Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

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Drew J
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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Drew J » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:25 pm)

BTW, from what I've just learned, there is no proof what-so-ever that Kola ever stepped foot in Sobibor.

Then what are we to make of those core samples that are said to be from Sobibor? I guess I'd like to know where Muehlenkamp got those since he posted them on rodoh without a bibliography.

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:29 pm)

Drew

In this post, we see.. photos of Sobibor core samples



And look what Muehlenkamp admits:


11 - Can you provide a photo of a core sample of the alleged "charred human remains / burnt body remains" taken from "grave" #1[-8], in which the contents of said core sample has been proven to be - via scientific analysis, actual human remains? YES or NO?
Bobo's answer: NO

12 - Can you provide a photo of a core sample containing human remains in a "wax-fat transformation" taken from "grave" #1[-8] YES or NO?
Bobo's answer: NO

13 - Can you provide a photo of Kola actually investigating "grave" #1[-8]? YES or NO?
Bobo's answer: NO


Is Muehlenkamp able to tell us where those core samples in those photos were taken?

Let me guess - no?

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:37 pm)

I have a question for "bobo" about Belzec


Can you provide a photo of a core sample of the alleged human remains taken from "graves" # 1 - 33, in which the contents of said core samples has been proven to be - via scientific analysis, actual human remains?

YES or NO?


OH-FER 33!

Who's got who drew?

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Drew J » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 7:57 pm)

Yeah I know. It's starting to come a lot clearer now. I guess I was initially overwhelmed with the lengths of his blog responses and math equations in part four and five of his Belzec reply article. I guess that's one of his tactics. Drag everything out instead of getting to the point with photos, video, and other such documentation instead of wasting time complaining about people not accepting his low standard of evidence in regards to Kola's 1999 Belzec work and that polish article about the theft of gold and teeth with no photos of the stolen goods, just the perps. :lol: And violating Occam's Razor in the process since it doesn't make sense that people forgot to document a holocaust and theft of property when they were trying to document a holocaust and theft of property and had the chance to do so. :lol:

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:20 pm)

Drew

And violating Occam's Razor...



Which you yourself have done drew.


It's sooooooo simple drew.


No graves = No holocaust


2.1 million jews at Belzec, Babi Yar, Chelmno, Sobibor and Treblinka, yet not one single grave.

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Drew J » 9 years 10 months ago (Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:25 pm)

Pepper wrote:Drew

In this post, we see.. photos of Sobibor core samples



And look what Muehlenkamp admits:


11 - Can you provide a photo of a core sample of the alleged "charred human remains / burnt body remains" taken from "grave" #1[-8], in which the contents of said core sample has been proven to be - via scientific analysis, actual human remains? YES or NO?
Bobo's answer: NO

12 - Can you provide a photo of a core sample containing human remains in a "wax-fat transformation" taken from "grave" #1[-8] YES or NO?
Bobo's answer: NO

13 - Can you provide a photo of Kola actually investigating "grave" #1[-8]? YES or NO?
Bobo's answer: NO


Is Muehlenkamp able to tell us where those core samples in those photos were taken?

Let me guess - no?

Which is strange because he seems so cocksure here.
http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... pdate.html
Gerdes knows as well as I do, from our long discussions on VNN, that the current archaeological investigators don't have any core samples from Prof. Kola’s archaeological investigation at their disposal, or even information as to the exact spots in the area where these samples were collected (which would be the minimum they need to match GPR finds with core drilling finds). In other words, the liar is (again) trying to make believe, against better knowledge, that Prof. Kola's investigation in 2001 and the current archaeological research, which are actually unrelated to each other, are part of one and the same undertaking.

The "alleged core samples" that Gerdes refers to are the following, already shown in previous updates:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/ ... rillF5.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/ ... rillF6.jpg

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c166/ ... rillF7.jpg

Readers of the aforementioned VNN thread may have noticed that Gerdes has still not managed, or even tried, to provide a plausible alternative explanation as to what, other than ashes of human bone and tissue, the light-gray substance visible on the first two sample photos might be. Or what, other than either lime or bone ash, might be the white substance visible in the third sample. Those core samples must be giving him nightmares, like the satellite photo he shot himself in the foot with.

Given what you just quoted in terms of that exchange, isn't it Muehlenkamp who should be having nightmares given his admissions? I don't know where you got that exchange from but I'm betting he was hoping it wouldn't circulate too much on the internet. That way, he can say, "Oh well what else are they?" without any evidence to back them up. Just an argument from ignorance. Here's an idea. How about a lab test to prove they are what you and kola say they are? How about testing the ash to actually figure out its origin since someone said somewhere that was actually possible. Human ash or wood ash can apparently be determined in a proper laboratory. Why the lack of reports, photos and videos regarding that?

Again, holocaust gas chamber and gas van mongers shouldn't forget to properly and sufficiently document something they are trying to document and prove. They only stop short if they are afraid of not getting the results they want.

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 10 months ago (Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:12 pm)

Drew

isn't it Muehlenkamp who should be having nightmares given his admissions? ...I'm betting he was hoping it wouldn't circulate too much on the internet.



I'll say. It looks like every place Muehlenkamp goes on the internet he gets his ass kicked in some debate.

I was doing some digging around and found that Gredes challenged Muehlenkamp to prove that Belzec's grave # 10 contained the remains of just 60 jews, and Muehlenkamp couldn't do it. He was even offered $5,000.00 if he could do it and he couldn't prove 1/10 of 1% of the alleged bodies in grave #10.

But despite all his admissions that he can't prove squat, he keeps beating his head against the wall trying desperately to get others to believe in his delusions.

That's the true believers for you.


Drew

Why the lack of reports, photos and videos regarding that?



The funny thing is, they do claim that they have such, but they just won't release them.

O'Neils Videos of Belzec and Hartford U's GPS of Sobibor come immediately to mind.

There is supposed to have been an archaeological investigation of Chelmno too, but I've yet to see a single photo of it.

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 9 months ago (Mon Sep 28, 2009 6:45 pm)

Drew, I think this is a much better place for this post than the Treblinka thread. Plus, I think this thread needed a much deserved bump.


Originally posted by Drew on the 30 Treblinka questions thread:


Here is another email from Gerdes that I am reproducing with his permission.



Hello again Drew,

I will now show you what a pathetic liar roberta is with regards to her claims that “I got cold feet” with Belzec.
Please look at my post #1133 on the VNN forum site.

Here she is complaining about the extreme difficulty and outright impossibility of actually being able to prove the existence of 1% of the human remains in the claimed “graves,” specifically grave #10:

“If, on the other hand, what Gerdes wants to see is a physical quantification of human remains contained in grave # 10 at Belzec and an expert's confirmation that the remains so quantified correspond to at least 6,000 human bodies, his requirements are at least very difficult to meet. For they would imply the following:

i) Excavating this mass grave (something that Prof. Kola did not do due to considerations of respect for the dead he had to comply with, see Part 1 of my Mattogno-Belzec article),
ii) Extracting the layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" contained therein,
iii) Separating the crematory remains from the charcoal,
iv) Establishing the weight and volume of the crematory remains thus separated and
v) Having an expert provide an assessment of the number of human bodies to which these crematory remains correspond.

First of all, it is unlikely that anyone will obtain permission to excavate any of the Belzec mass graves, already because the area has been turned into an elaborate memorial.

Second, even if excavations were to be authorized, despite the disturbances of the memorial area they would presumably imply, long and arduous archaeological work would be required to remove the aforementioned layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" from the mass grave.

Third, once the layers of "crematory remains mixed with charcoal" had been extracted from the grave, how would one separate the charcoal from the crematory remains in a manner that allows for accurately quantifying the latter? I strongly doubt that this is possible. But maybe Gerdes can tell us how he would do it.

Fourth, assuming that the crematory remains can be separated from the charcoal in a manner allowing for reliably quantifying the crematory remains, could an expert in matters of cremation accurately establish to how many human beings these remains belonged? One doesn’t have to be a cremation expert to realize that this is impossible, considering the variables involved, and that the most an expert can provide is an estimate based on assumptions that, however reasonable and realisitic they may be, cannot be empirically confirmed.

So if Gerdes were only to accept as proof an exact physical quantification in the sense described above, he would be asking for something that is very hard if not impossible to accomplish.

So which of them is it, Mr. Gerdes?

Will you accepta reasonable, evidence-backed estimate, like those presented above, as proof that Belzec grave # 10 contains the remains of at least 6,000 dead people?

If so, better go get your money.

Or will you require a precise physical quantification that, for the reasons described above, is very difficult if not impossible to accomplish?”

And here, in post 1153, I tell roberta that I will accept his “proof” as proof if Archaeology Magazine will publish it:

“I tell you what dull one, since you want so badly to have your drivel published in Archaeology Magazine, I will let them be the final arbitrator of whether or not what you just presented as "proof" is actually proof. If Archaeology Magazine will publish it, I will consider it proof. The only caveat is - it has to be in the EXACT form as is shown above.”

Now go to my post #1176:

“So let's recap the Belzec grave #10 "evidence" retardo has proven to date - shall we?

Not even 600 bodies - out of the alleged 60,000.

(Which proves that Kola's "report" is a fraud.)


I have three follow up questions for the dull one:

1 - How much human remains did Kola actually find in Belzecs grave #10?

2 - Out of the alleged 1,920,000 teeth allegedly in said "huge mass grave," how many teeth did he find?

3 - Just what part of the word proof do you not understand?

(And no, "assumptions based on estimates" is not proof stupid.)


I tell you what dull one, since you want so badly to have your drivel published in Archaeology Magazine, I will let them be the final arbitrator of whether or not what you just presented as "proof" is actually proof. If Archaeology Magazine will publish it, I will consider it proof. The only caveat is - it has to be in the EXACT form as is shown above.

What are you waiting for dull one?

(After all, you do want $5,000.00 donated to The Sobibor Archaeology Project in your name, don't you?)


Retardo:

"Make it $100,000.00 for proving the existence of just one mass grave at Chelmno, Belzec, Sobibor or Treblinka, Gerdes."


First off, it already is for Sobibor and Treblinka - what are you, retarded?

Second, Chelmno is being reserved for jew-lie Golden and Archaeology Magazine. But you already know that, don't you? So why bring it up? Oh yeah, it's because you're retarded. (BTW dull one, why do you think jew-lie Golden refuses to accept nafcash's challenge?)

As for Belzec, you need to prove that grave #10 has the remains of 600 jews in it first. Think of it as your training wheels. Or, more appropriately, for a faggot like you - your first butt plug.



*Please note here:

The above exchange was before the nafcash challenge requirements were lowered from 1% to just 1/10 of 1%. So what roberta was being told was, if she could prove just 1/10 of 1% of the alleged amount in “grave” #10, Belzec would be put back into the nafcash challenge as was – 1%. All she had to do was submit her “proof” to Archaeology Magazine, and if they published it, she would get the $5,000.00 donated in her name and Belzec would be put back into the challenge equally with Sobibor and Treblinka.



Now go to my post #1232:


BTW folks, retardo's posting of the "drawings" of the alleged core samples was the reason why I was challenging her to show us just one tooth at Belzec. So now, all we're waiting for her to do is submit her "proof" to Archaeology magazine. (I will allow you to include those drawings dull one.)

So all we have is drawings of alleged core samples at Belzec, and at Sobibor, we don't even have that!

Of course, we're still waiting for O'Neil to release the films he says he took at Belzec.

Why do you think he refuses to do so retardo? I will also allow you to submit stills from O’Neil’s films to Archaeology Magazine retardo if he ever releases them. (Don't you think 10 years is a little long to hold back such incredible evidence? What's he waiting for?)

BTW, do you know what it is he's trying to hide?

Retardo:

"You removed Belzec from the challenge to keep your money safe for as long as possible. So now you will put it back in, Mr. Gerdes."

We will consider it as soon as O'Neil releases his Belzec films.

Now dull one, if we are the ones calling for the release of evidence that could prove the Belzec holocaust once and for all, then your claim that we're worried about keeping our money safe is baseless. In fact, we are also challenging Shermer to release all information he has about his alleged Belzec investigation. We want the dates he allegedly was there, what type of research he allegedly did at the camp and a complete report of his findings.

Will you join us in challenging O'Neil and Shermer to release this information? If you don't, your accusations are proven baseless and fraudulent.
Let's see you make a public challenge to these frauds to do so.


My post 1251:


Retardo:

"You can challenge O’Neill and Shermer all you like, but this won’t change the fact that you’re obviously afraid of re-including Belzec in the $100,000 NAFCASH challenge."

Well then, if you really believe that, then we will include the entire Belzec team - A. Kola, M. Gora, R.Kazmierczak, W. Azulta, Z. Wieczorkowski, M. Tregenza. (Along with O'Neil and Shermer.)

(Thank you dull one. Have I ever told you that you're priceless?)

Retardo:

"If Gerdes is so convinced that an archaeologist’s description of his archaeological findings is not evidence but a mere allegation, what’s he waiting for to re-include Belzec in the §100,000 NAFCASH challenge and thus increase that challenge’s publicity effect? If you think that drawings of "alleged" core samples from Belzec is "all" we have, what’s keeping you from re-including Belzec in the $100,000 NAFCASH challenge, Mr. Gerdes?"

We're waiting for all of the above to accept nafcash's challenge that they can't prove that so much as 600 jews are buried in Belzec's grave #10, a grave that is claimed to contain the remains of 60,000 jews.

Will you help nafcash publish the fact that we are publicly challenging them retardo?


And as for retardo's "we," it appears that retardo is afraid to submit her "evidence" to Archaeology Magazine that grave #10 contains 600 jews. I'll give you to the end of this month to submit it Roberta. If your "evidence" isn't submitted by then, the offer to you is null and void, and the reward offered shifts over to the above mentioned people.

Thank you for providing the impetus for a new challenge / reward dull one. And please notice Roberta's 180 shift about offering money to locate the remains of jews. Do you recall all the times you said that money shouldn't be offered for locating these alleged remains? I'll look it up and show all those reading how situational her positions are.

Thank you dull one. That's why we keep you around - you're simply priceless.


My post #1261:


Retardo:

"Why are you so afraid of re-including Belzec in the $100,000 NAFCASH challenge, Mr. Gerdes?"

Oh dull one, have you not been reading my posts? It is nafcash that is calling for information long withheld to be released. We're waiting for A. Kola, M. Gora, R.Kazmierczak, W. Azulta, Z. Wieczorkowski, M. Tregenza, R O'Neil and M Shermer to accept nafcash's challenge that they can't prove that so much as 600 jews are buried in Belzec's grave #10, a grave that is claimed to contain the remains of 60,000 jews. (Unless you take up the challenge first - you only have two weeks left.)

BTW dull one, do you know why O'Neil refuses to release his films from Belzec? Do you know why Shermer refuses to release his report on his investigation? Will you join nafcash in calling for these frauds to release this information? (BTW retardo, do you have any idea what they're trying to hide?)

Retardo:

"Money has never been my concern let alone my primary objective, and I also have no doubt that evidence meeting the NAFCASH challenge requirements, even according to unreasonably high standards of evidence. But then, that’s too much to ask of someone with as limited an intellect and argumentative repertoire as mine."


Yes retardo, "limited" is a very concise way to describe your intellect. I guess locating just one of the 13 "huge mass graves" of Treblinka and Sobibor is an unreasonably high standard of evidence for the dull one to meet.

I guess proving just one percent of the alleged mass murder of Treblinka and Sobibor is an unreasonably high standard of evidence for the dull one to meet.

But guess what dull one?

Nafash is going to make winning the $100,000.00 THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE even easier!

I hope to have all changes made / official by this Sat.

And don’t' worry your damaged little brain retardo. The whole challenge will remain essentially the same. The requirements are just going to be made easier / less stringent so even a cowardly retard like yourself will be able to easily meet them.

And guess what dull one? Nafcash owes it all to you! All your lies have made it so obvious to the sponsors of THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE that there is virtually no evidence what-so-ever at these camps, they've agreed to the changes with nary an objection.

My post 1348:

… thanks to the little faggot, the nafcash site and THE FINAL SOLUTION FORENSIC CHALLENGE have been simplified, clarified and focused - i.e. - much improved and much easier for the average Joe to understand. And of course, we also wouldn't have lowered the bar from 1% to just 1/10th of 1% if it hadn't been for the retards incessant lies and constant insults to the supporters of nafcash's challenge.Thank you retardo. (Have I ever told you that you're priceless?)

