Revisionist Take on Euthanasia and Human Experiments?

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ABQ
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Revisionist Take on Euthanasia and Human Experiments?

Postby ABQ » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Feb 09, 2006 9:45 pm)

I'm not aware of any revisionist research on the euthanasia program and experiments on human beings in camps. Are there any books by orthodox historians on these two subjects that revisionists would accept as authoritative? Did the euthanasia program use gassings? Thanks.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 10, 2006 8:07 pm)

ABQ:
I'm not aware of any revisionist research on the euthanasia program and experiments on human beings in camps. Are there any books by orthodox historians on these two subjects that revisionists would accept as authoritative? Did the euthanasia program use gassings? Thanks.


I don't think there are any machinations about euthenasia in camps. There are a number of references to it being carried out at hospitals and mental institutions. Could be the Germans had some kind of program for seriously impaired hopeless human beings. Most likely there are some books out, by the 'orthodox'. Most of the tales don't give much to work with from a critical angle so that would be why you don't see revisionist addressing it. That would be inspite of some orthodox saying the mass extermination of Jews was an extension of the supposed euthanasia programs. There are even some tales about various camp administrators coming from the euthanasia programs to act as advisors.

No need, from the revisionist side, to spend too much energy on the alleged euthanasia since once the main story falls so goes all the rest of the stuff with it.

As for experiments in camps? There most likely are some books about it. I come across a few mentioned but never bothered to look into them. Some of the tales can be way, way, far out there, with no restraint, like one about Mengele experimenting on some 1500 pairs of twins just at Auschwitz. For the same reason as above, revisionists don't have to spend any time with it since when the story goes so goes all the Mengele etc. tales.

Revisionist only have to address certain aspects of the story to show the lie. Once you become an established revisionist you recognize all the rest as bunk also. Like all the alleged uprisings and heroic tales of resistance, no Holocaust, no supporting truth to anything else. The domino theory on a grand scale.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:30 pm)

The practice of euthanasia in Germania during the years 1939 to 1941 is to my knowledge not disputed by revisionists. Euthanasia is even today legal in Holland and Belgium.

It is alleged that euthanasia was initially done by gassing of the patients with bottled CO. However no details are known. The present euthanasia gas chamber in the basement of Hadamar is a postwar construction.

Later the euthansia was done by lethal injection.

Prof. Dr. Karl Brandt, chief of the program, estimated during the NMT trial the total number of euthanized persons at 60,000. Only 2% of the worst cases of schizophrenia were euthanized.

He did not say anything about the use of CO gas.

Holocaust hoaxers often like to link the euthanasia program in Germany to the “Final Solution”, i.e. the gassing of Jews with diesel engine exhaust fumes in the so called extermination camps.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:44 pm)

Just key in 'euthanasia' using the search function here. We've pretty well demolished the lies and innuendos made about the German euthanasia program, which was quite legal.

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Postby Malle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:07 am)

If memory serves me correct, Sweden had also plans for a euthanasia program at that time. But when the bad, bad Nazis had it, it’s outrageous.

As Bergmann points out, is even today legal in Holland and Belgium. Why doesn’t that upset us? Are the Dutch’s and Belgians Nazis because of that?
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Postby simon1003 » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:47 pm)

I do recall some pictures from a book called The Hitler File, it showed what it claimed were SS high altitude pressure experiments (presumably for the luftwaffe), they showed various stages of a man in some discomfort as he was allegedly subjected to high pressure, the last picture was of the same man's brain (as if in an autopsy), the caption read that it was the dissection of his brain showing the air bubbles that occurred because of the high pressure. I don't know how true it is.

The same book also showed a woman in the late stages of malnutrition being held up in a hospital ward by two nurses, the caption claims that the woman was a soviet prisoner of war who had been subjected to 'starvation experiments'.

There were also some rumours which persist to this day, that the swimming pool in Auschwitz was used to immerse prisoners in freezing water to induce hypothermia, the point being that the germans lost many airmen during the batttle of Britain who had ditched in the channel to hypothermia. I've also heard that one of the common treatments of hypothermia (snuggling up to a warm person) is still used today but some doctors refuse to use this treatment on the grounds that it was discovered via unethical means.

Can any one shed any light on this?

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 11, 2006 7:09 pm)

simon1003 wrote:
The same book also showed a woman in the late stages of malnutrition being held up in a hospital ward by two nurses, the caption claims that the woman was a soviet prisoner of war who had been subjected to 'starvation experiments'.


I find such a allegation highly unlikely, unless some type of evidence was also submitted to sustain the allegation.
Couldn't it have been a victim of typhus, who for some reason, was photographed in the hospital ward? For all we know this photograph, and I have a pretty good idea which one you are thinking of, could have been a poor woman who received treatment for undernourishment and typhus or perhaps some other disease. Why would the Germans photograph a woman who they supposedly starved so that they could observe what would happen to her? I think the Germans knew how starvation worked, especially since Germany was subject of "starvation experiments" after WWI aswell.

You have to look at these allegations and ask yourself, "Do the claims make sense?", "Are there evidence to support these claims?" -- if the answer is a negative to both questions, then it is very likely the allegations are simply untrue, as so many other claims are.

