claimed Srebrenica 'mass grave' / Where? / So familar.

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9969
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

claimed Srebrenica 'mass grave' / Where? / So familar.

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 24, 2005 12:38 pm)

Here's a story I just saw, it's claims are relevant to phoney claims of the 'holocau$t'. My comments [- - - -].

Seven Bosnian Serbs arrested over Srebrenica massacre
Fri Jun 24,2005

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050624/wl ... icaarrests

Seven Bosnian Serbs, some of them police officers, have been arrested for alleged involvement in the 1995 Srebrenica massacre on the orders of the attorney general.

"In the past two days police arrested seven people who are linked with war crimes in Srebrenica," a senior Bosnian Serb police officer who requested anonymity told AFP.

"Some of the people arrested are police officers," he said Friday, adding that the operation was still going on in the area of Srebrenica, some 70 kilometers (40 miles) northeast of Sarajevo.

"Bosnian Serb police are intensifying their activities following a request from Bosnia's state attorney's office," police spokesman Radovan Pejic told AFP without elaborating.

The state attorney's office refused to comment.

The arrests come ahead of the 10th anniversary ceremony of the Srebrenica massacre, Europe's worst atrocity since World War II, to be held on July 11. [they just had to imply 'holocau$t' .... no evidence for such a claim]

Some 8,000 Muslim men and boys were killed when Bosnian Serb forces and irregular Serbian police units overran the UN-protected enclave of Srebrenica. [Where's the claimed mass grave to see?]

The alleged masterminds of the worst slaughter in Europe since World War II -- [not once but twice, again no evidence] Bosnian Serb wartime leader Radovan Karadzic and his former army chief, Ratko Mladic -- remain on the run.

[Notice below, this is best they can do is show ONE skeleton, and even that we can't be sure where it came from.]

caption to photo:
A mass grave in Zvornik contains hundreds of victims of the 1995 Srebrenica massacre. Seven Bosnian Serbs have been arrested for alleged involvement in the Srebrenica massacre.(AFP/File/Hrvoje Polan)

[Hundreds? What happened to the claimed thousands upon thousands?]

Image


It appears we have similar claims made for alleged mass graves like those within the 'holocau$t' mythology. They do no exist as the storyline claims.

also see:
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2048

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

elvistheelf
Member
Member
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Nov 03, 2003 11:59 am

Postby elvistheelf » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 24, 2005 4:41 pm)

Is Hannover really denying that the massacre at Srebrenica happened? I am sure that the witnesses (Bosnian, UN and Serb), investigators, forensics experts and pathologists who have spent years investigating this crime would be fascinated by his detailed, intelligent analysis. Perhaps he could ask them about the mass graves that have been found containing the bodies of men and boys, shot in the back, who have been positively identified as having been from Srebrenica. Hannover, your post does you no credit and does the cause of "revisionism" great harm.

Elvis

Richard Perle
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:45 am

Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 24, 2005 5:31 pm)

I noticed that recently found video of half a dozen or so people being shot is supposedly proof of genocide.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9969
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 24, 2005 9:46 pm)

elvis said:
Is Hannover really denying that the massacre at Srebrenica happened? I am sure that the witnesses (Bosnian, UN and Serb), investigators, forensics experts and pathologists who have spent years investigating this crime would be fascinated by his detailed, intelligent analysis. Perhaps he could ask them about the mass graves that have been found containing the bodies of men and boys, shot in the back, who have been positively identified as having been from Srebrenica. Hannover, your post does you no credit and does the cause of "revisionism" great harm.

Typical strawman argument from the desperate. I'm saying the story as it is alleged cannot be substantiated, simple; and it can't, certainly not by you, elvis. If there's so much information about it then why don't they/you show it?

What mass grave? Come on elvis, show us the thousands upon thousands that are allegedly in this mass grave. Not the relatively small, military deaths, but as the story alleges. You can't elvis; nor can you provide evidence at this forum for the 'holocau$t' you believe in. Hence the connection to Srebrenica.

