Why They Could Not Have Hosed Down The Gas Chambers

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PLAYWRIGHT
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Why They Could Not Have Hosed Down The Gas Chambers

Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 17, 2006 5:34 pm)

Watching the rain come down, it hit me...they could not have washed down the walls of the Auschwitz gas chambers after a gassing.

Germar Rudolph, the Jan Sehn Institute Report, the Leuchter Report, and Rudolph's nemesis, Dr. Richard Green, have all postulated the scenario that after a gassing, the walls were washed down with water. Green in particular has insisted that this means that the blue stains of ferrocyanite, the unmistakable indicator of cyanide use in a building, could not form.

For some time, I've pondered how they could wash down the walls BEFORE the bodies were removed, which means that there would be plenty of time for the blue stains to form...but then I realized, they could not have washed down the walls at all. Especially in Krema's II and III, which are in basements under the water table.

For after washing down the walls, there's no place for the water - or more correctly, dilute hydrocyanic acid - to go.

There is no drain in the gas chambers of any of the Krema's.

No sewer either.

Krema's II and III, being below the water table, could not have a sewer anyway, it would flood. AND, even if they could, you can't have a sewer in a gas chamber.

So, after a gassing, and whether there are still bodies present or not, it doesn't matter - our intrepid Sonderkommando begins spraying the walls and ceilings.

The leftover hydrogen cyanide, dissolved in water in the cracks and crannies of the plaster, is diluted in the stream from the hose, and dribbles down onto the floor. If bodies are present, the HCN on their bodies will also dribble onto the floor. The HCN that is IN their bodies will begin to evaporate out, and if the water continues, this too will be dissolved and end up on the floor.

A floor specially designed, and sealed to be waterproof.

When water mixes with hydrogen cyanide, it becomes hydrocyanic acid. On the floor of the Krema, a small lake begins to develop. A lake of hydrocyanic acid.

Dilute acid, and as they add more water, it becomes even more dilute. But all the same, hydrocyanic acid. So after they stop spraying the walls, what's left is a stagnant lake of dilute hydrocyanic acid, sloshing around on the floor of the Krema, with no place to go.

If you step in it with anything other than thick rubber boots, you'll be poisoned. As you walk out of the gas chamber, your wet boots track hydrocyanic acid everywhere, and when that dries, it releases hydrogen cyanide gas.

As the temperature of the water and the gas chamber changes, OR as the air pressure changes from people entering or leaving, or as doors, even far away, are opened and closed, or even from the elevator taking the bodies up to the furnaces, the HCN in the water will be released as gas or be re-dissolved into the water in a complex back and forth pattern.

Although the HCN is very dilute, the sum amount that was in the chamber before hosing is still there - water does not destroy HCN - and when released as gas, it will poison you.

And there's no way to get rid of it.

There is no drain. No sewer.

In basements below the water table, like the farmhouse I grew up in, there is something called a sump pump, but the Krema's don't have any. The pumps would have been exposed to damage from the victims, and you can't pump a poisonous liquid through it, it will contaminate all the parts.

And - for a sump pump to work, there has to be a sump, a small well in the floor where all liquids go. The gas chambers have no sump. And even if they did, where would they pump it? Up onto the lawn? Where it would poison more people? Into another room, where there is a drain? Spreading the poison from room to room? They can't bail it with buckets. They can't mop it up.

The doors to the gas chambers, if I remember correctly, have no sill. So the poisonous water begins spreading into the rest of the building.

And, that lake of hydrocyanic acid is now working on the bricks of the floor, and lapping up against the plaster walls. Plenty of time now for blue stains to develop.

And - have you ever heard or read of an account from any of the usually talkative "eyewitnesses" on what they did do with the water?

Finally - considering that the Krema's were supposedly put to use immediately after they were finished - can you spray water on new plaster? There is no question that the Krema's were plastered, and that the plaster was new. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but spraying water on plaster that's only a few weeks old - will that or will that not begin dissolving it? Or at least soften it, to the point where panicking victims can punch holes in it?

But whether it dissolves, or not, what do you do with that lake in the middle of the Krema floor? A lake of diluted hydrocyanic acid, mixed with body fluids, excrement, and who knows what else?

How do you get rid of it?

If there's a way they could have sprayed down the Krema walls AND removed the resulting lake, do tell me about it, because having posed this problem, I can't figure a way to solve it.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 17, 2006 8:56 pm)

I think it's best kept simple - where could the water have gone? That's a great observation. If the entire length of the room was hosed then that is a lot of water making it's way to the floor.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 17, 2006 10:00 pm)

- Imagine, supposedly 2000 Jews at a time crammed into an alleged converted morgue and gassed, using the cyanide carrying insecticide Zyklon-B.

- Then imagine trying to wash down the walls and ceiling quickly before the cyanide penetrated.

- But there is no way to reach the walls and ceiling without removing the alleged 2000 bodies first, via a tiny elevator up to the crematorium.

- All this while deadly cyanide gas is rushing out the now open door, since the Zyklon-B would still be releasing it's cyanide load, which it will ... for hours. The alleged gassing times were supposedly mere minutes. If the liars try to say that the Zyklon-B was pulled out of the alleged gas chambers after death was accomplished, they must then explain what was done with the still outgassing Zyklon-B, which they cannot.

- Yet the alleged next batch of 2000 more Jews are supposedly waiting in line to enter the alleged gas chamber, which is now releasing gas, exposing them and the entire camp to cyanide. Now remember, the 2000 Jews allegedly waiting were supposed to be unaware of danger, thinking they were just being taken to get showers.

The stupid lies these people come up in an attempt to cover an obvious fraud is amazing.

