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Bergen-Belsen

Postby J William » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:48 am)

Below is an interesting article on the liberation of Bergen-Belsen.

Arts & Culture
The Second Tragedy at Bergen-Belsen
NONFICTION
By Josie Glausiusz
January 13, 2006



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After Daybreak: The Liberation of Bergen-Belsen, 1945
By Ben Shephard
Schocken Books, 288 pages, $25.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the middle of the night, when my father cannot sleep, he will pick up the phone in London and call me in New York, where he knows it is still evening, to talk about a topic that torments him. My father is a survivor of the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp; on April 15, 1945, when it was liberated by the British army, he was 10 years old. My father was not in the camp when the British arrived. Five days earlier, he and his mother and three surviving brothers had been placed on a train traveling toward Czechoslovakia, and soldiers of the Red Army freed him after the Germans abandoned the train in a forest between the German towns of Schilda and Tröbitz. Nevertheless, my father is haunted by a question: Why did 14,000 survivors of Bergen-Belsen die in the weeks after the camp came under British control? To him, the answer is clear: "Gross, deliberate neglect."

According to conversations my father has had with veteran soldiers of the Bergen-Belsen liberation, the Germans and the British had struck a deal to bar the survivors of the camp from leaving. Typhus was rampant in Bergen-Belsen, and it was feared that the disease — which had killed 3 million people in the Soviet Union at the end of the First World War — would spread to the surrounding population. Indeed, the British commandant who took control of the camp was under orders to "prevent the spread of disease and to prevent criminals breaking out." But was typhus the only reason for the inadequacy of the British response? Was antisemitism a factor? Did the British see Jews as expendable? Or was the British army simply ill equipped to cope with starvation, disease and squalor so grotesque that they had never before encountered it on such a scale? In his new book, "After Daybreak: The Liberation of Bergen-Belsen, 1945," Ben Shephard uses military records, diaries and the survivors' accounts to answer these questions. He does so with sensitivity and careful attention to the facts.

When British soldiers entered Bergen-Belsen, they were greeted by a horrible sight. Inside the camp were 60,000 desperate prisoners — more than half of them Jews deported from Poland, Greece, Holland and Hungary, the rest Polish and Russian prisoners of war, French Resistance fighters, and a motley crew of German thieves and prostitutes. Most of them were starving, and many were dying of typhus and tuberculosis. Allied bombing had disrupted the water supply in March 1945, and the food supply had failed completely. Many of the emaciated inmates were too weak to leave their bunks; "the compounds," Brigadier Glyn Hughes wrote, "were absolutely one mass of human excreta." Another British officer described the scene as "a barren wilderness," with piles of corpses "naked and obscene" lying everywhere. The place quickly became known as the Horror Camp.

Looking back, one doctor wrote in 1947 that "perhaps never in the history of medicine has a more gallant action been fought against disease." In reality, it took the British army almost two weeks to organize a proper medical response. The medical teams that did arrive in the camp were equipped with only aspirin and opium. James Johnston, the British lieutenant colonel who was appointed senior medical officer at Bergen-Belsen, estimated that a dozen 1,200-bed hospitals would be needed to treat the occupants of the camp. Instead, the British army had only eight nurses and about 300 medics, but no doctors, beds, clothes, dressings, surgical tools or anesthetics. They also had no idea how to feed the survivors, many of whom were too starved to digest the army rations that the soldiers offered on the day after their arrival: tins of ham, sausages, steak-and-kidney pudding, as well as butter and cheese. Two thousand survivors died — of vomiting and diarrhea — after eating this food.

The death rate continued to soar — reaching a high of 1,700 people one day in April — due to a week's inexplicable delay in moving survivors into nearby Wehr-macht barracks, which were equipped with a modern military hospital and kitchens. Slowly, however, conditions began to improve. A de-lousing program began, using dust guns to powder the detainees with DDT (dichloro, diphenyl trichloroethane) in an attempt to stop the typhus epidemic. (The fear that the disease would run rampant in the neighboring towns seems unfounded, because typhus is transmitted by lice in overcrowded conditions when carriers cannot change their clothes or wash.) Two Quaker volunteers organized a team of Hungarian laborers to clean the water tanks, and 96 medical students arrived from London to help treat the victims — aided in their efforts by doctors drawn from among the inmates.

