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TMoran
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Anti-denierism - Pants down, way down

Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:57 am)

Type in 'carbon monoxide diesel' into Google and you get on first listing -


Boat Safely: Carbon Monoxide Alert
After many years of declining, the number of cases of carbon monoxide ...
Diesel Boats The amount of CO produced by diesel is usually less than half that of ...
www.yachtsurvey.com/carbon_monoxide_alert.htm - 63k - Oct 3, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Friedrich Berg & the Diesel Issue
... a diesel gassing as blue in color - but acute carbon monoxide poisoning ...
Furthermore, the Germans had much better ways to produce carbon monoxide ...
www.nizkor.org/features/techniques-of-d ... el-01.html - 9k - Oct 4, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages

Diesel Car Emissions - The TruthDiesel engines produce virtually no carbon monoxide, a petrol engine ... The main
remedy to carbon monoxide emissions of petrol engines has been the ...
www.stealthtdi.com/Emissions.html - 12k - Cached - Similar pages

Forbes.com: Clearing the Air... hydrogen and carbon monoxide without burning off the diesel entirely.
That hydrogen and carbon monoxide mixture is then pumped into one of two NOx traps ...
www.forbes.com/forbes/2004/0621/170_print.html - Similar pages

Agricultural and Biosystems Engineering @ Iowa State Univeristy
Is carbon monoxide a problem with diesel engines? Usually not, although any
engine, including diesel, produces CO when combustion is incomplete. ...
www.abe.iastate.edu/human_house/aen206.asp - 20k - Cached - Similar pages

[PDF] Customer Focus
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - View as HTML
Diesel fuel produces significantly lower. levels of carbon monoxide emissions,
all other factors being equal. 1. Diesel does produce more "soot" ...
www.thehartford.com/insurance_info/pdfs/68co-lft.pdf - Similar pages

CARBON MONOXIDE - The Silent Killer Aboard Your Boat
Do you know the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning? Carbon monoxide poisoning
symptoms may be easily overlooked because of their similarity to other ...
www.boatwashington.org/carbon_monoxide.htm - 34k - Cached - Similar pages

Outdoor Carbon Monoxide Poisoning Attributed to Tractor Exhaust ...Carbon monoxide (CO) intoxication is a common cause of reported ... Tests conducted
on a diesel-powered tractor resulted in zero ppm CO for the 15-minute ...
www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00050544.htm - 24k - Cached - Similar pages


And, get a load of this one -

Carbon Monoxide Headquarters
Carbon Monoxide Poisoning ... Concentrations of 1000 - 5000 ppm CO in undiluted
diesel exhaust gases are common, and levels up to 60000 ppm or higher, ...
www.coheadquarters.com/coDiesel01.htm - 2k - Cached - Similar pages


Hmmm. "Carbon Monoxide Headquarters". With a title like that one might expect a comprehensive accounting of carbon monoxide in combustion engines exhausts.

And what do we get under this -
http://www.coheadquarters.com/coDiesel01.htm ??


Carbon Monoxide Poisoning
Diesel Exhaust Gases:

Factors tending to increase CO:

Abrupt change in power setting / load changes
Less than ideal injection timing, fuel aerosolization, distribution, and combustion chamber shape
Low combustion temperature
Low operating rpm
Large, heavy-duty size as compared to light-duty engines
Engine not properly maintained
Blocked air intake

Concentrations of 1,000 - 5,000 ppm CO in undiluted diesel exhaust gases are common, and levels up to 60,000 ppm or higher, are possible.


Other Sources on Diesel Exhaust Gases


And what do we get when we click that "Other Sources on Diesel Exhaust Gases" with the 'sources' plural?

By golly - http://www.nizkor.org/faqs/leuchter/leu ... aq-19.html

Yup, that's right - the childish anti-denier website - NIZKOR. NIZKOR and only NIZKOR.

Now who is responsible for "Carbon Monoxide Headquarters"?

Ah yes, desperation.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Oct 05, 2005 12:16 pm)

Tommy Moran has indeed caught NIZKOR redhanded, yet again.

