The cremation of decomposing bodies on grates in Treblinka

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Laurentz Dahl
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The cremation of decomposing bodies on grates in Treblinka

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Feb 09, 2006 12:44 pm)

There is an aspect of the alleged cremation of 900 000 or so Jews at Treblinka that I don't think has been much adressed by revisionist scholars, namely the feasibility of cremating decomposing bodies on grates made by railroad ties.

According to orthodox historiography, approx. 694 000 Jews had been gassed and buried inside the Treblinka "Death Camp" by the end of October 1942. Just between July 23 and September 21, 366 000 Jews were supposedly gassed and buried. The gassings are supposed to have started on July 23 1942. Another 100 000 or so Jews were buried in the alleged mass graves before the Germans started excavating the graves and cremating the bodies in March 1943. The alleged cremations continued until the end of July 1943. (Mattogno & Graf, Treblinka p.14-15).

This means, that around 400 000 corpses spent somewhere between 7 months and year at the bottom of the massgraves (this depends on if the graves containing the "oldest" corpses would have been the first to be opened after the fresh (never buried) corpses had been taken care of).

According to "eye-witness" Eliyahu Rosenberg, the graves had a depth of 6 meters. As is mentioned in this interesting thread, there was allegedly a water well situated *inside of the extermination area* (which of course is utterly absurd). At a depth of 6 meters, it is likely that ground water seepage will occur. Also, keep in mind that Treblinka is located not far from river Bug.

http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Tr ... inka17.JPG
http://www.scrapbookpages.com/Poland/Tr ... inka15.JPG

It is therefore not unlikely that the undermost layers of bodies buried in the 6 meter or so deep pits at Treblinka would have come directly into contact with the ground water and been saturated.

According to this treatise on recent mass graves deep and moist mass graves tend to slow down the decomposition process (p.6).

However, one should keep in mind the alleged circumstances of the Treblinka burials:

First, a mass grave was dug. A number of Jews - thousands - were gassed and then put in the graves. A layer of soil was put over the corpses and the process repeated until the grave was full (see Mattogno & Graf p.142).

One should remember that these layers of soil between the layers of corpses could not have been very thick. Also, hundreds of thousands of corpses were buried this way during summer. As is well known, warmth (when combined with sufficient humidity and oxygen) speeds up decomposition.

When the alleged mass graves were opened beginning in March 1943, it is possible that even the oldest bodies could have had retained a lot of their soft tissues. However, as described in the essay on mass grave excavations referred to above, even corpses in mass graves of "favorable conditions" tend to fall apart if one tries to pull the limbs, due to the articulations being weakened.

Remember that the bodies in the alleged mass graves are supposed to have been exhumed using a large excavator. These kinds of machines are simply not built for exhuming corpses. When trying to lift the bodies from the graves, limbs from the corpses not directly caught in the grip of the excavator would in many cases have fallen off. In the end of the exhumation of one grave, there would be thousands of loose body parts lying around in or beside the pit. If the corpses were badly decomposed, the excavated material would resemble a sludge of rotten meat rather than human bodies.

Which brings us to the cremations.
According to orthodox Holohoax historiography, two grates made of rail road ties were used at Treblinka to cremate all of the alleged 870 000 bodies. Each grate is supposed to have consisted of five or six trail rails placed parallell to each other on 70 cm thick concrete foundations. The distance between the rails would have been around 50-60 centimeters (see Mattogno & Graf p.147-8 ). Just imagine putting tons and tons of decomposing corpses on such a grate! Not only would the grates have caved in under the 10+ meter pile of corpses, but a large number of body parts from the undermost layer of bodies would have fallen into the fire, or to the side of it.

I have some questions about this whole thing that someone here might have the answers to:

What is the actual ground water level at Treblinka?

What would be the most probable state of the corpses that had been buried the longest time before being exhumated?

How would a cold winter and the thawing thereafter affect the corpses in a mass grave? Would the process of freezing-thawing speed up the disintegration of the bodies?

What burns best: a fresh corpse, an old dessicated corpse or a non-dessicated decomposed/decomposing corpse?

Bergmann
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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Feb 09, 2006 11:50 pm)

The problem is that the alleged massgraves inside the Treblinka camp were never found.

The Polish dug a couple of investigative trenches deep in the area of the alleged location of mass graves inside the Treblinka II camp area. But they did not find remains of any bodies.

Between November 9 and 13, 1945, the Polish judge Lukaszkiewicz together with a group of workers excavated in Treblinka II with these results:

On November 9, 1945: With 20 workers in the area of alleged mass graves as indicated by eye witness Rajzman. They dug up to 6 m (18 ft) deep. They found all kinds of things, coins among others. But no human remains.

On November 10, 1945: The work continued with 36 workers. They found kitchen equipment and household goods, some Polish documents and one identification card of a German Jew, also some more coins. No human remains.

November 11, 1945: They performed a couple of test excavations where the alleged gas chamber were supposed to have been. 10 – 15 m long and 1.5 m deep (30 –45 ft by 5 ft deep). Here they came to untouched virgin soil.

Then they investigated a bomb crater, 18 ft deep and 75 ft wide. Here they discovered ashes as well as human remains. They kept on digging, found further human remains. At 7.5 m (23 ft) depth they hit the bottom of the pit and discontinued their work.

November 13, 1945: They excavated with the help of 30 workers a pit, which turned out to be a garbage dump. They found a large number of documents. There was a 3 m deep pit apparently dug by some Poles in search for gold. A large number of damaged kitchen ware and clothes , as well as coins from several European countries were discovered. At 5 m depth the excavations were discontinued.

Said judge Lukaszkiewicz in his final report on November 13, 1945: From witness reports and the results of our excavations at the camp site it can with great probability be ascertained, that no mass graves exist in the area of the camp Treblinka II.

Source: Mattogno/Graf “Treblinka. Extermination Camp or Transit Camp?”
The book can be downloaded from the Rudolf site
http://vho.org/dl/ENG/t.zip

The book cannot be purchased from Amazon.
But Amazon is advertising at the Nizkor site. The USA, the land of free speech which they attempt to export to the Middle East.

Bergmann
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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 10, 2006 1:36 am)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:I have some questions about this whole thing that someone here might have the answers to:

What is the actual ground water level at Treblinka?


“Finally, some comments on the allegedly 20-ft.-deep burial pits. First of all, it seems unlikely that the pits would have been dug that deep, as doing so would have required either complicated heavy machinery or increased expenses related to the construction of ramps. The excavators allegedly used in Treblinka would hardly have been adequate to this task.[85] At depths of 20 ft., it is also probable that ground water seepage occurs, which would have impeded or downright prevented the construction and use of pits of such depth. However, since the camp Treblinka I, with a large gravel pit, is said to have been located near Treblinka II, a ground water level lower than 20 ft. is certainly conceivable”
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndtreb.html


What would be the most probable state of the corpses that had been buried the longest time before being exhumated?

How would a cold winter and the thawing thereafter affect the corpses in a mass grave? Would the process of freezing-thawing speed up the disintegration of the bodies?


See Wikipdia “Decomposition”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decay

What burns best: a fresh corpse, an old dessicated corpse or a non-dessicated decomposed/decomposing corpse?


This was discussed before on this forum, but I can’t find the thread. If I remember correctly, it seems that a decomposed corpse burns easier.

Laurentz Dahl
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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 10, 2006 6:59 am)

Bergmann wrote: This was discussed before on this forum, but I can’t find the thread. If I remember correctly, it seems that a decomposed corpse burns easier.


Thanks. I think this is the thread you are referring to:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=31


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