Zundel's wife, Dr. Rimland, asked to testify in Germany

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Zundel's wife, Dr. Rimland, asked to testify in Germany

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:53 am)

Dr. Ingrid Rimland is the wife of Ernst Zundel, an imprisoned Thought Criminal being held in Germany. She owns and maintains www.zundelsite.org

The big question is, would Dr. Rimland be arrested in Germany if she testifies in German court?

- Hannover

Certified translation from German into English language

Landgericht Mannheim
[Mannheim Regional Court]

Case Number: 6 KLs 503 Js 4/96

Criminal proceedings against Ernst Zundel
on suspicion of incitement to hatred and violence against segments of the population [Volksverhetzung] and other [penal provisions]

Dear Dr. Rimland:

The Mannheim Regional Court is considering examining you as a witness in the criminal proceedings against your husband, Ernst Zundel. The primary facts in issue are the setup and ongoing operation of the Internet site "Zundelsite.org." As an American citizen, you are certainly not obligated to appear following a summons from a German court in Germany. Moreover, no coercive measures may be imposed upon you. The court may, however, attempt to achieve your summons or your examination through officials in the USA by means of judicial assistance.

I should like to inform you in advance, however, that pursuant to § 1 No 2 of the German Code of Criminal Procedure [Strafprozeßordnung (StPO)], as the wife of the accused you have the right to refuse to testify anyway. In other words, even if you were examined by American officials by means of judicial assistance, you would not need to give any testimony in the matter. Pursuant to § 55 Para. 1 StPO, you also have the right to refuse to respond to such questions if answering them would place either yourself, a family member, or your husband in danger of prosecution for a criminal act. Based upon suspicion of your joint responsibility for the "Zundelsite.org" Web site, the Mannheim Public Prosecutor's Office is also currently conducting investigative proceedings against you on suspicion of incitement to hatred and violence against segments of the population, according to a notice from the Mannheim Public Prosecutor's Office. Given the current state of affairs, it is hard to conceive of questions to which a response would not place you or your husband in danger of criminal prosecution (primarily on suspicion of incitement to hatred and violence against segments of the population pursuant to § 130 of the German penal code [Strafgesetzbuch (StGB)]. You would therefore be fully entitled to refuse to give testimony pursuant to § 55 StPO.

In the present criminal proceedings against your husband, therefore, you could be examined in the matter only if you are prepared to give testimony. The court therefore requests that you notify it as to whether you are prepared to give testimony as a witness in the present criminal proceedings against your husband, or whether you are invoking your right as a witness to avoid self-incrimination pursuant to § 52 StPO or your right to refuse to divulge information pursuant to § 55 StPO. In this case, all further attempts to obtain testimony from you would be pointless.

If you are prepared to testify, however, then an examination in the main proceedings before the Mannheim Regional Court at a date to be determined would be the first option. The court would insure your safe conduct for this purpose, i.e. you would not be in danger of being arrested or otherwise bothered in relation to the aforementioned investigative proceedings by the Mannheim Public Prosecutor's Office. The expenses of your travel and accommodation would be reimbursed.

If you are not prepared to appear for examination in person before the Mannheim Regional Court, examination via a videoconference link would also be possible. You would then travel to an as yet undetermined location in the USA, such as a German consulate in your vicinity, and the sound and image of your testimony would be transmitted to the courtroom. If you are not prepared to do this, then there is the final option of having a consular official conduct your examination on commission. Your personal testimony in Mannheim or examination via videoconference link would be preferable, however, because the participants in the proceedings, including your husband, would then have the opportunity to address questions directly to you.

In conclusion, I therefore request your response to the following questions:

1. Are you prepared to give testimony in the criminal proceedings against your husband before the Mannheim Regional Court on suspicion of incitement to hatred and violence against segments of the population [Volksverhetzung] and other penal provisions, or do you refuse to give testimony based upon the aforementioned rights und § 52 and § 55 StPO ?