Here is F.P. Berg's demolition of that desperately lying, tinfoil hat, judeo-supremacist organization.

Nizkor Lies about the Toxicity of Diesel Exhaust
Some comments to “The Toxicity of Fumes from a Diesel Engine under Four Different Running Conditions” [1]
by Friedrich Paul Berg

http://www.nazigassings.com/nizkorlies.html

Have a look at Berg's website and read article after article which blows apart the laughable 'gassings' canard.
http://www.nazigassings.com

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Oct 08, 2005 5:25 am)

The newest dodge of revisionists is that they claim the witnesses were wrong. Roberto Muehlenkamp (on RODOH forum) says it is normal that a witness can be mistaken in a detail of his story but still be credible.

He says the witnesses were wrong only in the detail of motor type - the truth is that the Germans used gasoline engines. And killed hundreds of thousands with gasoline negine exhaust.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Oct 08, 2005 9:00 am)

It is probably correct that witness testimonies are the weakest proofs for an alleged occurrence.

Unforunately this is all the Holocaust fetishists have: The Holocaust myth is based on narratives.

The material and documentary evidence is missing. Not a single body of the millions who were allegedly killed with poison gas was ever found. The whole thing is a hoax.

Concerning Scott's forum, my posts there seem to be disappearing. Maybe I should re-post them on this forum too. It is true that I am not very kind to certain fanatic German anti-Germans. These people are in my eyes scum. Why don't these people get themselves Israeli passports, instead of travelling with German passports?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Oct 08, 2005 10:06 am)

The diesel vs. gasoline situation is a great example of the 'holocau$t' Industry losing control of their lies. Ofcourse that IS a problem with lies; the liars can't keep their stories straight.

In discussing the alleged 'statements' of SS Gerstein; Leon Poliakov, who is a French speaking, Jewish 'historian', said:
"there is little to add to this description which holds good for Treblinka, Sobibor as well as for the Belzec camp. The latter installations were constructed in almost the same way and also used the exhaust carbon monoxide gases from diesel motors as death agents."

According to Poliakov, more than a million and a half people were killed with diesel exhaust.

For more on the alleged and absurd diesel gassings, and why the liars would attempt to switch to gasoline, read:
http://www.codoh.com/gcgv/gcdiesel.html

The 'holocau$t' Industry has lost sight of this basic fact:
Tell the truth, it's easier to remember

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Oct 09, 2005 6:22 am)

Claudia mustered:
The newest dodge of revisionists is that they claim the witnesses were wrong. Roberto Muehlenkamp (on trash forum) says it is normal that a witness can be mistaken in a detail of his story but still be credible.

He says the witnesses were wrong only in the detail of motor type - the truth is that the Germans used gasoline engines. And killed hundreds of thousands with gasoline negine exhaust.


That might work for one, or maybe even two instances but when it comes to Holocaust Diesel tales there are lots more than two. For Muehlenkamp, whoever he is, we have flippant to the utmost. When would this Muehlenkamp have an opposing view? If he was a defendent and the witnesses were against him.

Diesel being identified as the agent of mass extermination was intended, like intentionally, to put a monkey wrench into the emerging Holocaust lie.

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Postby Vallon » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:25 am)

TMoran wrote:That might work for one, or maybe even two instances but when it comes to Holocaust Diesel tales there are lots more than two.
Which ones?

I know that Gerstein mentioned diesel (see Roques).

Who else?

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:19 am)

As to my line:
That might work for one, or maybe even two instances but when it comes to Holocaust Diesel tales there are lots more than two.
Which ones?

Vallon writes:
I know that Gerstein mentioned diesel (see Roques).

Who else?



I don't have a full listing on hand right available. What's name who was taken out of South America and put on trial in Israel who said they used a captured Soviet submarine engine (Diesel) along with other less notable testimonies. Gerstein also said they used bottled CO and or Zyklon B at Belzec which no one tries to support.

Perceiving you may be a anti-denier I would direct you to type >diesel holocaust< into GOOGLE and notice the some 260,000 hits available on the subject, many of which, if not most are Holocaust promotional sites. That should tell you how central of a threat the Diesel tales are to the story.

