Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

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Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:00 pm)

I received today my copy of a new book by Mattogno/Graf: "Treblinka, Vernichtungslager oder Durchgangslager?" (Treblinka, Extermination Camp or Transfer Camp?).

The book with over 400 pages is a thorough study of the camp, looking at both sides, the orthodox Holocaust literature and the revisionistic literature. The information given in the book is based on Polish documentations found in Polish media and court archives, and Russian documents from archives in Moscow.

On page 97 starts a descriptions of the various excavations done by the Soviets together with the Polish in 1945. They found this:
1. A mass grave 10m x 5m x 2m with 105 corpses
2. A mass grave 10m x 5m x 1.9m with 97 corpses
3. A mass grave 10m x 5m x 2.5m with 103 corpses

They did not find bone remains and ashes from cremations either. And they looked all over the place, including those places indicated by eyewitnesses as the locations for the graves.

Fge

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Tue Dec 03, 2002 10:46 pm)

Background for the new reader:

- the story on Treblinka is that 900,00 Jews were killed there, buried in a huge pit, exhumed and then cremated to hide the evidence. 900,000!!
Think of it....that's 10 X the number of people that can fit into the Los Angeles Coliseum; but we have no evidence for this necessarily massive pit and no cremated remains.
Can you imagine not being able to find a pit that allegedly held 900,000 people? Even filling it in would leave a very obvious site....elevation after settling would be different, ground density and earth layers would be completely disturbed and could easily be identified with ground penetrating radar or infra-red sensors. AND, the exact location of the alleged site is known; but yet no physical evidence to support the story. It's not there, period. It's a lie, very simple.

As for the numbers cited by Sailor, there's no indication given that the graves alleged were found at all...are there verifiable photos? are there verifiable forensic studies of each site?...if so where are they? But I'll play along anyway:

- Who were these people?...battle deaths? executed saboteurs? disease victims? German soldiers?.....no info. given about that

- When were these people allegedly executed?

- No charred remains or ashes....that shoots down the possibility of them being Jews as the story alleges they were all supposed to have been cremated after being dug up from the enormous pit....oops.

- Who's to say that they weren't victims of the Red Army or Bolshevik Kommissars? The norm in Poland during the period.


Treblinka, another piece of the fraud. Once you look into it, the "holocaust" as alleged is a house of cards.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Dec 04, 2002 10:32 am)

The bodies which were found in Treblinka were apparantly the victims of a Typhus epedemic which raged in Treblinka at the time. No bullets or bullet holes were found in the sculls.

The sources given for these excavations are: Gosudarstvenni Archiv Rossiiskoi Federatsii (Stae Archive of the Russian Federation), Moscow.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Wed Dec 04, 2002 12:41 pm)

Okay, 305 typhus victims instead of 900,000 Jews. Another nail in the 'holocaust' coffin.

Let us know what else is in that book. Thanks.

- vH

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:05 pm)

Let us know what else is in that book. Thanks.


Yes.

I am not sure anymore how many Jews were actually brought to Treblinka. The numbers range from 700,000 (Höfle) to 3 Million (Soviets in 1945). In either case a lot of people. The camp is relatively small and could not possibly hold this many people at one time.
If they were not killed in the camp because there are no massgraves then the question is: Where are these people, what happened to them? Any idea?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 1:13 pm)

- 1st of all there has be a reliable source for exactly how many were sent there; as you said 3,000,000 - 700,000. I would even question the low number unless confirmed...I doubt if it can be or we wouldn't be seing such wild numbers.

- Regardless, people were sent to other camps...it's clear that transporting from one camp to other or to factories was the norm.

- In essence though, to ask Revisionists what happened to them when there is no reliable numbers nor any indication that they were 'exterminated' is an illogical request. We have what the believers say and what they say has been thoroughly debunked...so, the ball's in their court.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Dec 05, 2002 4:51 pm)

I forgot to mention:
The bodies in the three massgraves with about 100 each, which the Polish excavated in Treblinka, were arranged in layers. After 5 to 6 bodies they were covered with about 0.5m earth, indicating that the corpses were not buried all at the same time.

Also in 1945 the Polish workers checked the whole camp area for further graves. Besides those three graves the ground was found untouched virgin soil, which is in agreement with the results of the recent Ground Penetration Radar tests done by Krege.

The Polish also searched in the vicinity for massgraves. They did find 41 grave sites close to Treblinka I (a working camp), each one 2m x 1m x 1m (6ft x 3ft x3ft), which indicates that these were individual graves for one body. Strangely 40 of these grave were desecrated.

Because there is no evidence for the mass graves of 700,000 to 3 Million dead Jews the authors of the book come to the conclusion that the Treblinka camp could not have been an extermination camp but rather functioned as a transfer camp.

And I agree with them: With no mass graves in the camp the Jews must have left Treblinka and were taken somewhere else.

Mattogno/Graf then described in two chapters what happened to these Jews: The Transportation of Jews to the Eastern Territories and the Transfer Camp Treblinka.
I will summarize this in a separate thread.

