"Official" Majdanek's figure might be changed soon

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Vallon
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Postby Vallon » 1 decade 5 years ago (Sun Jan 08, 2006 4:18 pm)

ASMarques wrote:
Vallon wrote:Of course, the volume of the Majdanek gas chamber probably would have required a mechanical pump, but the opening could have been rather small.


Are you implying that a (presumably non-microscopic) rather small hole that does not exist is somehow more real than any other non-existing holes? I'm reasonably sure that if any suspect holes at all had been detectable in there, the news would by now have reached us.
Laurentz Dahl just told us that there is a pipe.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:31 am)

Vallon wrote:
ASMarques wrote:
Vallon wrote:Of course, the volume of the Majdanek gas chamber probably would have required a mechanical pump, but the opening could have been rather small.


Are you implying that a (presumably non-microscopic) rather small hole that does not exist is somehow more real than any other non-existing holes? I'm reasonably sure that if any suspect holes at all had been detectable in there, the news would by now have reached us.


Laurentz Dahl just told us that there is a pipe.


Sorry. I got the impression that you were talking about unmentioned holes that might exist, imagining them too small to become suspect in the gassing context, but actually working in such a role etc.

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Postby Mortimer McMuddle » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:25 pm)

Vallon wrote:Laurentz Dahl just told us that there is a pipe.


Graf and Mattogno explain that it was used for disinfesting/disinfecting with Cartox gas:

Graf & Mattogno:

[The joint Polish-Soviet Commission:]

"GAS CHAMBER NO. I. It has a door measuring 2 x 0.9 m in the south wall, as well as a hermetically closable ventilation opening (20 x 20 cm) in the ceiling. Within the gas chamber there is a galvanized gas pipe 1.5 inches in diameter, with openings 6 mm in diameter. The distance between these openings is 25 cm each along the entire length of the gas pipe. The pipe is installed at a height of 30 cm above floor level and runs along all four walls of the chamber, with the exception of the space taken up by the door. One end of the gas pipe is 'blind', while the other leads to the chamber where the gas bottles were stored / Equipment Room No. 14.

"The chamber door is of boiler plate iron 12 mm thick, with a rubber lining and locking levers that allow it to be hermetically sealed. The iron door contains a glass peephole 85 mm in diameter, surrounded with a screen.

"To allow observation of the events in Gas Chamber No. I, the wall of the same contains an observation s window 20 x 12 cm in size, through which one can see out of the gas bottle storage room / Equipment Room No. 14 / and into the gas chamber. It is glazed on the side of the Equipment Room. On the side of Gas Chamber No. I it is protected with a grid of iron rods 10 mm in diameter. The chamber is illuminated by two electric lights mounted in niches to either side of the entrance door and protected by a double iron grate. The connection for the switch is in the Equipment Room.

[...]

"GAS CHAMBER NO. III. It has two entrances, located on the longitudinal axis of the chamber on opposite walls. Both measure 2 x 0.9 m. In the wall on the heating side there are two round openings 25 cm in diameter, by which Gas Chamber No. III is connected to the heating system installed in the adjoining room. There are no openings in the opposite wall of Gas Chamber III or in the ceiling. Gas Chamber No. III is equipped with a gas pipe of galvanized iron, 1.5 inches in diameter. It spans the entire length of the room at a height of 30 cm above the concrete floor. Both ends of the pipe have openings through which the gas is discharged. These openings are protected with cast-ion gratings cemented into the wall. The pipe leads from the room where the gas bottles were stored / Equipment Room No. 14 / into the Gas Chamber.

"The construction of the doors and the means for sealing them hermetically are as for Gas Chamber No. I. One of the doors is fixed with an iron casing to hold a thermometer.

"The chamber is illuminated by an electric light mounted in a niche on the wall, protected by two iron grids. The switch leads to the gas bottle storage room."

[..]

J.-C. Pressac continues:

"One last renovation of the block resulted in the creation of gas chambers in which human beings were killed with carbon monoxide. There can be no doubt at all that this set-up served criminal purposes, for CO is fatal to warm-blooded creatures-and thus also to man-but utterly useless for combating lice."

[...]

