Green, Mathis refuted / cyanide: lice, humans, & more

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Radar
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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:27 pm)

The other argument about taking the Zyklon out, and then, throwing it out, or putting it in water, there's no reason. The argument is nonsense.




Don't waste time running down any ridiculous false rabbit holes involving speculation over Zyklon being doused in water. IF this had happened it would have been told in eyewitness accounts. IF they doused the withdrawn Zyklon in a bucket of water they would have still had a lethal amount of diluted cyanide left. Remember we are talking several kilos of Zyklon in order to produce the quick-killing amount of gas claimed by exterminationists. Estimate this amount of cyanide water times the claimed gassing schedule at Auschwitz and you would have LARGE amounts of left over cyanide needing to be gotten rid of. If you put this down the drain fumes would probably result from drain pipes. But more relevant would be the large amounts of cyanide going to the camp's sewage treatment plant. Since Auschwitz lay in a swampy flat lands area that cyanide would have accumulated somewhere and have become a problem. If it flowed down the river it would have had recorded fish kills and poisonings.

It's silly to argue the crazy results of a false cover story that everyone knows never happened.

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Postby Germania » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:42 pm)

Hannover wrote:

then he says:
Yes,windstrength 13 bft hurricane in auschwitz.

show me the prove that the wind would have blow it acros the camp prior to placement in the so called "water".

Unless Auschwitz is in a vacuum, or subterranean enclosure there would be wind, especially since Auschwitz is flat marsh land. Cyanide gas would easily be blown throughout the labor camp.... if the bizarre 'dumped into water' story was true. :roll:


There were tons of zyklonb produced during world war 2. tell us what did happen to all those poison after delousing in camps, ships and living houses? did it magicaly disappear? wouldnt the wind blew all this poison through the camps and towns? obviously it didnt.

and:
Could use it for delousing

Tell me how Zyklon-B dumped in water could be used for delousing. Show me evidence that this was done.

- Hannover


"Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water."

http://www.mazal.org/Pressac/Pressac0065.htm

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Postby Germania » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 2:53 pm)

Radar wrote:
IF they doused the withdrawn Zyklon in a bucket of water they would have still had a lethal amount of diluted cyanide left.


yes could use if for delousing, see pressacs quote i provide.

But more relevant would be the large amounts of cyanide going to the camp's sewage treatment plant.


Please tell us what happened to cyanid they used to disinfect "Leather objects, such au shoes, belts."? Did it magically disappear?

The problem is that the entire issue is no problem at all. Imagine zyklonb was extensivly used to delouse clothes, barracks, houses, trains, ships. Now this all worked fine, but then we are supposed to believe they couldn't handle the gas to use it in homicidal chambers? They gassed living houses and clothes en masse, but if they used it in homicidal chambers they would have gassed the entire camp and poisoned the water system, yeah sure. This is ridiculous. May I laugh at you?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:00 pm)

Germania asks:
What happen to all the Zyklon-B used for delousing?

Simple, it was allowed to outgas, thereby eliminating the cyanide load. Hence the great length involved in using Zyklon-B. The procedure took hours.

Then he links us to an absurd source from the discredited Pressac which states:
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:

(Summary)

The procedures used were:

1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.;
2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms. Blankets were also included in this group
3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.

Pressac, a thoroughly debunked pharmacist, tells us about a Communist who talks about nonexistent "crystals". Yawn.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:09 pm)

There were tons of zyklonb produced during world war 2. tell us what did happen to all those poison after delousing in camps, ships and living houses? did it magicaly disappear? wouldnt the wind blew all this poison through the camps and towns? obviously it didnt.


I thought it was all absorbed by the fast-breathing victims. :roll:

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Postby Germania » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:15 pm)

Hannover wrote:Germania asks:
What happen to all the Zyklon-B used for delousing?

Simple, it was allowed to outgas, thereby eliminating the cyanide load.


where did it outgas? the poison doesnt disappear magically if you "allow to outgas". It doesnt disappear if it fills rooms and contiminate clothes, beds and other stuff. and remember the evil wind it would easily blow the gas throughout the camps and towns. yes, yes, zyklonb is a hoax. it was much too dangerous to be used. :roll:

Then he links us to an absurd source from the discredited Pressac which states:
These operations as carried out at the Zentral Sauna were described in a letter sent to the Auschwitz Museum by a Czech former prisoner:

(Summary)

The procedures used were:

1. Hot air: Large and heavy effects, such as coats, outer clothing, etc.;
2. Steam: “light” effects, such as underclothes, shirts and any type of clothing considered as light, for example the “Zebra-Kleider,” prison uniforms. Blankets were also included in this group
3. Other: Leather objects, such au shoes, belts. etc. were disinfected using Karbol. Lysol or water containing hydrocyanic acid, a mixture obtained by pouring Zyklon-B crystals into the water.

Pressac, a thoroughly debunked pharmacist, tells us about a Communist who talks about nonexistent "crystals". Yawn.

- Hannover


so what are your arguments?

pressac is allegedly "debunked"? so what its not pressac speaking.

the author is a communist? I challenge hannove to show that this "Czech former prisoner" is a communist. besides, some witnesses are communists, some are nazis, others are democrats, some have brown hair, other black. how is this an argument against the testimony???

hannover has provided no arguments whatsoever against the testimony...

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:21 pm)

This is an argument against known fact. If you read Rudolf you'll see that cyanide gas is fairly harmless in low concentrations. After a delousing gassing of 14 hours the rooms were vented up a tall chimney pipe many meters above the camp. The chimney holes, pipes, and smooth edges where they met the roof concrete were all recorded. No such record was made with the gas chambers or for any daily large amounts of doused Zyklon.