2. If you are prepared to give testimony,

a. are you prepared to appear as a witness (with a guarantee of safe conduct) before the Mannheim Regional Court at a date to be determined, and to give testimony as a witness in the matter?
b. Are you otherwise prepared to participate in an examination via videoconference link and to give testimony as a witness in the matter?
c. Are you otherwise prepared to have a German official in the USA conduct your examination on commission and to give testimony as a witness in the matter?

I would like to point out that you are not obligated to answer these questions. In the interest of expeditious handling of the present criminal proceedings against your husband, which would surely also be important for you since your husband is in pretrial detention, the court would be very thankful if you would show your cooperation by answering the questions listed above. Otherwise the court must consider an attempt to approach you through officials in the USA by means of judicial assistance.

Sincerely,

Dr. Meinerzhagen
Presiding Judge of the Landgericht [Regional Court]
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:25 pm)

The benchmark of a civilized society is the quality of its justice.

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:18 pm)

Safe Conduct should be good, however it is only in relation to:
i.e. you would not be in danger of being arrested or otherwise bothered in relation to the aforementioned investigative proceedings by the Mannheim Public Prosecutor's Office.


Thats Zundels case.

They probably have something else up their sleeve.

We all know the Zundelsite is Rimlands, isn't it?

Thats their real bug-bear. The site.

I would not trust them.
There was no holocaust.

Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby polardude » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:21 pm)

They appear to be saying that she would not be arrested in conjunction with her testimony, although in her situation I would be requesting they would be a little more explicit. They also leave open the possibility of video conferencing.

Whether she wishes to testify will probably depend on if she believes her testimony will benefit her husband and/or if she believes that by testifying she will be conferring legitimacy onto the proceedings.

Not an easy situation. In the long run I suspect the sentence will be the same whatever.

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Postby Juan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 20, 2006 2:06 am)

A misterious guy with a funny white mask and daggers is long overdue. :wink:

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Postby Kiwichap » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:20 am)

Jeff Rense reports:
http://www.rense.com/general70/ssf.htm
'Safe Conduct'?
From Ingrid Rimland

Every single response to my tentative announcement that I was considering going to Germany to testify in Ernst's trial as to the ownership of the Zundelsite has been a horrified: FOR HEAVEN'S SAKES, DON'T GO!!!

The best response, I think, came from a supporter who simply wrote on a white sheet of paper: "Come into my parlor," the spider said to the fly ---"

So don't worry - I won't do anything foolish or reckless. Which does not mean this invitation can't be turned around and used to our advantage.

At any rate, especially for those of you who have had legal training, here is the letter I received. Your feedback is sought and invited.


The holo thing is a scam from start to finish, we know it, they know it, hence the lying inquisitors and their imprisonments. Why would we trust them now?
There was no holocaust.



Tit 1:14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:45 am)

Look what happened to Germar Rudolf. The legal basis for his deportation is thin also (if it exists). Germany is ruled by Jews. The German police has to arrest her as soon as she lands in Frankfurt. No doubt.

Mrs. Rimland should not come to Germany. It is hard but she has to be patient and meet her husband in Iran - in less than 5 years.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:05 pm)

They are trying clearly to bait her into declining to testify in Germany and in doing so claiming her rights under the German laws relating to self-incrimination and spousal privilige. Note how they tell her that should she testify almost anything she might say would place her or Ernst in jeopardy. This is an obvious trap of some sort to get her to claim her right not to testify.

Can our German correspondents tell us if such a claim of privilege could be used as evidence of guilt against Ernst or even against Ingrid in the case under investigation for herself? It would not be so in the US legal system but perhaps it might in Germany. Nothing there would surprise me.[/b]

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Apr 21, 2006 12:15 pm)

This is from Dr. Rimland, she gives examples of advice given to her.

- Hannover
Good Morning from the Zundelsite:

Who was it that said, "They have tried me in my absence, they have convicted me in my absence, they might as well shoot me in my absence!"?

Don't laugh. This "safe conduct" offered to me is a serious matter - and it is perceived as such by most of my correspondents. A very small handful of my readers thought I might risk it, but the overall response and verdict was:

DON'T GO TO GERMANY! YOU CANNOT TRUST THESE PEOPLE!