In this case, the most effective kind of bottled gas [for disinfestation/disinfection] would have been T-gas, a mix of approximately 10 parts ethylene oxide and 1 part carbonic acid, bottled and delivered in steel cylinders. The steel cylinders could be filled by first using one bottle ethylene oxide and then two bottles CO2, as per the model illustrated by Lenz and Gassner.[438] Since there was, after all, at least one bottle of CO2 in the camp, this would also be a compelling explanation for the pipes installed in Chambers I and III-if there were not compelling chronological reasons why this cannot be the case.

[Emphasis added.]

http://vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/7.html#ftn388


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Postby Gertrud » 1 decade 5 years ago (Mon Jan 09, 2006 4:54 pm)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:PS. Polish-speaking posters on this forum, please check Polish language newspapers now and then for possible updates. Dziekuje!

This report seems to have gone unnoticed so far:
http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zei ... eton/0018/

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jan 11, 2006 3:08 pm)

I just saw this english text Majdanek Revisionist feast from the Auschwitz-Birkenau State 'Museum', Poland. It's jammed with nonsense which has been demolished by Revisionists.

- Hannover

http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl ... =EN&id=879

Paweł P. Reszka, Lublin, Gazeta Wyborcza / 2005/12/23

Majdanek Victims Enumerated

Changes in the history textbooks? Lublin scholar Tomasz Kranz has established that the Nazis murdered 78,000 people at the Majdanek concentration camp—several times fewer than previous estimates

Two figures of the number of Majdanek victims have usually been in use—360,000 or 235,000. Kranz, director of the Research Department of the State Museum at Majdanek, asserts that approximately 59,000 Jews and 19,000 people of other ethnic backgrounds, mostly Poles and Byelorussians, died there. Kranz published his estimate in the latest edition of the journal Zeszyty Majdanka.

The figure of 360,000 victims appears in the Encyclopedia of the Holocaust, the Britannica Polish edition, and the Polish Nowa Encyklopedia Powszechna PWN. In all three cases, the source is a 1948 publication by Zdzisław Łukaszkiewicz, a judge who was a member of the Main Commission for the Investigation of Nazi Crimes in Poland.

The second figure, of 235,000, comes from a 1992 article by Dr. Czesaw Rajca, now retired from the Majdanek museum staff. Rajca’s estimate appears in the Wikipedia internet encyclopedia and in the exhibit at the Majdanek Museum.

Rajca said that he “established that estimate on the basis of calculations by historians as published by the museum in the 1991 monograph on the camp. The people doing the research did not have access to all the sources, including some in Germany. Nor did I use all the records available in the museum archives, because they are fragmentary, and they will not be useful in analyzing the mortality figures at Majdanek until the data they contain is entered in the computers.”

Rajca emphasized that he had “not yet read Tomasz Kranz’s article, but, at first glance, his figures for the number of people killed in the camp seem incredibly low.”

Kranz claims to have examined all available sources, including the extant fragments of the camp death book, the death registry, the notifications of prisoner deaths that the Nazis sent to parishes in Lublin, testimony at their trial in Dusseldorf in the late 1970s and early 1980s by SS men garrisoned at Majdanek, and accounts by surviving prisoners.

Before it went to press, Kranz’s article was read by most of the Majdanek museum staff and discussed at a special meeting. No one raised any objections. “The findings are highly authoritative,” said Prof. Zygmunt Mańkowski, chairman of the Majdanek Museum board. “However, we do not know the definitive number of prisoners who passed through the camp or the number of those whose deaths the camp administration did not register. It cannot be ruled out that new documents will come to light that alter Kranz’s findings. This must be borne in mind, and his calculations accepted with a certain caution.”

Majdanek museum director Edward Balawejder recommended that guides inform the visitors to whom they show the camp about the new calculations as to the number of victims, but also tell them that research is still underway to determine how many prisoners passed through the camp.

“78,000 deaths over the course of three years is a crime on an enormous scale, and not only in comparison with other camps like Buchenwald, where about 56,000 people died over eight years,” said Kranz. “It must be remembered, however, that the number of victims only gives an idea about the scale of genocide; it does not convey the measureless pain and suffering experienced by the people imprisoned and murdered at Majdanek.”