Was there a policy of deliberate neglect? According to Shephard, the British were indeed unprepared to deal with the catastrophe they encountered at Bergen-Belsen, despite the fact that their intelligence services had been monitoring the camp for years. He argues, however, that it was mismanagement and ignorance that accounted for the mistakes and delays in treating the camp victims, rather than overt antisemitism. Not that the sentiment did not exist: Indeed, once the survivors had regained their vitality, their liberators accused them of being whiney and ungrateful. One observer wrote: "They are extremely fussy about the clothes with which they are issued. They grumble about their food.... They will not take no for an answer.... They criticize the fact that the British military commander drove round Camp 1 on the first day of the liberation, in the same car as the German commander, 'for all the world as though we were an exhibition.'"

Ultimately, however, it is the Jewish survivors' resilience and their ability to maintain their humanity that resonate most powerfully in "After Daybreak." They formed a central committee to represent them to the British, organized a Zionist youth group that began preparing for immigration to Palestine, set up a theater company and gave performances, and, in July 1945, published a Yiddish newspaper, Unzer Sztyme (Our Voice). Perhaps no one captured the survivors' strength more hauntingly than Rabbi Leslie Hardman, a British army chaplain who arrived in Bergen-Belsen on April 16, 1945. Talking with a group of Jewish girls from Poland and Lithuania, he described how, wracked with anguish, he tried to "kindle some warmth in their frozen hearts." One of the girls broke into a few lines of a Hebrew song. "The pathos of this attempt was so poignant," Hardman wrote, "that I put my head on the table and wept; and then they comforted me."


Josie Glausiusz is an editor at Discover Magazine and the author of "Buzz: The Intimate Bond Between Humans and Insects" (Chronicle, 2004).


Copyright 2006 © The Forward

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 12:25 pm)

The above should be compared to this:
The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n4p18_Okeefe.html

by Theodore J. O'Keefe

Nothing has been more effective in establishing the authenticity of the Holocaust story in the minds of Americans than the terrible scenes US troops discovered when they entered German concentration camps at the close of World War II.

At Dachau, Buchenwald, Dora, Mauthausen, and other work and detention camps, horrified US infantrymen encountered heaps of dead and dying inmates, emaciated and diseased. Survivors told them hair-raising stories of torture and slaughter, and backed up their claims by showing the GIs crematory ovens, alleged execution gas chambers, supposed implements of torture, and even shrunken heads and lampshades, gloves, and handbags purportedly made from skin flayed from dead inmates.

US government authorities, mindful that many Americans who remembered the atrocity stories fed them during World War I still doubted the Allied propaganda directed against the Hitler regime, resolved to "document" what the GIs had found in the
camps. Prominent newsmen and politicians were flown in to see the harrowing evidence, while the US Army Signal Corps filmed and photographed the scenes for posterity. Famous journalist Edward R. Murrow reported, in tones of horror, but no longer of disbelief, what he had been told and shown, and Dachau and Buchenwald were branded on the hearts and minds of the American populace as names of infamy unmatched in the sad and bloody history of this planet.

For Americans, what was "discovered" at the camps -- the dead and the diseased, the terrible stories of the inmates, all the props of torture and terror -- became the basis not simply of a transitory propaganda campaign but of the conviction that, yes, it was true: the Germans did exterminate six million Jews, most of them in lethal gas chambers.

What the GIs found was used, by way of films that were mandatory viewing for the vanquished populace of Germany, to "re-educate" the German people by destroying their national pride and their will to a united, independent national state, imposing in their place overwhelming feelings of collective guilt and political impotence. And when the testimony, and the verdict, of the Nuremberg Tribunal incorporated most, if not all, of the horror stories Americans were told about Dachau, Buchenwald, and other places captured by the US Army, the Holocaust could pass for one of the most documented, one of the most authenticated, one of the most proven historical episodes in the human record.