Below are some excerpts of reader comments I received - I should add that about a third of them are attorneys or otherwise knowledgeable about the law:

=====

It is appropriate and indeed necessary for the court to seek your views and somehow hear your statements. However, US, Canadian and German authorities have been almost criminally inattentive to individual liberties in their treatment of your husband. Therefore, it does not follow that this court, protestations of safe conduct given, would live up to that offering. Rather, the risk is that something you might say in testifying could be used as a pretext for detaining you. I believe the perpetrators of this whole legal travesty would be pressing the court for that result, because they could add another revisionist scalp to their string.

If I were in your shoes, I wouldn't trust them.

=====

If Ernst can be prosecuted for things he has said and written, how can the state turn around and invite someone onto its sacred soil - someone who has said and written those same things? If Ernst's message deserves to be treated like an infectious disease, how can the state invite another carrier? Germany has stepped in it so deeply that all its options exist in the absurd.

=====

What a dilemma they are putting you in. On the one hand, you want to help your husband. On the other, anything you say will be twisted to fit the template they want to create, so that you may end up hurting your husband. And they may use your testomony against you yourself in the future. (?) Proceed with extreme caution. I am not a lawyer, but I think I would pass on this one."

=====

You can't believe their "guarantee of safe passage" if they can't explain how they got jurisdiction over your husband in the first place. Only a fool would voluntarily subject themselves to the jurisdiction of a Court that had imprisoned their husband without due process of law no matter what that Court guaranteed or promised. (?) Personally I have no plans to ever go anywhere in the German speaking world.

=====

I would refuse to answer such a ridiculous letter. It is a bona fide trap. Germany has no jurisdcition over you in any regard. If you 'volunteer' for anything requested by German authorities, it could be construed that you have granted jurisdiction.

=====

I do not know about 'consulate' -- the word used in the letter -- but I trust you are aware that embassies are considered sovereign territory of the foreign country. (?) Therefore, you should be chary of stepping into a German (or Austrian or French) high commission -- you could get served with papers that could not properly be served on U. S. territory.

=====

Beware of the spider.

=====

They kidnapped Ernst. Legal and promises mean nothing to them. Judge them by what they do not what they say. They will simply say, "oh yes you were guaranteed those protections as a witness, but now you are being charged as a criminal. Sorry, you are in our jurisdiction and we are holding you over for trial.".

You can imagine what your protests to US Consulate will bring. Zippo.

=====

When you testified in Canada, you made clear that you started the Zundelsite and Ernst has nothing to do with it, then or now. What then do the German authorities want to elicit from you?

It is probable that no matter what you say in any forum, in Germany or in America, the German authorities will claim you perjured yourself and an effort will be made to extradite you to Germany for trial. The rationale would be if you testified truthfully, they would not seek to extradite you.

Since they have concluded that you perjured yourself, no matter what you have said, since you voluntarily gave your testimony, you consented to be tried in a German Court on the charge of perjury.

Far-fetched? Perhaps. German authorities think nothing of holding Ernst Zundel, a pacifist, on a trumped-up charge of incitement to hatred and violence against segments of the population when all he has done is tell the truth.

It should be fairly obvious that the goal of the German authorities is to shut down your Zundelsite and to do that they need you out of America and in their custody.

Don't accommodate them in the least.

=====

As I said before, they want YOU, even more than they want Ernst. They want to shut down the Zundelsite. They want to have the appearance of legality, that is why they didn't arrest you when they arrested Ernst. He is a German citizen and you are not. But now, they are trying ANY WAY THEY CAN to get you under their jurisdiction so they can arrest you too.

You have NOTHING to gain by testifying, and you have EVERYTHING to lose. You may think that this will get publicity for Ernst's case but you KNOW they control the press and won't give it any more publicity than occurred when Ernst was arrested. The major publicity about Ernst's case comes from YOU and YOUR WEBSITE. If you get arrested, then THAT will be gone too.