I know there's a listing of the Diesel tales by denier sites but don't have it readily available on this computer. Do a thorough study of the story and you'll come across maybe 10 or 15 Diesel accounts.

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Postby Vallon » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Oct 09, 2005 10:36 am)

TMoran wrote:What's name who was taken out of South America and put on trial in Israel who said they used a captured Soviet submarine engine (Diesel) along with other less notable testimonies.
Yes, Eichman mentioned the U-boat engine (strange, so far away from any port), and I agree that this implies diesel. Although it is not clear that the engine had already arrived when Eichmann was there, you do have a point.

So that makes two witnesses to Diesel.

If I follow your advice and do some Googling, I find the following page with SS-witnesses about Sobibor. Erich Fuchs had installed the engine and fixed the ignition, so he knew what he was talking about. He said:
We unloaded the motor. It was a heavy Russian benzine engine, at least 200 horsepower. We installed the engine on a concrete foundation and set up the connection between the exhaust and the tube. I then tested the motor. It did not work. I was able to repair the ignition and the valves, and the motor finally started running.
http://www.auschwitz.dk/sobibor/SSofficers.htm

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sun Oct 09, 2005 4:59 pm)

Vallon seems to imply there may be only two accounts about Diesel as the agent for mass extermination.

http://www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/holocamp.html

Under the command of Franz Stangl, the killing process at Treblinka was very similar to that of Belzek and Sobibor. Upon their arrival by railway freight cars, the victims at Treblinka II were separated by sex and adults from children. They were told that they were being transported to other work camps but first they had to bathe and be disinfected. They were stripped of their clothing and other possessions, marched into buildings containing "bathhouses," and gassed with carbon monoxide poison produced by diesel engines and pumped in through ceiling pipes camouflaged as shower heads. The route from the selection area to the gas chambers passed through a narrow fenced-in passage known as "the tube." Many realized that they were going to their death and, when they resisted, were beaten, clubbed with rifle butts and whips by the camp staff. In September, 1942, several new and larger gas chambers were constructed.


That one would appear to come from Stangl. That would make it three accounted for here.

Could be Germar Rudolf has the list. I have one I compiled from nIZKOR files on my other computer which when I hook it up again I'll toss it out here. In fact I would say there is one in the archives already.

In the mean time here's a few headers from the 260,000 listed in GOOGLE.

THE CAMPS
Of the approximately 6 million Jews murdered in the Holocaust, more than half
... For the first few months, extermination was accomplished by using diesel ...
www.mtsu.edu/~baustin/holocamp.html - 36k - Cached - Similar pages


History of the Holocaust, Jewish Holocaust, the Nazi Holocaust ...
Deadly carbon monoxide fumes were then fed in from a stationary diesel engine located outside the chamber. history of the Holocaust ...www.unitedhumanrights.org/ Genocide/history_of_the_holocaust.htm - 46k - Cached - Similar pages


About The Holocaust
Yad Vashem The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority ... monoxide gas generated by large diesel engines that pumped gas into gas chambers. ...
www1.yadvashem.org/Odot/prog/ index_before_change_table.asp?gate=5-13 - 32k - Cached - Similar pages


The Danish Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies
The Danish Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies is an independent institution
... All of the camps used exhaust gas from diesel- or petrol engines. ...
www.holocaust-education.dk/holocaust/aktionreinhard.asp - 19k - Oct 8, 2005 - Cached - Similar pages



Holocaust Survivors: Encyclopedia - "Treblinka"Holocaust Survivors, an excellent educational resource about the Nazi Holocaust of ... A brick building contained 3 gas chambers fed by a diesel engine that ...
www.holocaustsurvivors.org/.../data.show.pl?di=record& da=encyclopedia&sf=entry_name&sv=Treblinka - 8k - Cached - Similar pages


Yup, Diesel tales galore and one big problem for the credibility of the Holocaust story.