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp?

Postby slob » 8 months 3 weeks ago (Sun Jan 21, 2018 5:34 pm)

Ridiculous figures, they make it up as they go along!!!!!
Image

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby Dermium » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Tue May 01, 2018 8:11 pm)

Sailor wrote:...Because there is no evidence for the mass graves of 700,000 to 3 Million dead Jews the authors of the book come to the conclusion that the Treblinka camp could not have been an extermination camp but rather functioned as a transfer camp.

And I agree with them: With no mass graves in the camp the Jews must have left Treblinka and were taken somewhere else...


Here are archaeologist Caroline Sturdy Coll's "possible grave sites" map annotated:

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1524525336

Here are Caroline Sturdy Coll's "probable burial / cremation pits" map annotated:

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1524529600

Here are Caroline Sturdy Coll's "main features identified during the archaeological survey" map annotated:

https://vnnforum.com/attachment.php?att ... 1524614037


And here are the descriptions of each of the 15 claimed / alleged / insinuated "huge mass graves" of Treblinka II that can be found in the appendix of Caroline Sturdy Coll's thesis (starting on page 472):


F1: No description / "additional information" given.

F9: "Similar to F5" (Note: The "additional information" given for F5 is: "Close to marked boundary")

F16: "Pit. Candles and stones on east edge." (Note: Presumably, a photo of this "pit" / "possible grave site" can be seen on page 405 of CSC's thesis.)

G1: "Probable pit" (Note: Page 210 of Caroline Sturdy Coll's thesis includes an alleged electrical image of G1. Also note that G1 is the only alleged "probable pit" shown and the depth of the alleged "probable pit" is shown down to only 3.31 meters.)

G4: "Probable pit. May extend beyond the survey area."

G29: "Probable structure. Extends into Area D and possibly SW outside the survey area."

G32: "Probable pit"

G36: "Probable structure"

G38: "Probable pit. Cut visible in section from 0.8 - 3.60m. Possibly extends beyond the survey area to the east, west and south."

G44: "Probable pit. Probably extends under the monument. On NNW- SSE alignment. Possibly same feature as G16 and G17."

G50: "Probable pit. Possibly extends under the monument to the north and east. Apparent cut visible at 1m-full depth of survey. Sloped edge visible to west in section."

G51: "Probable pit. Aligned NE-SW."

G52: No description / "additional information" given.

G53: "Aligned N-S."

G54: "Probable pit. Aligned NE-SW."


FYI #1- Caroline Sturdy Coll's thesis:

Holocaust archaeology: archaeological approaches to landscapes of Nazi genocide and persecution

Sturdy Colls, Caroline (2012)

Ph.D. thesis, University of Birmingham.

http://etheses.bham.ac.uk/3531/


FYI #2 - The N.A.F.H. "Huge Mass Grave" numbering system for Treblinka II:

https://vnnforum.com/showpost.php?p=223 ... count=2814

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby borjastick » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed May 02, 2018 1:37 am)

Dermium, there has been plenty said about the Sturdy-Colls documentary in various threads here on this site, they are well worth a read through. As would be watching the television documentary by her good self and the alternative documentary produced by Eric Hunt.

The claimed burial pits are unrealistic don't you think? The claim is that the mass grave was cleared out of 700,000 rotting corpses, a choice and perhaps impossible job to begin with, which were then cremated on railway sleepers (ties). That would suggest a straight edged location to be efficient. Why would these many tons of human ashes be transferred into odd shaped and irregular pits elsewhere? Surely they would either be left under the railway sleepers or moved to a freshly dug, by mechanical digger, square side pit. Then if that's where these mass remains are buried why weren't they shown right at the beginning of the Treblinka claims? In the late forties before the holocaust story was refined and developed and before the so called religious jews (an oxymoron) claimed that jews cannot be moved after burial.

As one person said here if a grave area was defined then one could dig down alongside it so as to show the content and size. This wasn't done.

Treblinka was quite clearly not a death camp apart from anything else we have statements from many jews who passed through the place!!! Treblinka was an overspill transit camp built to alleviate the pressure on Malkinia Junction station just ten minutes up the line which couldn't cope with the volume of trains and jews being processed through en route to a new life in Russia.

On my forthcoming visit to Treblinka I will attempt to look at all these aspects and others too.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby Dermium » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Wed May 02, 2018 3:55 pm)

It's interesting to look at the descriptions of Caroline Sturdy Coll's "probable pits / possible grave sites."

I especially like G29, as it is not shown as a "possible grave site" in Coll's first map, and is shown as "probable structural remains" in the third, as well as being described as:

"G29: "Probable structure. Extends into Area D and possibly SW outside the survey area."

in her thesis index. But in map #2 it magically becomes a "probable burial / cremation pit."

No wonder her sophomoric thesis was hidden from sight for 5 years.


Image



Image



Image


F1: No description / "additional information" given.