Number of Auschwitz Victims Was also Revised

It was accepted for many years after the war that about 4 million prisoners died in Auschwitz Concentration Camp. That figure, which originated with the findings of the Soviet commission investigating Nazi crimes, was based on accounts by former prisoners, fragmentary records, and crime-scene investigation at the site. In 1983, the French investigator Georges Wellers, a former Auschwitz prisoner on the staff of the Center for Jewish Documentation in Paris, extended his research to include documents on the number of deportees to the camp and concluded that about 1.6 million people were sent to Auschwitz, where nearly 1.5 million of them died.

In 1992, Dr. Franciszek Piper, director of the Historical Research Department at the Auschwitz-Birkenau State Museum, published the book How Many People Perished in Auschwitz Concentration Camp, in which he stated that at least 1.3 million people were deported to the camp and that about 200,000 of them were transferred to camps in the depths of the Third Reich, with the remaining 1.1 million or more dying in Auschwitz.

Piper’s book stirred up enormous emotions. “I was accused, above all by some former prisoners, of making estimates not supported by the documents,” Piper recalls. “However, no historian doing research on the history of the Holocaust or Auschwitz questioned them.”

The Extermination Mechanism

The camp at Majdanek functioned from October 1941 to July 1944. Shooting was one of the main killing methods. The largest execution took place on November 3, 1943, when 18.000 Jews were shot. Music was played to drown out the sound of the shooting and the victims’ screams. Prisoners were also gassed. Three gas chambers were in operation. Other people were beaten to death with clubs or iron crowbars—SS men killed 200 people this way during a single execution. Prisoners also died en masse from starvation, exhaustion, and sickness (Source - Józef Marszałek, Majdanek. Obóz koncentracyjny w Lublinie [Majdanek Concentration Camp in Lublin], Warsaw: Interpress, 1987).
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:06 pm)

Gertrud wrote:
Laurentz Dahl wrote:PS. Polish-speaking posters on this forum, please check Polish language newspapers now and then for possible updates. Dziekuje!

This report seems to have gone unnoticed so far:
http://www.berlinonline.de/berliner-zei ... eton/0018/


Thanks for posting the link!

Wenig später fielen einem zynisch "Erntefest" genannten Massaker an nur einem Tag etwa 18 000 jüdische Häftlinge zum Opfer.


Named "Erntefest" by whom? Everything about this alleged massacre is made up from thin air, including the name Erntefest ("Harvest Festival") as shown by Mattogno and Graf:

http://vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/10.html

A bit curious that they mention the originally claimed 1,5 victim figure - I thought this was completely down the Orwellian Memory Hole. Hey, by mentioning it they may cause some people to think sinful, evil thoughts! :lol:

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:22 pm)

“However, we do not know the definitive number of prisoners who passed through the camp or the number of those whose deaths the camp administration did not register. It cannot be ruled out that new documents will come to light that alter Kranz’s findings. This must be borne in mind, and his calculations accepted with a certain caution.”


Yes, there may of course surface documents that show that the gassing and massacre stories of Majdanek are bollocks. Not that that would be necessary - the fraud is easy to look through as it is.

Majdanek museum director Edward Balawejder recommended that guides inform the visitors to whom they show the camp about the new calculations as to the number of victims, but also tell them that research is still underway to determine how many prisoners passed through the camp.


Of course the whole thing is religion and these guys are priests, so perhaps if deemed necessary a miracle will occur causing the death toll to rise again? "Ooops... actually 1,5 people died here, gassed in a shoe box, cremated with a zippo and flushed down the toilet without a trace..." :roll:

The camp at Majdanek functioned from October 1941 to July 1944. Shooting was one of the main killing methods. The largest execution took place on November 3, 1943, when 18.000 Jews were shot. Music was played to drown out the sound of the shooting and the victims’ screams. Prisoners were also gassed. Three gas chambers were in operation.


This is a translation of the article in Polish posted by Mr Jacek in the very beginning of this thread. The source the "journalists" (parrots, I would rather say...) used claims 3 homicidal gas chambers. However, as seen above, Kranz claim the existence of merely 2 (easily refutable) gas chambers.
Last edited by Laurentz Dahl on Wed Jan 11, 2006 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:34 pm)

“78,000 deaths over the course of three years is a crime on an enormous scale, ...”