Me, cause Revisionism great harm? That's absured. Myself and those at this forum can shred you and your fellow Believers anytime, anywhere. Go ahead, elvis, start some threads on specifics, not your usual waffle & dodge silliness, but specifics. And then show us verifiable 'holocau$t' mass graves excavations while your at it. You can't, you know it, we know it.

Sorry to be so blunt, but you asked for it.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Turpitz
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 975
Joined: Sun May 11, 2003 12:57 pm

Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jun 25, 2005 5:32 pm)

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics ... 30,00.html


Downing Street has admitted to The Observer that repeated claims by Tony Blair that '400,000 bodies had been found in Iraqi mass graves' is untrue, and only about 5,000 corpses have so far been uncovered.

The claims by Blair in November and December of last year, were given widespread credence, quoted by MPs and widely published, including in the introduction to a US government pamphlet on Iraq's mass graves.

In that publication - Iraq's Legacy of Terror: Mass Graves produced by USAID, the US government aid distribution agency, Blair is quoted from 20 November last year: 'We've already discovered, just so far, the remains of 400,000 people in mass graves.'

On 14 December Blair repeated the claim in a statement issued by Downing Street in response to the arrest of Saddam Hussein and posted on the Labour party website that: 'The remains of 400,000 human beings [have] already [been] found in mass graves.'

Juan
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 219
Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2004 11:11 am
Location: Chile

Postby Juan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Jun 26, 2005 3:18 pm)

Uncovering the lies of today can enlighten us about the lies of yesterday.

User avatar
ClaudiaRothenbach
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 569
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2004 2:16 pm

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:52 am)

elvistheelf wrote:... I am sure that the witnesses (Bosnian, UN and Serb), investigators, forensics experts and pathologists who have spent years investigating this crime ... Perhaps he could ask them about the mass graves that have been found containing the bodies of men and boys, shot in the back, who have been positively identified as having been from Srebrenica. ...
Elvis


I ask them!

Where is the documentation? Are there photos?

Something like this? http://www.katyn.org.au/naziphotos.html

Image

Image

I expect a documentation like this. Not a photo of one skeleton. Ridiculous!
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

grenadier
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:07 am

Postby grenadier » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jun 27, 2005 2:32 pm)

It seems that while in the later conflict at Kosovo, the number of mass graves and the numbers of victims found were much smaller than what was claimed, the evidence for Srebrenica is somewhat stronger.
An article at http://www.gendercide.org/case_srebrenica.html states:

Extensive forensic investigations of the Srebrenica massacre sites has so far turned up some 3,000 bodies. Only a few have been successfully identified. They are held at a combined memorial and mortuary in Tuzla.


At http://www.hri.ca/tribune/viewArticle.asp?ID=2712

In the spring of 1996, the OTP dispatched a team of forensic scientists to Srebrenica to investigate the massacre and to find evidence to support the charges of genocide. By the end of 1996, the scientists had unearthed and autopsied approximately 517 bodies and assorted ‘disarticulated body parts’. After determining the cause and manner of death, the bodies, all unidentified, were released to local Bosnian authorities. Lacking the resources to grapple with the remains, the local authorities placed them in an abandoned tunnel.


they proceed to say that:

Throughout 1998 and 1999, the Office of the Prosecutor and local Bosnian investigators recovered thousands of bodies and body parts from the hills of Srebrenica.


Of course one has to be wary of such articles because sometimes, upon a closer look, not all is well with them. Note for instance, that while the first article claims some(vague) 3000 bodies, the second talks about bodies and body parts. How many then, were really found? I remember an article by Reuters i think, saying large mass graves had been discovered by american and iraqui investigators and it said they were graves for 4000(if i remember right) people. The same article then, stated that the investigation of cited mass graves were almost done and some 100 corpses had been found??!! A complete contradiction of what their 4000!!