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 10, 2005 2:13 pm)

Bergmann wrote:Concerning Scott's forum, my posts there seem to be disappearing. Maybe I should re-post them on this forum too. It is true that I am not very kind to certain fanatic German anti-Germans. These people are in my eyes scum. Why don't these people get themselves Israeli passports, instead of travelling with German passports?


I only see a couple of deletions by Roberto in the German Language Forum over the past month. It is impossible to say what they were. If in doubt copy your posts to the Memory Hole section for safekeeping or complain to other Moderators or me by PM or e-mail.

TMoran wrote:That one would appear to come from Stangl. That would make it three accounted for here.


If from Stangl then actually from Gitty Sereny who interviewed him. I'm not aware of any statement made by Stangl on the gaschambers.

TMoran wrote:Could be Germar Rudolf has the list. I have one I compiled from nIZKOR files on my other computer which when I hook it up again I'll toss it out here. In fact I would say there is one in the archives already.


The list is in the book by Kogon, Langbein, and Rückerl, Nazi Mass Murder : A Documentary History Of The Use Of Poison Gas (c. 1993). The English version is hard to find.

Basically the sources for diesel are as follows:

1. Gerstein statement.

2. Yankiel Wiernik (Soviet tank engine, probably diesel).

3. Eichmann (submarine engine, almost certainly diesel).

4. Eli Rozenberg said that "Ropa oil" was put into the fuel in the Eichmann and Demjanjuk trials in Israel, i.e., diesel fuel (or possibly 2-cycle engine oil).

5. Rudolf Reder, a Belzec escapee who said diesel in his book (although I don't have his court statement to verify).

6. Rudolf Höß said "carbon monoxide from engines" in the Reinhardt camps without specifying type (almost certainly not diesel).

7. Sgt. Erich Fuchs installed a gasoline engine from a truck at Sobibor, and gives enough detail that engine type is definitely gasoline, but the story lacks other important details. (He also installed the electrical generator system in Treblinka under the supervision of Sgt. Hackenholt, without specifying engine type.)

Most historians have simply repeated Gerstein, ad nauseam.

:D
Last edited by Scott on Mon Oct 10, 2005 10:56 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby Vallon » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:05 pm)

TMoran: Indeed, the Holocaust literature mentions diesel very often; probably they are just parrotting Gerstein. I think it is doubtful if Stangl is really cited in that quote that you gave.

Scott wrote:5. Rudolf Reder (Belzec escapee said diesel in his book although I don't have his court statement to verify).
According to Peter Witte, Reder said gasoline. I am translating Witte's German text:
Rudolf Reder, the then only known survivor of Belzec, carried according to his often repeated statement (since 1944, first published Kraków 1946) every day 4 to 5 kanistry benzyny (gasoline canisters) to the engine room. There was the "maszyna", motor pedzony benzyna (a motor running on gasoline).
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diskussion ... tungslager

The rest of Witte's article there is also interesting. The "gas masters" of Sobibor discussed in court what kind of engine it was, a Renault or a Russian tank. They did not quite agree on technical details of the ignition, but it was clearly a gasoline engine.

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:21 pm)

Taking a "gas can" instead of a "diesel can" to the engine is not very good evidence for engine type.

In the case of Fuchs he provides additional details like repairing the ignition so that we are certain he talks about a gasoline (i.e., spark-ignition) engine, and not an oil (i.e., compression-ignition) engine.

In addition, I'm told that Franz Suchomel also said a tank engine, although I'm not sure when this was.

:D

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Postby grenadier » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:34 pm)

Scott wrote:
Sgt. Erich Fuchs installed a gasoline engine from a truck at Sobibor, and gives enough detail that engine type is definitely gasoline, but the story lacks other important details.


Scott, in what ways is the story by sgt.Fuchs lacking in your opinion?

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Postby grenadier » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Oct 10, 2005 3:48 pm)

Vallon said:
According to Peter Witte, Reder said gasoline. I am translating Witte's German text:


Scott replied:
Taking a "gas can" instead of a "diesel can" to the engine is not very good evidence for engine type


That is true Scott. In the case of Reder a further problem is that
even mainstream expert Michael Tregenza has considered his report inconsistent.


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