The US Air force had that done in some seconds - twice!
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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:50 am)

As is usual with this kind of thing, the downward revision of the Majdanek victim toll hasn't reached the minds of the general populace - and certainly not this web site promoting tourism in Poland to Danes:

http://www.polska.dk/lublin_index.htm

This page is in Danish, but you can read the victim figure written in numbers close to the end of this page:

Majdanek koncentrationslejren ligger i byens sydlige del , under 2den verdenskrig omkom ca 4000.000 mennesker i lejren. Nogle af barakkerne er bevarede og kan besøges.


("Majdanek concentration camp is located in the southern part of the city. During WWII, approximately 4000.000 people died in the camp. Some of the baracks have been preserved and can be visited.")

:lol:

Just imagine the disappointment of the Danes who come to Lublin, believing they are to visit the place where 4 million martyrs died, and then are told that the official victim toll is now 78.000! :twisted:

Even if it is a misprint for 400.000 it's still pretty funny, since the official figure was revised downwards in the early 90's from 360.000 to 231.000

Holohaux tourism (read: pilgrimage) is obviously big business in Poland!

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:22 am)

I just discovered that Jurgen Graf has a website and that a longer article on the lowering of the Majdanek death toll, written in July this year (2007) has been posted on it:

http://www.juergen-graf.sled.name/artic ... danek.html

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 14, 2007 2:32 am)

Now here's a question...

One of the big things exterminationists like to wag around is the comparisons of the pre- and post-war population statistics to show how many Jews are missing. Wouldn't they, then, have been able to take such figures to know in advance that the alleged millions of deaths at camps such as Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau were too high? Likewise, wouldn't they have been able to tell if the claimed tolls were too low?

Unless, of course, there is something wrong with the compiled population statistics... Hundreds of thousands vanishing into thin air is bad enough, but we're talking about at least 2 million between the 2 camps.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Nov 14, 2007 5:27 pm)

PotPie wrote:Now here's a question...

One of the big things exterminationists like to wag around is the comparisons of the pre- and post-war population statistics to show how many Jews are missing. Wouldn't they, then, have been able to take such figures to know in advance that the alleged millions of deaths at camps such as Majdanek and Auschwitz-Birkenau were too high? Likewise, wouldn't they have been able to tell if the claimed tolls were too low?

Unless, of course, there is something wrong with the compiled population statistics... Hundreds of thousands vanishing into thin air is bad enough, but we're talking about at least 2 million between the 2 camps.

An excellent point which demonstrates that the most basic logic utterly destroys the 'holocaust' storyline.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Nov 18, 2007 9:19 pm)

I just checked the official Majdanek web site and found that the victim figure has indeed been changed to "80,000"

Among an estimated 150,000 prisoners who entered Majdanek, 80,000 people, including 60,000 Jews, were killed according to the most recent research.


http://www.majdanek.pl/articles.php?acid=45&mref=1

There is no mention of the former held figures of 232,000, 360,000, 1,500,000 or 1,700,000 victims. I wonder why...

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Postby Paul der Cherusker » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Nov 19, 2007 2:39 am)

Does this make Mr. Kranz a "holocaust denier"? :lol:

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:15 am)

Paul der Cherusker wrote:Does this make Mr. Kranz a "holocaust denier"? :lol:


No, but perhaps he aspire to be the Pressac of Poland. The fact that he has read Graf & Mattognos book and admitted this is print, as well as not condemning it as evil lies in the usual manner of the believers point to this. Cutting the official figure by twho thirds, as well as condemning all but three of the original seven "gas chambers" to the dustbin, without attack from orthodoxy is quite feat - something which on the other hand may indicate that the revisions were done with the approval of the grey eminences of Holocaustianity.

If Kranz is trying to apply the salami tactic to the Majdanek myths I suggest that he cut either really thin slices or momentarily pass the ball to someone else - else he wind up like Pressac (hopefully without any illness of course!)

Edit: It seems the direct link I provided above does not work. After you click the link and the page in Polish open in your browser, click the button with "EN" in white text on red to the upper right and chose "The history of the camp" in the menu which appears at the top.


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