In the case of Srebrenica my personal opinion is that something very bad really happened there. It should be said that muslim Bosnians also comitted some atrocities against Bosnian-serb civilians.

grenadier
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 251
Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 9:07 am

Postby grenadier » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:43 pm)

As a follow-up to my previous post, i´m posting parts of some articles i´ve found plus some links where they can be read in their entirety. They show a lot of the inconsistensies and lack of hard evidence regarding the alleged Srebrenica massacre. Annoyingly however, is the fact that in some of the articles we'll find the authors inpplying the holocaust was the real thing, etc. Example:

Prof. Jovanovic also sent Emperor's Clothes a short memoir concerning his experience as a boy in Nazi occupied Yugoslavia. which can be read at http://globalresistance.com/letters/letterj.htm Here Prof. Jovanovic dealt with real genocide, as opposed to the Rohde's unsubstantiated claims.


It´s funny though, to consider that if the authors had applied the same degree of healthy skepticism they used regarding Srebrenica, with regards to the holocaust, they would conclude it was a hoax too!! My comments [---].

http://globalresistance.com/articles/pu ... enica.html

The NY Times in referring back to that session of the UN Security Council wrote:

"On Aug. 10, [1995] the chief United States delegate to the United Nations, Madeleine K. Albright, showed selected photos of the two sites to a closed session of the United Nations Security Council. She then said, 'We will keep watching to see if the Bosnian Serbs try to erase the evidence of what they have done.'"
One of the earlier versions was the vanishing corpses through a corrosive agent. In the same article, the NY Times adds:

"American officials said today that they suspect Bosnian Serb soldiers may have tried to destroy evidence that they killed thousands of Muslim men[ we have seen this one before! ] seized in and around the town of Srebrenica in July. The Serbs are suspected of pouring corrosive chemicals[ substitute corrosive chemicals for gigantic pyres and pits! ] on the bodies and scattering corpses that had been buried in mass graves, the officials said. The suspicions first arose in early August, after Central Intelligence Agency experts analyzed pictures of the area taken in July by reconnaissance satellites and U-2 planes."
With the absence of traces of a corrosive substance, when it comes time to dig up the "evidence," the entire legend falls flat. Another explanation had to be found: the bodies were simply dug up and moved someplace else. This excuse has its advantages: With the needle in the haystack search for "mass graves," the tribunal could keep the public at bay for quite a while. But also disadvantages: How do you remove thousands of buried, decomposing bodies without being seen by the "watchful eye" of Madeleine Albright's satellites? Undismayed by this factual detail, the Tribunal and media continue their course.


the next quotes are interesting because they tie in with holocauster's question:"if they are not dead, where are they?"

To maintain the myth of a gigantic massacre, is not only necessary to create the illusion of having proof that it did happen – thus the frantic searches for mass graves - but also to suppress the proof that it did not take place - which means prohibit that too many of the prisoners of war return "from the dead."

The figure of 3,000, given by the Red Cross, listed as having been arrested by Bosnian Serb forces, which is counted into the media's 8,000 "massacred," should also be taken with a grain of salt. One learns - again through isolated articles - that they too not only were not massacred, but that the Red Cross, the United Nations, and a host of "western" governments around the world all were well aware of this fact.


Concerning recovered remains :

...examining the work of the Tribunal in The Hague, which is why it will be extensively quoted.

Deep in a remote rural stretch of Bosnia, war-crimes investigators have found a tangle of buried bodies that they say is the remains of some of the 7,500 Muslim men that were hidden to try to thwart the prosecution of Bosnian Serb leaders for genocide. (...)
Exhumations in 1996 recovered 460 bodies, but 7,500 others were still missing from the town of Srebrenica. Finding the others has been the goal of war-crimes investigators for more than two years.[self-explanatory, besides a lot of serb civilians were also killed in the area.]


Some of the links:

http://globalresistance.com/articles/pu ... enica.html
http://globalresistance.com/docs/refutat.htm

In conclusion i think a certain pattern emerges from these events(massacres of unarmed civilians) where one can detect: distortions, misrepresentation, exageration and even outright fabrications!
The alleged einsatzgruppen mass shootings and the massacre of Nanking come to mind!

Richard Perle
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 647
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:45 am

Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:33 pm)

It seems to me that some of these graves could contain simply war dead - soldiers and collateral damage (civilians).