A Different Reality

But it is known today that, very soon after the liberation of the camps, American authorities were aware that the real story of the camps was quite different from the one in which they were coaching military public information officers, government spokesmen, politicians, journalists, and other mouthpieces.

When American and British forces overran western and central Germany in the spring of 1945, they were followed by troops charged with discovering and securing any evidence of German war crimes.

Among them was Dr. Charles Larson, one of America's leading forensic pathologists, who was assigned to the US Army's Judge Advocate General's Department. As part of a US War Crimes Investigation Team, Dr. Larson performed autopsies at Dachau and some twenty other German camps, examining on some days more than 100 corpses. After his grim work at Dachau, he was questioned for three days by US Army prosecutors.

Dr. Larson's findings? In an 1980 newspaper interview he said: "What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated.Part of that is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."

Typhus, Not Poison Gas

If not by gassing, how did the unfortunate victims at Dachau, Buchenwald and Bergen-Belsen perish? Were they tortured to death or deliberately starved? The answers to these questions are known as well.

As Dr. Larson and other Allied medical men discovered, the chief cause of death at Dachau, Belsen and the other camps was disease, above all typhus, an old and terrible scourge of mankind that until recently flourished in places where populations were crowded together in circumstances where public health measures were unknown or had broken down. Such was the case in the overcrowded internment camps in Germany at war's end, where, despite such measures as systematic delousing, quarantine of the sick and cremation of the dead, the virtual collapse of Germany's food, transport, and public health systems led to catastrophe.

Perhaps the most authoritative statement of the facts as to typhus and mortality in the camps has been made by Dr. John E. Gordon, M.D., Ph.D., a professor of preventive medicine and epidemiology at the Harvard University School of Public Health, who was with US forces in Germany in 1945. Dr. Gordon reported in 1948 that "The outbreaks in concentration camps and prisons made up the great bulk of typhus infection encountered in Germany." Dr. Gordon summarized the causes for the outbreaks as follows:

Germany in the spring months of April and May [1945] was an astounding sight, a mixture of humanity travelling this way and that, homeless, often hungry and carrying typhus with them ...Germany was in chaos. The destruction of whole cities and the path left by advancing armies produced a disruption of living conditions contributing to the spread of the disease. Sanitation was low grade, public utilities were seriously disrupted, food supply and food distribution was poor, housing was inadequate and order and discipline were everywhere lacking. Still more important, a shifting of populations was occurring such as few countries and few times have experienced.

Dr. Gordon's findings are corroborated by Dr. Russell Barton, today a psychiatrist of international repute, who entered Bergen-Belsen with British forces as a young medical student in 1945. Barton, who volunteered to care for the diseased survivors, testified under sworn oath in a Toronto courtroom in 1985 that "Thousands of prisoners who died at the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp during World War II weren't deliberately starved to death but died from a rash of diseases."

Dr. Barton further testified that on entering the camp he had credited stories of deliberate starvation but decided such stories were untrue after inspecting the well equipped kitchens and the meticulously maintained ledgers, dating back to 1942, of food cooked and dispensed each day.

Despite noisily publicized claims and widespread popular notions to the contrary, no researcher has been able to document a German policy of extermination through starvation in the German camps.

No 'Human Skin' Lampshades

What of the ghoulish stories of concentration camp inmates skinned for their tattoos, flayed to make lampshades and handbags, or other artifacts? What of the innumerable "torture racks," "meathooks," whipping posts, gallows, and other tools of torment and death that are reported to have abounded at every German camp? These allegations, and even more grotesque ones proffered by Soviet prosecutors, found their way into the record at Nuremberg.

The lampshade and tattooed-skin charges were made against Ilse Koch, dubbed by journalists the "Bitch of Buchenwald," who was reported to have furnished her house with objects manufactured from the tanned hides of luckless inmates.