F9: "Similar to F5" (Note: The "additional information" given for F5 is: "Close to marked boundary")

F16: "Pit. Candles and stones on east edge." (Note: Presumably, a photo of this "pit" / "possible grave site" can be seen on page 405 of CSC's thesis.)

G1: "Probable pit" (Note: Page 210 of Caroline Sturdy Coll's thesis includes an alleged electrical image of G1. Also note that G1 is the only alleged "probable pit" shown and the depth of the alleged "probable pit" is shown down to only 3.31 meters.)

G4: "Probable pit. May extend beyond the survey area."

G29: "Probable structure. Extends into Area D and possibly SW outside the survey area."

G32: "Probable pit"

G36: "Probable structure"

G38: "Probable pit. Cut visible in section from 0.8 - 3.60m. Possibly extends beyond the survey area to the east, west and south."

G44: "Probable pit. Probably extends under the monument. On NNW- SSE alignment. Possibly same feature as G16 and G17."

G50: "Probable pit. Possibly extends under the monument to the north and east. Apparent cut visible at 1m-full depth of survey. Sloped edge visible to west in section."

G51: "Probable pit. Aligned NE-SW."

G52: No description / "additional information" given.

G53: "Aligned N-S."

G54: "Probable pit. Aligned NE-SW."

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby borjastick » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu May 03, 2018 2:03 am)

Treblinka, according to the holocaust management committee, is a definite death camp, where 800,000 or so jews were sent to certain death in gas chambers (insert number of here) which were fueled by a diesel tank/submarine engine etc etc.

They were killed within minutes of arrival, no one sent there left alive, except loads did. They were then buried in a large pit, then some months later dug up and burned so that no remains at all whatsoever exist then the camps was totally destroyed so nothing remained. All the above is absolutely definitely cast iron truth.

Odd that given all that truth floating about coupled with masses of definite certainty the most used word in Sturdy-Colls paper is PROBABLE.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby Hannover » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu May 03, 2018 10:01 am)

borjastick:
They were killed within minutes of arrival, no one sent there left alive, except loads did. They were then buried in a large pit, then some months later dug up and burned so that no remains at all whatsoever exist then the camps was totally destroyed so nothing remained. All the above is absolutely definitely cast iron truth.

It would be impossible to remove the remains of 800,000-900,000 Jews. Imagine the process.
There would also be enormous holes in the ground that could never be filled in without being very detectable: soil density, moisture signature visible on infra-red, on & on.

And if they claim that all remains were removed, then why did a charlatan like Sturdy-Colls go looking for human remains? :lol:

Why do Jews claim that the remains still exist? :lol:

Why do they claim that the Soviets went looking for human remains? :lol:

Why have physical impediments at Treblinka, which allegedly cover the alleged massive remains, been built to obstruct any excavations, :lol:
ex.:
Image

They truly can't keep their lies straight.

see more here
'Sites Where Excavations Are Physically Obstructed, Blocked'
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9171

Remember, we're talking about an alleged '6M Jews & 5M others' ... 11,000,000.
There is not a single verifiable excavated enormous mass grave anywhere with contents actually SHOWN, not just claimed, (recall the claim of 900,000 buried at Treblinka, 1,250,000 at Auschwitz, or 250,000 at Sobibor, 34,000 at Babi Yar, 2,000,000 Jews supposedly shot into huge pits by the Einsatzgruppen) even though Jews claim they ALL still exist and claim to know exactly where these alleged enormous mass graves are.

Only liars demand censorship.

- Hannover

The "Holocau$t Industry" in court:
'Please your honor, there really are remains of millions buried in huge mass graves, we know where the mass graves are, ... but, but, well, umm, we can't show the court the human remains. You must trust us, we're Zionists.'
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby Marley775 » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu May 03, 2018 10:45 am)

"And if they claim that all remains were removed, then why did a charlatan like Sturdy-Colls go looking for human remains?"

Even if all of this was technically possible, imagine the millions of teeth remains that could be found knowing a human being has 32.

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Re: Treblinka - Extermination Camp? / no human remains as claimed

Postby Hannover » 5 months 2 weeks ago (Thu May 03, 2018 2:37 pm)

The Los Angeles Coliseum holds ca 90,000. But, according to Jews, ca. 900,000 Jews were allegedly murdered & buried at Treblinka, which would necessarily have left unimaginable amounts of human remains, massive, easily found soil disturbances, etc., etc.
That impossible claim equals 10 times the Los Angeles Coliseum capacity shown here:

Image

The alleged remains do not exist, never have existed or we would have seen them, we would be seeing them to this day 24/7.

The 'holocaust' storyline is one of the dumbest, most easily debunked narratives ever contrived. That is why those who question it are arrested and persecuted. That is why violent, racist, & privileged Jew supremacists demand censorship. What sort of truth is it that denies free speech and the freedom to seek the truth? Truth needs no protection from scrutiny.

Only liars demand censorship.

- Hannover

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd impossibility of the laughable 'holocaust' storyline is the message.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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