The water-doused Zyklon theory is particularly preposterous because only 10% of the cyanide would have gassed-out from the many kilo pellet load dropped into the mesh column and then withdrawn. Your example of delousing chambers is invalid simply because these had outgassed completely and were now in gaseous form. With the daily gassings being claimed LARGE amounts of cyanide would have resulted from any water dousings.

That photograph won't solve the morgue roof issue. If you were to go to Birkenau and look for those holes you wouldn't find them. Simply take the allied aerial photos and try to match locations for the holes. You won't find them. Instead you'll find 2 crudely hacked holes that aren't in the right place. Exterminationists tried to explain this by saying the blasting caused the roof to shift, therefore displacing the location of the holes. But that's simply absurd since the roof is still mostly intact and blasting couldn't possibly cause their relation to the slab itself to change.

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:27 pm)

Hi,

I think it was about five years ago, there was a leak of cyanide into a river in Europe that caused massive fish die offs for hundreds of miles downstream. The point being that putting cyanide in water does not neutralize it.

Also, talk about putting in water, burying it, using it to set up a poisoned cat box for the feral population around Auschwitz, etc. etc. etc. avoids the main point, which is, that there would be no reason to remove the pellets before complete out-gas.

I don't mean to make fun of anybody but at some point the whole thing just becomes ludicrous.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:31 pm)

In 60 degree fahrenheit weather, Zyklon B would sublimate quite quickly. But I've followed the weather in Poland all winter. The entire country hovers at around 33 degrees fahrenheit from October to around late February. That's nearly half the year. And notice how in World at War Episode 20. A show translated into practically every major language there is, and seen by millions, that their star witness actually mentions seeing his breath in the cold air, then mentions 5? minute gassing times or something like that!

They have the Nazis set up this ridiculously inefficient gassing procedure, but then can't resist the "efficient German" stereotype. Thus there's always the Nazi officer with stopwatch in hand! lol.

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Postby Germania » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:35 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:In 60 degree fahrenheit weather, Zyklon B would sublimate quite quickly. But I've followed the weather in Poland all winter. The entire country hovers at around 33 degrees fahrenheit from October to around late February.


human beings packed like sardines heated up the rooms enough to allow evaporate the gas.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:50 pm)

S.A.X.:


Suggest you read up on the mesh columns and Dr Green's statement in the Irving Trial.

The reason they needed to withdraw the Zyklon from the chamber was because exterminationists could not account for the slow outgassing rate of Zyklon compared to the 5-15 minute death rates claimed in eyewitness accounts. In order to meet their claims exterminationists were forced to acknowledge the scientific fact that several kilos of Zyklon would have been needed to produce those rates. If they let that amount of Zyklon outgas completely there would have been large amounts of residue. Also, it would have taken over an hour for that load to outgas (probably longer in a tin container) - making their 5-15 minute timing impossible. So they invented a story about withdrawing the Zyklon back up the mesh column. Also, they needed to explain why Leuchter found only tiny trace amounts in chambers alleged to have been actively killing on a daily schedule.

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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:55 pm)

Hi,

Radar, yes, I know "why" the pellets had to be removed in 10 minutes. But, in the sense of those people who supposedly were doing the gassings, it is paranoid to a high degree to think they would insist on removing the pellets in 10 minutes just so no one would find any trace of the gassings 40 years or more later.

"My Lord, we know for a certainty that the pellets were removed after 10 minutes."

"And how do we know that, Master van Pelt?"

"Because otherwise, our case would be a shambles!"

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:34 pm)

Hi Radar,

I'm really not sure how Secret Anne X has it wrong and needs to read up on this and that. I think she has it right.
In any case, Secret Anne X has it wrong. Most gas chamber accounts assume Zyklon gassed out like an execution gas chamber. This is obviously where these phenomenal 5-15 minute death rates come from. Death rates that would be hard to achieve with the Zyklon concentrated in a tin

How does she have it wrong when that's exactly what she's saying?
The reason they needed to withdraw the Zyklon from the chamber was because exterminationists could not account for the slow outgassing rate of Zyklon compared to the 5-15 minute death rates claimed in eyewitness accounts.


So they poured extra in. But why let it finish outgassing somewhere else besides inside the chamber?

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:25 pm)

Germania wrote,
human beings packed like sardines heated up the rooms enough to allow evaporate the gas

This has been discussed on many other threads. A cold day, a cold thick cement floor. Hilberg says people backed away from where the pellets were introduced. No air circulation as Hilberg mentions that people would try to go for the higher untainted layers of air. Keep in mind that heat rises. And yet you think that if a thermometer had been laying on the floor among the pellets that it would show a temperature rising from the heat of people's bodies?

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:48 pm)

I meant that mothball-type outgassing was wrong. The commonly accepted image was of war-type fogging gas quickly overwhelming the victims.


So they poured extra in. But why let it finish outgassing somewhere else besides inside the chamber?



Ah Carto, the industry realized they would have to claim several kilos were used because revisionists like Rudolf showed them the scientific impossibility of using less. The reason they needed to invent this story of removing the pellets after 5-15 minutes was because there was no Prussian Blue staining inside the morgue. Leuchter also failed to find any revealing levels of cyanide residue. This is why the industry needs to withdraw the Zyklon out of the chamber because they know if it was in there any longer they couldn't explain the lack of residue. They covered this story by saying the gassing was done after 15 minutes and they were only interested in removing the bodies. The real reason is because they needed to explain the lack of residue existing in the morgue.
Last edited by Radar on Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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