They already KNOW that the website is yours. You know they have ALL the information from ALL of Ernst's trials and tribunals. They just want to get you in their clutches. Don't let them!

=====

I am an attorney in Maryland, and I would NEVER allow you to appear, or testify, unless you were to testify at his sentencing, by video in the USA, as a character witness and to show him as a good family man. I would not allow you to speak on ANY OTHER ISSUE. Mitigation, only!! Do not open the door, or you may be the next victim of inquisition. The longer that they drag out Ernst's trial, the longer he will be stuck over there.....looks to me like the Germans are getting tired of the Lobby's control of their nation, over this particular trial. (?) Since the several historians' arrest, I have realized how insidious the Lobby's control over international power elite, truly is. They need the holocaust, to justify the existence of "Israel" which is totally unjustifiable, at this point.

=====

1- The entire letter is convoluted. You have no reason to take yourself to Germany. They are lying - because they have no honor left in them. They will go back on their word.

2 - The letter is put in such a way that says, almost as if they will force you to testify. Watch out that they will not give you a SUBPOENA to testify against your own husband.

3 - AND MOST IMPORTANT:

This has been done before and with modern technology is is possible. IF THEY WANT YOUR TESTIMONY SO BADLY - LET THE COURT COME TO YOU.

=====

Please don't go unless you wish to be a martyr and join Ernst in prison, where you may never get out. It's another trap to remove another "holocaust denier" and especially an Ernst Zuendel supporter from society. As his wife and diligent supporter, the court will see you exactly as they see him. Just reexamine how they suckered / trapped Germar Rudolf and David Irving. You have zero protection. It's a kangaroo court over there and anyone who supports Ernst will be sent to prison. The puppet-like government in Germany is heavily influenced/dominated/run by the Zionist and Zionist-sympathizer puppeteers. You will be another victim. Your voice will be stilled until you're out of prison, if you're lucky. You can accomplish far more by continuing being a voice for Ernst over here while you are, for the time being, reasonably safe. Continue Ernst patriotic efforts here!

=====

Ingrid, they are setting you up. DO NOT GO. MAKE A PUBLIC STATEMENT THAT YOU WOULD GO IN A MINUTE IT YOU THOUGHT IT WOULD HELP YOUR HUSBAND, BUT YOU KNOW FULL WELL THAT IT WOULD NOT AND MIGHT EVEN MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT FOR YOU AND THAT THIS INVITATION IS JUST ONE TO ENTRAP YOU.

PLEASE, DO NOT GO.

=====

The downside to not going is that they may attempt to convict your husband based on the "evidence" that you refused to testify, fearing criminal persecution yourself (they would call it "prosecution").

=====

I read the strange request of Dr. Meinerzhagen carefully.

I am of course not familiar with the German laws involved but I see the last sentence of his letter as a clear threat that they are demanding that you respond to the questions they asked or they will seek "judicial assistance" from the US authorities to compel you to appear - presumably in the United States. I am not familiar with this procedure but I a ssume there is some such legal right for them to do this. Do you have US counsel who can advise?

Since they go on to say that even if you were compelled to appear you could refuse to testify as the wife of Ernst or under the German version of the "Fifth Amendment" (the possibility of self-incrimination or incrimination of Ernst), they go on to virtually urge you to claim these as reasons for not wishing to appear. They even go to the extreme of suggesting that should you testify virtually any response to a question asked of you would likely be incriminationg to Ernst or yourself under the charges also being considered against you! Astounding!

I suspect that under the German Star Chamber laws involved here such an action on your part of claiming your rights not to testify could be used against Ernst as evidence of guilt, unlike the US legal situation.

=====

Whatever you do, do NOT follow this invitation. Nor set foot into any German Embassy, after all that is German territory.

=====

There is no "trial," it's a witchhunt, a kangaroo court. In the first place, the German government has no credentials, it is, in fact not the legal government of the German people at all! Second, this so-called "law," the infraction of which forms the basis for the "trial," is illegal since the Charter of the United Nations, to which Germany is a signatory, specifically supports freedom of expression and opinion. History is always a matter of opinion, and this "incitement' charge is totally an illusion of the savage and vindictive Jewish mind.