I Personally tend to disbelieve most of these fantastic allegations unless evidence is offered. No doubt some experiments on humans happend; but they mainly involved finding cures for diseases, and there are horror stories regarding that too. Everything about that period is being told as one gaint "horror story", usually with little or no resemblance to reality and what actually happend.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Feb 11, 2006 8:36 pm)

Simon 1003:
I've also heard that one of the common treatments of hypothermia (snuggling up to a warm person) is still used today but some doctors refuse to use this treatment on the grounds that it was discovered via unethical means.


If, say, a Nazi doctor had perfected open heart by-pass surgery it would be taboo to perform the procedure today?

There was an article about 7 or 8 years ago in either the New York or L.A. Times. It was about complaints against an anatomy book used in colleges by a famous German doctor (Name not recalled) and the protest claimed he got all his research and knowledge from dissecting Jewish Holocaust bodies.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 07, 2006 11:53 am)

This site gives a chronological list of human experimentation in the US. It gives some context to the German experiments.

http://www.newstarget.com/019189.html

If doctors refuse to use methods pioneered through Nazi experiments on humans, then there are several other common procedures on this list that they must also drop, including the use of spinal taps, the safety of which was tested out on 29 children at Boston's Children's Hospital.

The German experiments - the ones that aren't fantasy - kind of fit in well with the least horrific of the experiments listed.

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Postby vincentferrer » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:49 pm)

Euthanasia is legal today in Oregon. Efforts to place this measure
on the ballot in California are proceeding.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Tue Mar 07, 2006 10:47 pm)

A key point regarding euthanasia and the holocaust is that the Jews 'got even' with the people who were involved in the euthanasia progam by pinning part of the holocaust on them, that being the so-called Reinhard camps (Treblinka, Sobibor, Belzec.)

Euthanasia is a form of "group evolutionary strategy." And Kevin MacDonald has written extensively on Jewish Group Evolutionary Strategy. From reading his books, one could see why the Jews were incensed (angered) by the German euthanasia program. But I won't get into that since I don't want to go off-topic.

Anyway, when you see the trial statistics with people getting sentenced for Treblinka, Belzec, and Sobibor, their occupations are sometimes "male nurse." An occupation that makes sense in euthanasia but not much sense in a "death camp."

Franz Suchomel is an example.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:30 am)

This keeps coming up. Yes, the Nazis had a "euthanasia" program. In 1939 supposedly in response to a letter from the parents of a severely handicapped child Hitler announced the formation of a special group to deal with "mercy death" for the severely handicapped and he had earlier endorsed the idea of ridding Germany of the "weakest" Germans as a way of improving the German race as he saw it. A "Reich Commission for the Scientific Registration of Hereditary and Constitutional Severe Disorders" with obvious eugenic purposes came about.

The "right to die" (sound familiar?) was promoted with little opposition but this soon led to the imposition of "mercy deaths" on the "incurable" with little public notice. Even the deformed were included. Then the German people started to notice and strong opposition arose, particularly in the Churches. In December 1940 the Vatican condemned the program. Bishop Clemens Count von Galen of Munster who was always close to arrest preached openly to this end. The official number of patient-victims is 70,273 but the actual number is probably about 105,000. By 1941 the Nazi leadership had effectively ended the program because of the internal opposition of the German people. Bergmann is correct that Holocaust propaganda has tried to associate this program with the supposed "gas chamber" stories in the east and this is still promoted by many out of ignorance. I can give examples.

One amusing story about the Church opposition tells that a Nazi official stood up in von Galen's church and shouted that those who did not contribute to German's struggle with their own flesh and blood or that of their children should remain silent to which van Galen scolded sarcastically "I forbid anyone in this church, whoever it may be, to criticize the Fuehrer." If nothing else it tells something about the spirit of the times which is not what we hear today.

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Postby Charles Krafft » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:47 am)

ABQ:
I'm not aware of any revisionist research on the euthanasia program and experiments on human beings in camps. Are there any books by orthodox historians on these two subjects that revisionists would accept as authoritative? Did the euthanasia program use gassings? Thanks.



This member's request was for titles of orthodox BOOKS about the TF euthanasia program. Here is the only reference to a BOOK about the subject I could find after 20 minutes of wading through everyone's two cents on the subject in the "euthanasia" threads. I finally gave up.

"I have a whole book about it: Burleigh “Death and Deliverance. Euthanasia in Germany 1900-1945”.

In it is the construction of a gas chamber in the basement of the`hospital Hadamar described, based on the`testimony of a plumber Scherwing before a German post war court, who installed in the alleged gas chamber a row of showerheads at the ceiling and a ¾ inch gas pipe 75 cm above the ground in which 50 to 60 4mm holes were drilled underneah the benches, airtight doors and a ventilator."

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:57 am)

Charles:

What trial was that? Where was it?

What exactly did Schwering say?

Do you have verbatim court transcripts? If not, why not?

What else does this book say?

'Hadamar', more nonsense covered at this forum, just search 'Hadamar'.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Mar 08, 2006 12:54 pm)

I'm not aware of any revisionist research on the euthanasia program and experiments on human beings in camps.


Check out this post below. It's a reprint from a Time Magazine article that is about experiments. It is so ridiculous that you only need to read their works (not revisionist works) to know what a lie it all is.

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=1586


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