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9969
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Jun 28, 2005 4:57 pm)

I believe it was a Finnish forensics team that surmised that what dead they did find were a result of military action. The bodies contained gun powder traces indicative of weapons firing.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

crazyplant
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:07 am

Postby crazyplant » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:47 am)

......PLEASE READ THIS THROUGH, BUT EVERYTHING......
Hello! Recently i have seen your comments about Srebrenica slaughter. I wanted once and for all to clear out your doubts, like the one that massacre didnt happend. It think that it is ridiculous that some of you think that way.
Of course it happened!!! i think you will be sure after you read the following:

I am from Bosnia and i have lived here all the time during the war. I have seen everything that happened and Srebrenica Slaughter did happen.
In April 1995 the UN declared Srebrenica first Safe Zone because of its position and lots of innocent people in there. They even invited Dutch forces to protect Srebrenica. On 11th Of July, the Serb army broke into Srebrenica and occupied it. They captured Dutch army and imprisioned them. The Serb army tighen their stronghold/circle around Srebrenica. First night, 5000 people were gunned or dead suffering from tortures they were going trough. When I said people I meant men. A lot of them were beaten to death. Someone said that he say video of shooting people 6 people. That happened and it was small fragment of killing in "UN Safe Zone". Those people were identified by their mothers and sisters recently.
To continue, next day, another 5000 people were killed when trying to flee trough woods searching for escape.
Maybe you didnt hear about it but in Bosnia and Herzegowina there were hundreds and hundreds of massive crypts, buried deep into the ground, burnt or spilled with acid and chemical poisons. To make proof of this, there are Potocari, Srebrenica, Zvornik, Jakarina Kosa, The Mine Ljubija, Prijedor, Budak, and lots of them more. You can see small piece of it on this page. The numbers that are written are how many bodies were found like 215, 315.... etc http://www.ljubija.org/ekshumacija.htm . There were found 305 massive crypts with about 600 human bodies.
Many things Serbs did, written on the walls with blood of a 5 month baby Ammar, strengled, choked, buried alive, killing 2-moth babies with bottle in their mouth and ripping off human parts of bodies, some people were killed with harpon - weapon to kill whales, so you can imagine the horro they were coming trough. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/cryfromthegrave/
The two people that are guilty for these crimes are RADOVAN KARADZIC and RATKO MLADIC. Also the guilty ones are SLOBODAN MILOSEVIC and Serb army. But dont think that these 3 are only ones, there are a looooooooooooooooooooooot of Serb persons for covering up crimes, killing, executing innocent Bosnians, and like that.
If any of you has a comment or something to say about doubts , ask the thousands of Srebrenica's mothers that lost their sons, fathers, brothers, nephews, and other families.
Imagine yourself for having lost two brothers, two sons, father and uncle, being alone on the world, and hear someone saying the genocide doesnt exist?!?!?!?!?!
Dont be blind, the world must know what happened but only the truth. If you have anything to say, please say to me, Hannover, Claudia..., grenadier, Richard Perle and all of you others that dont believe in suffering and horrors of my people, my nation in war!!! And all that happened in "UN's FIRST SAFE ZONE", protected and se cured zone.
crazyplant[/b]

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9969
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Jul 10, 2005 10:54 pm)

Hi crazyplant & welcome.

I still do not see thousands upon thousands of exhumed bodies as the tale alleges. Actually, I see only a few, why? Your links don't help, in fact they hurt your position, they merely show a few bones and not enormous mass graves of thousands upon thousands as alleged. Also, the text which makes claims means nothing when searching for physical evidence. And that is the point. Like the 'holocau$t' mass graves claims, heretofore we've seen nothing to support the Srebenica story.

You said:
Maybe you didnt hear about it but in Bosnia and Herzegowina there were hundreds and hundreds of massive crypts, buried deep into the ground, burnt or spilled with acid and chemical poisons.

Really? Can you show us these sites, not just claim them?

I see you're emotional & believe very strongly; well, so do those on the Serbian side. Emotions are irrelevant.