But General Lucius Clay, military governor of the US zone of occupied Germany, who reviewed her case in 1948, told his superiors in Washington: "There is no convincing evidence that she [Ilse Koch] selected inmates for extermination in order to secure tattooed skins or that she possessed any articles made of human skin." In an interview General Clay gave years later, he stated about the material for the infamous lampshades: "Well, it turned out actually that it was goat flesh. But at the trial it was still human flesh. It was almost impossible for her to have gotten a fair trial." Ilse Koch hanged herself in a German jail in 1967.

It would be tedious to itemize and refute the thousands of bizarre claims as to Nazi atrocities. That there were instances of German cruelty, however, is clear from the testimony of Dr. Konrad Morgen, a legal investigator attached to the Reich Criminal Police, whose statements on the witness stand at Nuremberg have never been challenged by proponents of the Jewish Holocaust story. Dr. Morgen informed the court that he had been given full authority by Heinrich Himmler, commander of Hitler's SS and the dread Gestapo, to enter any German concentration camp and investigate instances of cruelty and
corruption on the part of camp personnel.
As he explained in sworn testimony at Nuremberg, Dr. Morgen investigated 800 such cases, resulting in more than 200 convictions. Punishments included the death penalty for the worst offenders, including Hermann Florstedt, commandant of Lublin (Majdanek), and Karl Koch (Ilse's husband), commandant of Buchenwald.

While German camp commandants in certain cases did inflict physical punishment, such acts had to be approved by authorities in Berlin, and it was required that a camp physician first certify the good health of the prisoner to be disciplined, and then be on hand at the actual beating. After all, throughout most of the war the camps were important centers of industrial activity. The good health and morale of the prisoners was critical to the German war effort, as is evidenced in a January 1943 order issued
by SS General Richard Glücks, chief of the office that supervised the concentration camps. It held the camp commanders "personally responsible for exhausting every possibility to preserve the physical strength of the detainees."

Camp Survivors: Merely Victims?

US Army investigators, working at Buchenwald and other camps, quickly ascertained what was common knowledge among veteran inmates: that the worst offenders, the cruelest denizens of the camps, were not the guards but the prisoners themselves. Common criminals of the same stripe as those who populate US prisons today committed many villainies, particularly when they held positions of authority, and fanatical Communists, highly organized to combat their many political enemies among the
inmates, eliminated their foes with Stalinist ruthlessness.

Two US Army investigators at Buchenwald, Egon W. Fleck and Edward A. Tenenbaum, carefully investigated circumstances in the camp before its liberation. In a detailed report submitted to their superiors, they revealed, in the words of Alfred Toombs, their commander, who wrote a preface to the report, "how the prisoners themselves organized a deadly terror within the Nazi terror."

Fleck and Tenenbaum described the power exercised by criminals and Communists as follows:

The trusties, who in time became almost exclusively Communist Germans, had the power of life and death over all other inmates. They could sentence a man or a group to almost certain death ... The Communist trusties were directly responsible for a large part of the brutalities at Buchenwald.

Colonel Donald B. Robinson, chief historian of the American military government in Germany, summarized the Fleck-Tenenbaum report in an article published in an American magazine shortly after the war. Colonel Robinson wrote succinctly of the American investigators' findings: "It appeared that the prisoners who agreed with the Communists ate; those who didn't starved to death."

Additional corroboration of inmate brutality has been provided by Ellis E. Spackman, who, as Chief of Counter-Intelligence Arrests and Detentions for the US Seventh Army, was involved in the liberation of Dachau. Spackman, later a professor of history at San Bernardino Valley College in California, wrote in 1966 that at Dachau "the prisoners were the actual instruments that inflicted the barbarities on their fellow prisoners."

'Gas Chambers'

In December 1944 US Army officers Colonel Paul Kirk and Lt. Colonel Edward J. Gully inspected the German concentration camp at Struthof-Natzweiler in Alsace. They submitted their findings to their superiors at the headquarters of the US 6th Army Group, which subsequently forwarded their report to the US War Crimes Division. While, significantly, the full text of their report has never been published, it has been revealed, by a historian supportive of Holocaust claims, that the two investigators were careful to characterize equipment exhibited to them by French informants as a "so-called lethal gas chamber," and to claim it was "allegedly used as a lethal gas chamber." (Emphasis added)

Both the careful phraseology of the Natzweiler report, and its effective suppression, stand in stark contrast to the credulity, the confusion, and the blaring publicity that accompanied official reports of alleged gas chambers at Dachau. At first, a US Army photo depicting a GI gazing at a steel door marked with a skull and crossbones and the German words for: "Caution! Gas! Mortal danger! Don't open!," was identified as showing the murder weapon.

