Balsamo wrote:Of course he was, but as an outsider. mentioning Lublin is no wonder as it was already a center of regroupment for Jews in 1939-40...as the General Government was not part of the Reich, thus the Jews there were already outside the Reich (Germany)...
Here we are already in the second part of the Solution and the removal from the occupied Poland...
We agree, he was familiar with it, good.
The rest is irrelevant, we and Göbbels are debating deportations from
Lublin, not to Lublin or some concentration of Jews in Lublin, so history of this place is irrelevant, my point was about proving that he was familiar with deportation policy from
Balsamo wrote:You can understand it as you want. I understand that this second deportation is a barbaric procedure that cannot be described, now of course if you can show me in anyway a convincing destination and what eastward means, then fine.
But we are not debating about how we understand to something, if you disagree with provided explanation or evidence, tell me what is wrong or refute it, I do not accept telling me “understand it as you want, I will understand it as I want”, I prefer to reach some conclusion and not this since this looks more like a dodging.
I am sorry, but Göbbels did not say anything closer about these deported Jews, thus I cannot tell you their final destination.
Balsamo wrote:Meanwhile, if to liquidate means transfer, then all 100% of those Jews were concerned, and there would have been no need for Joseph to make a distinction. But how other exemple can you provide were used to deport people (not the Getthos, i mean people) ?
But I did not say that liquidation in this case means “transfer”, i.e. - every common transfer, because this would be a nonsense. I repeatedly stated, that liquidation in this case means “transfer/deportation/removing to the east and they will never return back - moved out of the GG and they will never return back." thus he had to make a distinction since some Jews able to work will not be deported/liquidated but used for labor, and the rest will be deported in accordance with their policy quoted in the document related to Belzec and Lublin Jews and Göbbels was familiar with it, admitted by you, see above.
Balsamo wrote:No, not criminal, just too barabric to be described...
This is not written in the diary.
Balsamo wrote:I unfortunatly don't have the second volume of his diaries yet...but i would really appreciate if you could find a quote from him describing the deportation of the Jews of Berlin as a barbaric procedure.
I doubt very much that he was in Lublin to witness the process...i maybe wrong...but could be that he just relying on hearsays.
I doubt he described what this barbaric procedure means, I guess we would have known about it already, but I provided you with my explanation what he probably considered as barbaric. If he didn´t witness it and based i on hearsay, then this passage in diary is even less important.
Balsamo wrote:It does not fit. Auschwitz, Birkenau, Maidanek, (as well as Treblinka, Sobibor, Chelmno and Belzec) were all in the GG. I am not aware that those places were evacuated to clean the German sphere of influence[...]
Auschwitz and Auschwitz-Birkenau was not in the General Government. Chelmno, again, not in the General Government, both located in the Greater Germany
I have noticed that I wrongly placed
Chelmno to GG, when I included Chelmno in the brackets together with Belzec and I did not realized that brackets refers exclusively to the GG. I am sorry.
Who said they were evacuated and for what reason? Me not, thus I cannot say anything about it.
T-B-S-CH served as transit camps, i.e. as points which take care of evacuation from other places. Auschwitz and Majdanek were concentration camps and labor camps, but they served as transit camps too.
Balsamo wrote:[...]the German sphere of influence, which is what by the way ? Occupied territories up to Stalingrad ? Do you find it logic to move million of Jews - considered as terrorist on the eastern front - to the very same eastern front ?
No, when i spoke about evacuation from German sphere, I meant Greater Germany and General Government. Since I didn´t say anything about deportation of Jews on the eastern front, I cannot answer.
Balsamo wrote:Goebbels was quite a precise man, if he would have wanted to say "not much will remains of the Jews in the GG, he would have said it, and proven wrong...
I consider as nonsense to repeat what he already said in the preceding sentence and what is clear from the context: “[...]deported eastward from the Government-General. The procedure is pretty barbaric, and one that beggars description, and there’s not much left of the Jews.”
When I apply your logic, his entry in the diary should have to looks like this:“Beginning with Lublin the Jews are now being deported eastward [name of some location] from the Government-General. The procedure is pretty barbaric in Lublin and Government-General, and one that beggars description in Lublin and Government-General, and there’s not much left of the Jews in Lublin and Government-General. Broadly speaking one can probably say that sixty percent of them will have to be liquidated in [name of some location], while only forty percent can be put to work in [name of some location].”
Also he didn´t write a report for others, but a personal diary. Do you have a diary? Do you often write entries and thinks “I must clarify it enough for others who will read my diary”?
Balsamo wrote:And again, the fact that he still speaks about Madagascar 1942 - A Plan from the Polish Government in 1937 - only shows how little his role and influence regarding those matters were. So maybe he just spoke to another source the days before...who knows? There are may times in his memoirs when he quotes silly numbers btw...Simple truth that he just did not know.
Plan from the Polish Government from 1937? Do not know anything about this, feel free to source it.
Madagascar plan as a location for “Final Solution” was as a project abandoned or put to rest by the Germans on February 10, 1942 
and Göbbels´entry is from March 7, 1942 and he used word “maybe” or “say” and placed this solution after the war, thus he was probably familiar with the news about this plan during this time, but he still personally considered it as a one possibility after the war.
Thus Göbbels´ entry is not silly at all and he knew it very well.
Balsamo wrote:Considering this, i found the ganglere approach to be a more efficient approach [...]
But his adopted theory from other user about how the diary or maybe only some passages are fake does not hold much water, i already raised some objections, I am waiting to see them addressed. I am also missing some explanation why my theory or actually a theory explained previously by Carlo Mattogno is wrong.
Balsamo wrote:Goebbels was in no position to interfere with the Shoah process. All he could do is to get some information from some people more close to the case and write them down.
As the Shoah didn´t exist and there is no connection, is this irrelevant, what is relevant, he was familiar with the deportation policy as shown, this is important to understand to meanings of these passages which are in accordance with it.
P.S. - I am still missing some answers from you:Can you provide me with evidence for your claim that 60% of these people will lost their life and that was the meaning of that passage?
My simple question for you, do you consider as barbaric the aspects of deportation listed by me?
Maps - jewishvirtuallibrary.org
Note by Fritz Rademacher from the Foreign Ministry, NG-5770.