby Toshiro » 9 years 10 months ago (Tue Jun 14, 2011 5:02 am)

Their testimonies differed in regard that one claimed the covers were from concrete (Tauber), another claimed they were from metal (Erber), a third one claimed they were from glass (Lengyel). Then they differed in regard that one claimed there were two openings (Feinsilber/Jankoswki), another claimed there were three openings (Janda Weiss), others claimed four, one claimed there was one every 30 meters (!?) (Nyiszli). They also differed in regard of how the gas was introduced (pellets dropped on their heads (Vrba), gas bombs (Tabeau), etc.) and the colouring of the victims afterwards (green (Kula), blue (Gerstein, Davidowicz, Nyiszli), pink with green spots (Hilberg), none (Höss)).

So the testimonies themselves contradict each other. It's like one witness in a murder trial would claim the perpetrator used a knife, another would claim a gun was used, and a third would claim a chainsaw was used. The validity of the witnesses would be seriously questioned.

I think it's fitting if I quote Bruno Baum, a Jewish communist propagandist:
Die ganze Propaganda, die dann im Ausland um Auschwitz einsetzte, war von uns, mit Hilfe unserer polnischen Kameraden, entfacht.

Ich glaube, es ist keine Übertreibung, wenn ich sage, daß der größte Teil der Auschwitzpropaganda, die um diese Zeit in der Welt verbreitet wurde, von uns im Lager selbst geschrieben worden ist.

Diese Propaganda in der Weltöffentlichkeit führten wir bis zum letzten Tage unseres Auschwitzer Aufenthaltes durch.

[translation]
"All the propaganda which started abroad about Auschwitz was started by us with the help of our Polish comrades.

I believe it is no exaggeration when I say that the largest part of the Auschwitz propaganda, which was at the time circulating throughout the world, was written by us in the camp itself.

We continued with this world-wide propaganda up until the last day of our stay at Auschwitz. "


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