Later, however, it was evidently decided that the apparatus in question was merely a standard delousing chamber for clothing, and another alleged gas chamber, this one cunningly disguised as a shower room, was exhibited to American congressmen and journalists as the site where thousands breathed their last. While there exist numerous reports in the press as to the operation of this second "gas chamber," no official report by trained Army investigators has yet surfaced to reconcile such problems as the
function of the shower heads: Were they "dummies," or did lethal cyanide gas stream through them? (Each theory has appreciable support in journalistic and historiographical literature.)

As with Dachau, so with Buchenwald, Bergen-Belsen, and the other camps liberated by the Allies in western Germany. There was no end of propaganda about "gas chambers," "gas ovens," and the like, but so far not a single detailed description of the murder weapon and its function, not a single report of the kind that is mandatory for the successful prosecution of any assault or murder case in America at that time and today, has come to light.

Furthermore, a number of Holocaust authorities have now publicly decreed that there were no gassings, no extermination camps in Germany after all. (We are now told that "gassing" and "extermination" camps were located exclusively in what is now Poland, in areas captured by the Soviet Red Army and made off-limits to western investigators.)

Dr. Martin Broszat of the Munich-based Institute for Contemporary History, which is funded by the German government, stated categorically in a 1960 letter to the German weekly Die Zeit: "Neither in Dachau nor in Bergen-Belsen nor in Buchenwald were Jews or other prisoners gassed." Professional "Nazi hunter" Simon Wiesenthal stated in 1975 and again in 1993 that "there were no extermination camps on German soil."

Dachau "gas chamber" No. 2, which was once presented to a stunned and grieving world as a weapon that claimed hundreds of thousands of lives, is now described in the brochure issued to tourists at the modern Dachau "memorial site" in these words: "This gas chamber, camouflaged as a shower room, was not used."

The Propaganda Intensifies

More than 50 years after American troops entered Dachau, Buchenwald and other German camps, and trained American investigators established the facts as to what had gone on in them, the government in Washington, the entertainment media in Hollywood, and the print media in New York continue to churn out millions of words and images annually on the horrors of the camps and the infamy of the Holocaust. Despite the fact that, with the exception of the defeated Confederacy, no enemy of America has ever so suffered so complete and devastating defeat as did Germany in 1945, the mass media and the politicians
and bureaucrats behave as if Hitler, his troops, and his concentration camps continue to exist in an eternal present, and our opinion makers continue to distort, through ignorance or malice, the facts about the camps.

Time for the Truth

It is time that the government and the professional historians reveal the facts about Dachau, Buchenwald and the other camps. It is time they let the American public know how the inmates died, and how they didn't die. It is time that the claims of mass murder by gassing are clarified and investigated in the same manner as any other claims of murder. It is time that the free ride certain groups have enjoyed as the result of unchallenged Holocaust claims be terminated, just as it is time to end the scapegoating of other groups, including Germans, eastern Europeans, the Roman Catholic hierarchy, and the wartime
leadership of America and Britain, either for their alleged role in the Holocaust or their supposed failure to stop it.

Above all, it is time that the citizens of this great Republic have the facts about the camps, facts they have a right to know, a right that is fundamental to the exercise of their authority and their will in the governance of their country. As citizens and as taxpayers, Americans of all ethnic backgrounds, of all faiths, have a basic right and an overriding interest in determining the facts of incidents that are deemed by those in positions of power to be significant in determining America's foreign and educational policy, as well as its selection of past events to be memorialized in our civic life.