Regards, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9969
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jul 11, 2005 2:41 am)

So here we have another spin job, note the lack of evidence for the claimed '8,000'. My comments [ _______ ].
- Hannover
Ten years later, Srebrenica victims to be buried By Maja Zuvela
Sun Jul 10, 2005
Reuters

Victims of the Srebrenica massacre dug out from nameless death pits were readied for Muslim burial on Monday at a ceremony to mark the 10th anniversary of Europe's worst atrocity in 50 years.

The 610 [where's the '8,000'? Or whatever the number is this week .. the 610 is in line with a military action, not a general 'masacre'] green-draped coffins were the latest remains to be identified by DNA analysis from scores of mass graves dug by Bosnian Serb forces to hide evidence of their slaughter of 8,000 Muslim men between July 11 and July 18, 1995. ['Scores of mass graves', but only 610 bodies after ten years of digging]

Up to 50,000 mourners were expected at the memorial.

Serbia's President Boris Tadic planned to attend, although some Muslims said they would not welcome him, while some Serb hard-liners said he should not go the memorial.

Over 1,500 Bosnian Serb police backed by European Union troops were to enforce security, heightened by the discovery near the site last week of two large bombs "ready to detonate."

The massacre, in the final two months of a 43-month war, aimed to ensure there were no Muslims to fight back or claim back Serb-occupied land or homes in the future.[I get it, 'a massacre' of 610 would do that. And who says, anyway? Can we hear from the Serbs please.]

Bosnian Serb army commander General Ratko Mladic and the rebel state's "president," Radovan Karadzic, were indicted for genocide for the atrocity. But to the anger of Bosnians and the embarrassment of Western powers who intervened belatedly to stop the war which claimed 200,000 lives, both remain at large.

PROPER BURIAL

Monday's funerals will raise the number of Srebrenica graves at the Potocari cemetery to about 2,000 [Note how they try to imply that all graves represent victims of this 'massacre']. But 7,000 body bags remain to be analyzed and 20 more mass graves to be exhumed.[After 10 years they still can't analyse the alleged body bags? Why not? Why should we believe the bags contain 7,000 actual bodies, apparently the forensics teams do not, or we would have seen the results. 20 more mass graves? Oh really? How do they know, they haven't even dug yet. Oops]

A newly opened pit, 18 by three meters (60 by 10 feet) in size, was due to be uncovered during the memorial. Experts expect it to contain at least 50 bodies. [Expecting 50 is not 8,000.]

Each opened grave gives hope to relatives trying to find the bodies of their loved ones.

"I go from grave to a grave, hoping finally to find his bones," said Pasa Djanic, 68, who has been looking for her son Esad for 10 years.

The thickly wooded hills of Bosnia are peaceful this summer.

But survivors who escaped Srebrenica recalled how as mortars, shelling and snipers rained death 10 years ago after heavily armed Serb troops brushed aside a light Dutch U.N. force to overrun the "safe area."

"This is just a dirt road. But for me it's the most beautiful highway in the world, the road of life that I covered with my friends who are gone now," said Muhamed Omerovic, who was 21 when thousands made a desperate dash for the hills.

But the evidence of massacre [What evidence, other than for a military action where people got killed?]has little impact on those Serbs who insist any killing was simply a hard fact of war, or a justifiable act of revenge, or who deny it outright.[Is that what they really say? Notice we never hear the Serb side of the story.]

Srebrenica today is a dismal, half-empty town in the "Republika Srpska," or Serb Republic half of Bosnia, which last year had to be coerced into acknowledging the massacre and taking responsibility for it.[Coerced? How about forced.]

Monday's memorial, however, has irked Serb nationalists, who have started staging rival memorials for their dead in the vicinity of Srebrenica.
[Hmm, some subtext here.]
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

crazyplant
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 9:07 am

Postby crazyplant » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jul 11, 2005 1:31 pm)

it is ok if u think so, it is your opinion, but just let me say, today 1937 bodies were buried. When I say, I mean 1937 bodies that were identified. And there are others still to be identified that are in country. Which proof do u need more? The bodies say for themselves, the DNA analyse says that they were cut troath. If u lived in Bosnia, you would know that informations.


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests