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Tom
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Postby Tom » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Mar 13, 2006 12:21 pm)

Radar wrote: it is certainly true that the Holocaust as a matter in the US schools is NOT
taught as a subject of history. If it was there would have to be discussion
of the actual claims....

I witnessed this personally when I tried to challenge a school curriculum
from outside and was brushed aside as a troublemaker.

I don't know how to overcome this and it should be discussed more here.

Radar,

I agree with you most emphatically! But it should not only be discussed here -
- but in every conversation concerned with revisionism and/or any and all free
speech issues.

I am not sure how to overcome this either.

But I am sure that if revisionists and all other un-pc folks don't address
this blending of (alleged) history and Holocaust theology then the future
for free inquiry and free speech of any kind will be far bleaker, in the extreme,
than the present.

Tom

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Mar 13, 2006 5:17 pm)

I have never seen on the US media, TV, radio, newspapers, that any of the major religions is ever criticized. And neither is the Jewish Holocaust myth.

(A myth is something which is believed to be true by a large number of people, although it does not hold up to a rational review)

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:28 pm)

Bergmann:
I have never seen on the US media, TV, radio, newspapers, that any of the major religions is ever criticized. And neither is the Jewish Holocaust myth.

I see plenty of attacks/criticisms of Christians & Muslims, almost constantly.

A relentless barrage about Catholics and the alleged molestations of children by Priests. The attacks upon the Pope, and all of Christianity, for 'allowing the 'Holocaust' to happen, they are even said to have been active in the alleged process. You see constant anti-Christian imagery where the cross is alway an evil symbol. Look what happened with Mel Gibson's film 'Passion .....'. The judeo-supremacists never let up.

Islam is constantly portrayed as a religion of violence, as backward, and worthy if subjugation by the West for the interests of Israel.

All this while Jewish fundamentalism goes untouched. While the religious state of Israel actually does what it blames on Christians and Muslims. Where the fraudulent 'holocau$t' religion is certainly not criticized, it's promoted relentlessly 24/7.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Daniel Saez Lorente » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:16 am)

Of course the flip side to all this is that religions are very easy to ridicule, and the Holocaust is no exception. This is why religious people are so eaily offended. No scientist is offended if you say don't believe in something scientific.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:44 am)

Daniel Saez Lorente wrote:Of course the flip side to all this is that religions are very easy to ridicule, and the Holocaust is no exception. This is why religious people are so eaily offended. No scientist is offended if you say don't believe in something scientific.


Oh, I don't think that's true. Some scientists are very dogmatic. I am not religious and certainly not a creationist, but I have some problems with some of the central tenets of evolution. Many scientists become enraged if you question Darwinist dogma.

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Postby vincentferrer » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:27 am)

Most people, have little to no tolerance for revisionism.

In my experience, I have convinced dozens of Christians to see the holocaust as a scam.
But I have not had luck in the evolution crowd. It seems to me, the evidence presented to them, does not matter.

The nastiest rebukes have come from self described atheists, people I know, who scream' you are the most despicable racist.'

Now, if that was a 9th grade educated cab driver, you might ignore it.

But a Ph.D NASA scientist ! Good grief.

err, this is not about RACE , Ms know it all !

It is about a historical event, which has been blown out of proportion and wildly exaggerated.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:50 am)

My dear Mr.Lorente,

You say that "religions are very easy to ridicule...", hmmmm, I'm not so sure that's right, but you then go on to say "and the Holocaust is no exception". Oh my, I don't know from where you are viewing things but I'd like you to give me one example of someone ridiculing the Big H in the public media in the United States or Europe. Just one. That person ridiculing the sacred dogma, if he ever get published or aired, which is doubtful, would be marked for destruction, perhaps literally but certainly professionally.

And it is not even ridicule which brings down this punishment but mere questioning or doubts. Total acceptance is demanded. Case Closed!

That's our problem.

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Postby Tom » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 2:39 pm)

Hannover wrote:
... (guilt) ...all of Christianity, for 'allowing the 'Holocaust' to happen...

the fraudulent 'holocau$t' religion is certainly not criticized,

it's promoted relentlessly 24/7.

Hannover,

That is the gist of The Holocaust Theology that is being preached and
taught to Christians today. The combination of having this indoctrination
come from both the media and the churches, divinity schools, public
schools and etc. has proved to be most effective.

I have watched the Christian religion change dramatically over my lifetime.

Today's Christianity being preached is not the same Christianity as was
being preached in my youth, despite being constantly told that "God
doesn't change" by preachers etc.

The theology that is being taught in churches, colleges and Christian
theological seminaries today is not the same Christian theology that
was taught when I was in college.

And with the Holocaust theology being preached to them, from the highest
leadership of Christian organizations and churches down to the Sunday
schools, tomorrow's Christians are going to be a very different kind of
Christian yet.

They are fast becoming Holocaustians and I doubt the trend will stop or
slow down. The change will only accelerate. Those holding the reigns of
power know fully well how valuable and powerful the masses belief in a
religion can be. I doubt that we will see much derivation from the current
trend.


No offense is intended, but in a nutshell the change,
if current trends continue, may be described as:
(of course every denomination is somewhat different)


Yesterday's Christian: Jesus (one Jew) died (was crucified) for your sins.

Tomorrow's Christian: Six Million Jews died (were crucified) because of your sins.


I think that revisionists, in the very near future, are going to find that free
speech and inquiry does not get a very good reception from this new kind
of Christian that are being indoctrinated by the millions right now.

Sorry if this sounds pessimistic. I'm just trying to present a realistic picture
of the problems that are ahead for all of us.

Tom

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 6:39 pm)

In case you haven't been paying atttention to this sort of thing:

Archbishop of Westminster Labels Holocaust Denial as "Sacrilege"
http://www.totalcatholic.com/universe/i ... &arcmonth=

The Archbishop of Westminster, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor has said that Holocaust Denial is tantamount to "sacrilege" after he issued a message of solidarity to Britain's Jewish community ahead of of Holocaust Memorial Day, on January 27, 2006.
[...]
"History's greatest evil remains barely graspable by the human mind. But I glimpsed something of it at a visit once to Auschwitz, where a room contained suitcases stamped with the initials of those who were taken to the gas chamber.
[...]
"The Catholic Church solemnly teaches that Jesus was a descendant of David; that Mary and the Apostles belonged to the Jewish people; that the Church is nourished by its roots in Judaism; and that the Jews are our 'elder brothers and sisters' in faith. The Catholic people of the world stand with Jews against anti-semitism and holocaust denial, and in defence of the God-given dignity of all human beings. We are one human family: today's commemoration is especially that of the Jewish people, but it is also that of the victims of genocide everywhere and throughout history. We can never forget."

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 7:08 pm)

The question is whether the Archbishop was believing or was hoaxing.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:20 pm)

The Catholic people of the world stand with Jews against anti-semitism and holocaust denial, and in defence of the God-given dignity of all human beings. We are one human family: today's commemoration is especially that of the Jewish people, but it is also that of the victims of genocide everywhere and throughout history. We can never forget.

What an irrational chump. How duped can one be?

Here is an Archbishop claiming that Jews support the notion of a 'human family' while they deny non-Jews admission into Israel. While Jews are engaging in ethnic cleansing and genocide in Palestine. What a shabbos goy judeo-supremacism has found in the Archbishop of Westminster.

I wonder what it would be like if I could get this shaman to sit down and debate the 'holocau$t'. Not a pretty sight I'm sure.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Tom » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:39 pm)

Hannover wrote:What an irrational chump. How duped can one be?

Hannover

The Archbishop is just following the Pope who basically says the same thing.
This is pretty much the same 'preaching', with slight variation, for both
Catholics and Protestants.

The Jews are "The Elder Brothers in Faith (Christ)" or so the preachers preach!


Hannover wrote:Here is an Archbishop claiming that Jews support the notion of a 'human family'


Hannover,

You might want to reread the Archbishop's statment.

The Archbishop did not say that the Jews support the notion of a 'human family'.

The Archbishop said that Catholics support that notion.



Archbishop of Westminster Labels Holocaust Denial as "Sacrilege"

. The Catholic people of the world stand with Jews against anti-semitism
and holocaust denial, and in defence of the God-given dignity of all human
beings. We are one human family: today's commemoration is especially
that of the Jewish people, but it is also that of the victims of genocide
everywhere and throughout history. We can never forget."


Tom

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Postby Daniel Saez Lorente » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:53 pm)

Radar wrote:My dear Mr.Lorente,

You say that "religions are very easy to ridicule...", hmmmm, I'm not so sure that's right, but you then go on to say "and the Holocaust is no exception". Oh my, I don't know from where you are viewing things but I'd like you to give me one example of someone ridiculing the Big H in the public media in the United States or Europe. Just one. That person ridiculing the sacred dogma, if he ever get published or aired, which is doubtful, would be marked for destruction, perhaps literally but certainly professionally.

And it is not even ridicule which brings down this punishment but mere questioning or doubts. Total acceptance is demanded. Case Closed!

That's our problem.


It depends what you mean by public media. How about Dr. Butz and Dr. Faurisson? Both men can be very sarcastic. Jurgen Graf also has a great sense of ironic humor. Many other revisionists come to mind. There is a lot of ridicule directed at the H. It is simply insane to believe that the Israelis and Zionists can continue committing atrocities on a huge scale, arousing worldwide hostility, spying on the US, provoking one war after another, and simultaneously expect sympathy over alleged events said to have occurred 60 or 65 years ago to continue forever. It took a century, but Christianity was destroyed largely by ridicule (for example, the Scopes Trial in Tennessee); then, today, like patriotism under Stalin, it has simply been resurrected in a different form because it suits the Jews (or Zionists, if you prefer) after all. The H is a mass mania, and none of them last forever.

You are correct that so-called scientists are very intolerant and irrational on the subject of race, which the Jews have turned into a taboo, but about supernova, or something of that nature? I don't think the average scientist would care two hoots if you said the world was flat.

In the end the whole Holocaust lie will collapse of its own weight, because of the very nature of Israel, Zionists and Jews. There's a saying in Spanish, greed breaks the bag.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:21 am)

Okay, one more go.

Hannover wrote:I wonder what it would be like if I could get this shaman to sit down and debate the 'holocau$t'. Not a pretty sight I'm sure.


You'd end up sprinkled in holy water, what else would you expect?...

Even those who don't accept what I've been saying concerning the nature of the thing, must sometimes wonder what will happen when (and if) legal censorship will cease in countries like Germany or France. Do they expect the whole thing to go away just like that, like a simple nightmare?

Of course not. It will retreat even more clearly into the religious castle keep, where "offensive speech" on the particular "Holocaust" subject will be covered by the purely "anti-hate" laws that, as of now, already exist in every single European country.

Daniel Saez Lorente wrote:In the end the whole Holocaust lie will collapse of its own weight, because of the very nature of Israel, Zionists and Jews. There's a saying in Spanish, greed breaks the bag.


Here is also a Portuguese one that should fit, at least the Palestinian situation, like a glove: "Quem tudo quer, tudo perde" (He who wants everything, ends up with nothing).

But I'm not so sure about the "Holocaust" thing.

You see, the lie has already collapsed. Now the main problem is when the news of the collapse will reach all those uninterested people who -- in their vast majority -- don't think reason and doubt should impeach the miracles and religious convictions they have learned to dearly love. Even after that, it will take a long time for the no-longer ignorant, but still believing, populace to cease resistance and agree to intellectual surrender.

If my own pre-conceptions are correct, this will take many more decades and may never happen in an absolute way. Religions don't die. They simply fade away.

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Postby vincentferrer » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:39 am)

a few comments:

The Holocaust comments from the Archbishop, are his opinion, and are not , repeat, NOT church teaching.

Some years ago, Pope John Paul II made some comment about 4,000,000
dead at Auschwitz. Well, the Pope cannot force anyone to pray for others.

And Yes, it is a shame that high level Vatican officials never stepped in and gave him the real story. Pope John XXIII was in office for 5 years 1958-1963 and said nothing about it. Pope Paul VI was in office from 1963-1978, and I have never seen a single Holocaust comment from him.

Are Catholics free to ignore the comments of a pope when he suggests people pray for 4,000,000 dead people, who obviously did not die. Of course. It has nothing to do with church teaching or Scripture.

For those people who pray, do you ask forgiveness to God of your grandfathers sins ? No.

As to calling Jews, Our Elder Brothers in The Faith, that is actually quite mistaken. As is the term Judeo -Christian, there is no such thing.

It makes as much sense as saying Judeo-Mormon huh ?


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