Today the alleged facts of the Holocaust are at issue all over the civilized world. The truth will be decided only by recourse to the facts, in the public forum: not by concealing the facts, denying the truth, stonewalling reality. The truth will out, and it is time the government of this country, and governments and international bodies throughout the world, make public the evidence of what actually transpired in the German concentration camps in the years 1933-1945, so that we may put paid to the lies,
without fear or favor, and carry out the work of reconciliation and renewal that is and must be the granite foundation of mutual tolerance between peoples and of a peace based on justice.

Summary
The conclusions of the early US Army investigations as to the truth about the wartime German concentration camps have since been corroborated by all subsequent investigators and can be summarized:

1.The harrowing scenes of dead and dying inmates were not the result of a German policy of "extermination," but rather the result of epidemics of typhus and other disease brought about largely by the effects of Allied aerial attacks.
2.Stories of Nazi supercriminals and sadists who turned Jews and others into handbags and lampshades for their private profit or amusement were sick lies or diseased fantasies; indeed, the German authorities punished corruption and cruelty on the part of camp commanders and guards.
3.On the other hand, portrayals of the newly liberated inmates as saints and martyrs of Hitlerism were quite often very far from the truth; indeed, most of the brutalities inflicted on camp detainees were the work of their fellow prisoners, in contravention of German policy and German orders.
4.The alleged homicidal showers and gas chambers were used either for bathing camp inmates or delousing their clothes; the claim that they were used to murder Jews or other human beings is a contemptible fabrication. Orthodox historians and professional "Nazi-hunters" have quietly dropped claims that inmates were gassed at Dachau, Buchenwald and other camps in Germany. They continue, however, to keep silent regarding the lies about Dachau and Buchenwald, as well as to evade an open discussion of the evidence for homicidal gassing at Auschwitz and the other camps captured by the Soviets.

About the Author

Theodore J. O'Keefe, educated at Harvard University, is the author of numerous published articles, essays and reviews on historical and political subjects. For some years he served as editor of The Journal of Historical Review, which is published by the Institute for Historical Review.
A lengthier version of this essay, with complete reference notes and source citations, was published in The Journal of Historical Review, July-August 1995 (Vol. 15, no. 4), pp. 18-23.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Vallon » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:32 pm)

Hannover wrote:The above should be compared to this:
The Liberation of the Camps: Facts vs. Lies
http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v15/v15n4p18_Okeefe.html

by Theodore J. O'Keefe

...

Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."

- H.
Never a case? It seems to contradict a different quote from that biography:
The majority died of natural diseases of one kind or the another. However, we did probe into such questions as, 'What happened to those prisoners who became psychotic at Dachau? What did the Gestapo do with them?' Well, they took those people to the crematorium. First, however, they were taken to a big windowless building next to the crematorium where the ceiling was covered with false shower heads. The victims were then ordered to strip and take a 'shower.' Outside the building, guards dropped in cyanide pellets. Then they'd blow the cyanide gas out and remove the bodies next door to the crematorium ovens. I think this is what happened to most of the truly psychotic prisoners and those they considered unruly and unmanageable and who, in the Gestapo's opinion, were incorrigibles. But, in my opinion, only relatively few of the inmates I personally examined at Dachau were murdered in this manner. Still, medical facilities were totally inadequate. When people fell hopelessly ill and death was imminent, and when they grew so weak they could no longer work or function, they were taken to the cyanide room for disposal. The Nazi called them 'mercy killings' because there was no hope of them getting well. Actually, the Germans considered them a liability, and extermination was the answer.
('Crime Doctor,' McCallum & Larson, p. 61. ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number: 78-16403)
http://www.vex.net/~nizkor/hweb/camps/d ... er-02.html

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:48 pm)

Seems pretty fair and balanced. Although I took issue with this:
He argues, however, that it was mismanagement and ignorance that accounted for the mistakes and delays in treating the camp victims, rather than overt antisemitism. Not that the sentiment did not exist: Indeed, once the survivors had regained their vitality, their liberators accused them of being whiney and ungrateful. One observer wrote: "They are extremely fussy about the clothes with which they are issued. They grumble about their food.... They will not take no for an answer.... They criticize the fact that the British military commander drove round Camp 1 on the first day of the liberation, in the same car as the German commander, 'for all the world as though we were an exhibition.'"