=====

They know you won't go to Germany coz they know that you know had you also been in the same immigrant status as Ernst they would have had `a pair of birds with the one stone`. (?) Personally, i don't trust anything coming out of what is clearly another zionist vassal stste.

=====

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE - Don't go to Germany or get involved in any way, keep stumm and the head below the firing line. I have a really BAD feeling about this. 50% of their worst nichtmare is already under lock and key - what a bonus if the other 50% walked in voluntarily. There are no dirty tricks low enough that will not be tried to achieve the 100% result. The whole thing stinks to high heaven.

=====

Thank goodness for the Internet. I just read at the rense.com site the letter you recieved from Germany. Goodness gracious. They must think you are stupid. Their evil ways are scary also. Thank you for all that you and your husband are doing.

=====

Don't do it! Real Germans are honorable people and they would keep their promise of safe conduct. But you are not dealing with real Germans, you are dealing with sneaky "Khazars" and they will find a way to detain you in Germany.

====

Please do not go to Germany. You cannot trust those people.

=====

So, why do they want your evidence ? As you are not going to Germany, nothing you say by way of evidence is going to harm you. Clearly it is intended to be to the disadvantage of Ernst. (?) If this sounds illogical, Ingrid, so does the logic of `defaming the memory of the dead`.

=====

For God's sake, don't go!!

=====

No to a trip to Germany. The judge tells you that you are already under investigation and that you jointly operate the Zundelsite. The fact that Ernst is not in a position to aid you in publishing the current Zundelsite is irelevant to the judge. (?) There are probably another million Americans who have violated and continue to violate their stupid law. I will fly out to accompany you to that meeting and state that the Holocaust is a filthy racket if it will help.

=====

I do not trust ANY U. S. Government official. They, along with Canada, broke all of their own rules to get Mr. Zundel to the kangaroo court in Germany, and any "safety guarantee" they offer, written or otherwise, will be conveniently ignored at their pleasure.

=====

The track reacord for honesty and fairplay is atrocious, by the people you will be dealing with. (?) These people are becoming desperate and will do anything to gain their goals......YOU would be quite a trophy to put on display.

Another point: "They" know damned well that you own the "Zundelsite" website!! They use the lie that it belongs to Ernst to draw you out (?) DO NOT put yourself on their turf where you can be put at your enemy's mercy when you can remain on your own turf.

=====

My God, Irimland, you can't trust those people and you cannot trust the American Gov. They never said you would have safe conduct to coming back to the States. I pray that you will not leave American shores.

=====

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES ATTEND AT ANY GERMAN CONSULATE OR SIMILAR FACILITY. They are consider German soil, and you would be arrested as soon as you entered! The letter from Mannheim basically states this!!

=====

I read this "invitation" to have a two-fold purpose. One, to request your voluntary testimony as it relates to your husband's case and two, to place you on notice that you too are under investigation, as a separate case.

While your testimony may not be used against your husband and perhaps also not against you, what prevents the German authorities from arresting you and securing an indictment, based on information they had obtained (against you) from other sources? Is it not a fact, that you have stated in the past that "zundelsite.org" does not belong to your husband? Yet ownership of this site (and content) is being attributed to your husband. Why can't the same claim be made against you? (?) Guilt or innocence is established by trial, but in the meantime you and your husband are both incarcerated. You have already seen how the German legal system works,what makes you think you are entitled to any better treatment? (?) Give them nothing they don't already know.

=====

I received your Zgram yesterday evening. As always, I was so eager to hear about the latest news regarding Mr. Z and yourself. Upon reading that the German government wants you to appear in court, I was numb with fear for your safety! (?) Is it not clear that the Zundelsite is yours? After all, while your husband has been in jail for the past many tears, the Zundelsite and Zgrams continue.