My post #1420:

BTW retardo, did you send your "proof" of the remains of 600 jews in Blezec's grave #10 to Archaeology Magazine?

I didn't think so.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

Thank you dull one.

Priceless!

Telll us why you didn't dull one.

* And things pretty much just died on the subject after that. I gave him 30 days to submit her “proof” to Archaeology Magazine and she got cold feet.

The challenge to the team of Kola, M. Gora, R.Kazmierczak, W. Azulta, Z. Wieczorkowski, M. Tregenza, R O'Neil, M Shermer, roberta and archaeology magazine is still on the table. As is our challenge to O’Neil to release the films he claims he took at Belzec. And the Chelmno challenge to jew-lie golden, roberta and archaeology magazine is still on the table as well.
So who’s got cold feet?

BTW, see also the thread on the codoh forum: Gerdes pledges to pay Kola's Sobibor bill.

Well, I think that should be enough. If not, let me know.
Also, you are really kicking roberta’s ass on the codoh forum.
Keep it up, as the liars are really on the defensive.
We’ve got izzy in a tizzy.
Now is not the time to let up, but to increase the pressure.
Keep up the good fight and I’ll talk to you later.

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 9 months ago (Mon Sep 28, 2009 7:05 pm)

Gerdes

“I tell you what dull one, since you want so badly to have your drivel published in Archaeology Magazine, I will let them be the final arbitrator of whether or not what you just presented as "proof" is actually proof. If Archaeology Magazine will publish it, I will consider it proof."



So mulenkamp was given the chance to let Archaeology Magazine (which had already proven to be biased in his favor) be the final arbitrator of what would be considered the truth, with $5,000.00 on the line, and mulenkamp chickened out.

What a coward.


Gerdes

So who got cold feet?



Well it's obvious that mulenkamp did.

What a liar.

What mulenkamp said was the exact opposite of the truth.

But what else would we expect from "the dull one?"

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby Pepper » 9 years 9 months ago (Tue Sep 29, 2009 2:30 pm)

Mulenkamp

“If, on the other hand, what Gerdes wants to see is a physical quantification of human remains contained in grave # 10 at Belzec and an expert's confirmation that the remains so quantified correspond to at least 6,000 human bodies, his requirements are at least very difficult to meet... First of all, it is unlikely that anyone will obtain permission to excavate any of the Belzec mass graves... Second, even if excavations were to be authorized... long and arduous archaeological work would be required... Third... how would one... accurately quantify...? I strongly doubt that this is possible... Fourth... One doesn’t have to be a cremation expert to realize that this is impossible... and that the most an expert can provide is an estimate based on assumptions that... cannot be empirically confirmed... Gerdes... [is] asking for something that is very hard if not impossible to accomplish. So which of them is it, Mr. Gerdes... will you require a precise physical quantification that, for the reasons described above, is very difficult if not impossible to accomplish?”

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Re: Belzec: a fraudulent excavation

Postby KostasL » 9 years 9 months ago (Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:48 am)

Pepper wrote:Mulenkamp

“If, on the other hand, what Gerdes wants to see is a physical quantification of human remains contained in grave # 10 at Belzec and an expert's confirmation that the remains so quantified correspond to at least 6,000 human bodies, his requirements are at least very difficult to meet... First of all, it is unlikely that anyone will obtain permission to excavate any of the Belzec mass graves... Second, even if excavations were to be authorized... long and arduous archaeological work would be required... Third... how would one... accurately quantify...? I strongly doubt that this is possible... Fourth... One doesn’t have to be a cremation expert to realize that this is impossible... and that the most an expert can provide is an estimate based on assumptions that... cannot be empirically confirmed... Gerdes... [is] asking for something that is very hard if not impossible to accomplish. So which of them is it, Mr. Gerdes... will you require a precise physical quantification that, for the reasons described above, is very difficult if not impossible to accomplish?”


The holocaust by a believer's words : very difficult , unlikely , strongly doubt(ful) , very hard if not impossible , very difficult if not impossible !!! 8)
When you realize that the Holocaust is a LIE, then all of a sudden, ALL your questions, ALL bizarre and strange things, disappear, and ALL things make sense, at last.


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