Perhaps the prisoners were whiney and ungrateful. Pointing out that fact has nothing to do with anti-semitism. I can't understand the thinking behind paragraphs such as that one.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 1:52 pm)

Vallon, do you believe that gas chambers, officially "never used" I believe at this time, were used at Dachau? There have been plenty of threads about Dachau.

I was aware that there are two conflicting statements from Dr Larson out there. I don't know why, but I do know that there was never any proof for gassings at Dachau (nor for anywhere else) and the sign in the building appears to reflect this.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:13 pm)

Vallon posts a quote from:

''Crime Doctor,' McCallum & Larson, p. 61. ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number: 78-16403

I note that he leaves off the publication date of 1979. Interesting, since we have later info. which debunks Vallon's quote.

In an 1980 newspaper interview Larson said:
"What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."

- Wichita Eagle, April 1, 1980, p. 4C.

and:
"THE GAS CHAMBER disguised as a 'shower room' was never used as a gas chamber."

- Andrew Mollo, "Dachau," After the Battle (London: Battle of Britain Prints Ltd., 1980), Number 27, pp. 1-29.

plus:
"... In 1942 a gas chamber was also built in the Dachau concentration camp, but inexplicably, it was never used. It was located within the new crematorium, a larger building whose construction with four ovens became necessary when the first crematorium, which had only one oven, proved inadequate."

- from museum booklet
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Dachau/Da ... kText.html

and:
Toward the end of World War II, I was a US Army captain on the staff of Ambassador Robert Murphy, political advisor to General Eisenhower. I was at Dachau about a month after it had been liberated, either the end of May or the beginning of June, 1945. There was no gas chamber there, nor did I see one in the process of construction. What did occur was that some higher authority in the American occupation government, whether a civilian or military, I don't know, decreed that a gas chamber should be built, which was subsequently done.
I was also at the Buchenwald camp a few days after it was liberated on April 11, 1945. There was a crematory there but no gas chamber.

Homer G. Richey
Charlottesville, Virginia

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v19/v19n2_Letters.html
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Vallon » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 4:09 pm)

Hannover wrote:Vallon posts a quote from:

''Crime Doctor,' McCallum & Larson, p. 61. ISBN 0-916076-20-2; Library of Congress Catalog Number: 78-16403

I note that he leaves off the publication date of 1979. Interesting, since we have later info. which debunks Vallon's quote.

In an 1980 newspaper interview Larson said:
"What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."

- Wichita Eagle, April 1, 1980, p. 4C.
Short quotes from books or even shorter quotes from newspaper articles won't resolve the question of what Larson observed. It would be interesting to compare those statements with his original 1945 reports and notes. Did anybody ever dig up that material?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 5:33 pm)

Sorry Vallon, one need not recite voluminous verbiage a la 'War & Peace' to make a point. Larson said quite simply in 1980:
"What we've heard is that six million Jews were exterminated. Part of that is a hoax." And what part was the hoax? Dr. Larson, who told his biographer that to his knowledge he "was the only forensic pathologist on duty in the entire European Theater" of Allied military operations, confirmed that "never was a case of poison gas uncovered."

- Wichita Eagle, April 1, 1980, p. 4C.

As posted, there is almost endless support for his position by others.

Now, let's get back to Bergen-Belsen. Got anything for us, Vallon?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Secret Anne X
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Postby Secret Anne X » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:50 pm)

Hi,

Actually the gassing story Dr Larson told in his book was just repeating what everyone believed happened at Dachau at the time. He certainly didn't observe any gassings! Certainly not in a gas chamber that was never used, anyway!

What he meant about no one being confirmed being gassed is in his book, where he talks about how numerous bodies were dug up and he autopsied them at Dachau and other places. I seem to recall he talked about doing these autopsies with a hunting knife (!) and that, after doing a number of them, and finding not one where gassing was the cause of death, he gave up.


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