Also, the German government has shown to the world that they are a Stalinist Dictatorship when it comes to Jewish questions and that they have actively sought the arrest and extradition of German nationals simply for their views! You are American. It does not matter! Look at Mr. Irving, a Brit, who is being held in Austria. They will find a way to detain you. (?) The "Court" has shown itself to be a sinister body with no regard for Freedoms and Rights. It would be like believing a lion when he tells his prey that he wants to be friends and that he would not have any intention of eating it.

Furthermore, do you recall Mr. Grossman's comment to a reporter regarding your husband being viewed as a martyr? He said :"You can't be a martyr if nobody knows about you!" Was he instructing the media not to report on the trial? If nobody knows about Mr. Z then why is he so dangerous to Canada and to other countries? It is clear by his comment that Mr. Z will be buried on their orders and you would be the next target. After all, the Truth is still being published and they cannot stop it......unless they imprison every last martyr capable of and courageous enough to speak the Truth! Please do not go to Germany!

=====

Under NO CIRCUMSTANCES should you go to Germany. (?) They've already tried to sabotage the zundelsite; they'd like nothing better than to capture you and imprison you, too (and our government would do nothing to protect your rights).

=====

this advice from an old attorney and retired judge. Take it for what it's worth. :-(

My legal opinion is an emphatic NO. She will not be given the opportunity to express her views. SHE WILL ONLY BE PERMITTED TO GIVE TESTIMONY THAT WILL CERTAINLY CONVICT HER HUSBAND.

Also, safe conduct in this case is not a promise that she will not be charged and arrested for her own actions against the German Code. The judge's letter is very plain. The only thing she has to gain is perhaps seeing EZ. All else will hurt his case and probably her.

=====

Do NOT go there! Only the Mannheim prosecutor has promised safe conduct. Not other arms of the German govt or regions of Germany in which you might find yourself. Nor other Euro countries that might be inclined to prosecute or to cooperate with a warrant issued by Germany or Israel, for that matter.

=====

If Ernst is being prosecuted for the website, and you're the actual operator... And you're an ethnic German... As I recall, Ernst was keelhauled by local cops, in the sardonic words of Judge Mainzerhagen, "through officials in the USA by means of judicial assistance." He says that he can't force you to come to Germany, but the Americans could.

To go into a German tribunal in which lawyers are dismissed or prosecuted for defending their clients, and you not a natural-born American, would literally be suicide. What help could you expect from the US embassy? None. You would probably have your US passport taken away. This much is pretty obvious. (?)

Wasn't John Demjanjuk a naturalized citizen? (?)

Anyway, the judge has put you on notice that you can be picked up anytime. And always remember Operation Keelhaul and the value of American promises.

=====

There is absolutely NO NEED NOR REASON for you to answer ANY question to these swindlers and twisters of justice, NOR is there a need to travel to Germany. This entire episode appears to me like a REAL TRAP.

=====

Be aware that Germany has a law on the books for the arrest of anyone who is under suspicion of having committed an offence against Par 130 by use of the internet. This law was upheld by the German Supreme Court in Karlsruhe a few years ago. The fact that you are a US citizen will not give you immunity from prosecution once you set foot on German soil. (?)

As we can see there is a big round up taking place of leading revisionists. Next in line will be the small fish. I will no longer travel to Germany on business or for personal reasons. The epicenter for this persecution is Mannheim.

=====

Please do not go. It is obvious that the court has no concept of fair play or truth. Once there, they can accuse you of any new trumped up charge, and hold you, then using you as a lever against Ernst and vice versa.

=====

DO NOT CO-OPERATE IN ANY WAY!!!

=====

The maneuvering they do over there to back you into a corner is an abomination.

Your status with so many of us is of utmost importance, and without you, so much information would be lost to us. Obviously you are a thorn in their side and they won't be happy till you are obliterated. Sometimes I think of the treachery of the Nuremburg Trials where the guilty verdict was understood from the beginning such that the trials were a complete, asinine mockery of justice.

=====

Don't trust them!!! Don't Go!!!
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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