For further spanking of this shyster, 'Dr. Green', see:
http://germarrudolf.com/work/trr/8.html#8.4.4.

from the Rudolf Report:
http://germarrudolf.com/work/trr/

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 17, 2006 10:01 pm)

Between every second pair of vertical columns on the centerline of morgue 1 is a floor drain installed. Please look at the floor plan.
Krema II

The floor is sloped towards the drain holes.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed May 17, 2006 10:04 pm)

Right Bergmann, I thought as much. That does create a problem as to where the alleged cyanide/water mixture would drain to. 'Hey guys, let's poison the groundwater'.

Anyway, it doesn't change a thing in terms of the absurd nature of the claims. See my previous post.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 5:15 am)

Bergmann wrote:Between every second pair of vertical columns on the centerline of morgue 1 is a floor drain installed. Please look at the floor plan. The floor is sloped towards the drain holes.


Yeah, I was wrong. There was also a big sewer by the west wall in the gas chambers in Krema's III and IV.

From Pressac's description.

"The drainage system of Krematorium III was simplified as compared with that of Krematorium II. For example, the Kr II gas chamber [Leichenkeller 1] sewer manhole was brick built with an internal iron ladder, whereas in Kr III it was simply a few sections of low cost concrete pipe [Documents 44, 45, 46, 47 and 48]. In the author's opinion, this type of simplification of construction, based on the experience of building Krematorium II, was used wherever possible in Krematorium III, which probably explains its lower overall cost: 554,550 RM for Kr III, as against probably 646,000 RM for Kr II."


Pressac also writes that on drawing 193, the sewer lines of the gas chambers are shown to be isolated from the rest of the building, going off at a right angle to join the main sewer.

He has pictures of the sewer manholes in the gas chambers of Krema's II and III. They're huge, big enough for a man to go down. Actually, they are an escape route, and possibly an air source. Though I suppose at the time of a gassing, they could have them sealed and locked.

Still pondering how they could have washed down the walls and ceiling with a room full of bodies.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 5:54 am)

Photos of the sewage treatment plant just behind Crema II shows the trenches to have had water in them with the surface just three or four feet below ground level. The floor of the Crema cellars would have been about three or four feet below ground level. If there were drainage pipes to sewer trenches the drainage would have been very slow and at times of rain and snow melt the water table would have been higher than the drains in the cellars resulting in back ups.

Not only would the drains have to carry away the poisonous residues there was also all that blood and defacation we are told about.

Holocaust tales tell us they would hose down the bodies in order to make them easier to pry apart. If there are tales about the chambers being hosed down in general while bodies were still inside then they would have been laying over any drains.

Can we picture the sondercommandos sloshing around among the bodies in the blood, defecation and poisonous cyanide residues?

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 7:55 am)

So the biggest problems with the gas story still remain:
How did the Nazis get the gas into the chambers?
How did they get the gas out of the chamber after the gassing without killing all the workers and the people in the camps? Where did the gas go?
How did they cremate the bodies without fuel?
How did they get the 2000 bodies an hour out of the gas chamber?
How did they cremate 2000 bodies an hour with 50 ovens and no fuel?
Where did the dispose of the 50 tons of cremation bones (not dust) every day?
How did they get the Jews to wait in line to be gassed?
Why did the Nazis build the Auschwitz gas chamber so close to the SS quarters?
Why did Eli Wiesel (his first book), Churchill, Stalin, the Pope, The Red Cross, De Gaulle, and Eisenhower not mention gassing in their reports and/or memoirs?
How did so many hundreds of thousands of Jews, including thousands of children, many of whom were born in the camps, survive the death camps?



Answer these questions and you will crush the deniers.
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 8:33 am)

The problem seems to be more complex.

Before the walls can be washed down, the dead bodies would all have to be removed from the morgue and placed somewhere else or finished being cremated, which may take days in the case of a load of 2000 victims.

And before the naked dead bodies can be safely handled by anyone, the cyanide acid clinging to the bodies and the hair has to be chemically neutralized. Just hosing the bodies down with water does not do the trick.
Also the walls of the morgue have to be chemically neutralized before the morgue can be entered safely without a protective suit, gloves and a gas mask.

This was brought to my attention first in the Leuchter Report, which is so despised now by many exterminationists.

The Cracow Institute discovered in 1945/46 cyanide acid clinging to hair, hair clips and the gold frame of a pair of eye glasses, after months when these items were apparently fumigated.
This verifies Leuchter’s statement, as well as Faurisson’s, who both describe the peculiar characteristic of the cyanid acid to adhear and cling to walls and objects.
Cracow actually treated the hair, hair clips and glass frame with sulfuric acid to remove, seperate and analyze the HCN gas. This is described in their report.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 10:47 am)

One more comment:

Hoaxers normally respond, that the SS did not have to follow any safety OSHA rules and that the crematorium workers (they call “sonderkommandos”) were dispensable (THHP, Dr. Green).

The fact is, that there are still former Auschwitz crematorium workers living in Israel even today, there must be about a hundred survivors. If they were poisoned by entering the morgue prematurely they would not have survived this long.
And these workers worked only under the supervision of SS guards, who of course would also be exposed to the danger of HCN poisoning by entering an unsafe morgue.

Dr. Green’s explanation does not hold up very well in my opinion.

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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 11:25 am)

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:Germar Rudolph, the Jan Sehn Institute Report, the Leuchter Report, and Rudolph's nemesis, Dr. Richard Green, have all postulated the scenario that after a gassing, the walls were washed down with water. Green in particular has insisted that this means that the blue stains of ferrocyanite, the unmistakable indicator of cyanide use in a building, could not form.

I don't think that Germar Rudolf has postulated that.
He writes in his book "Grundlagen zur Zeitgeschichte":
Germar Rudolf wrote:Ein weiterer Erklärungsversuch setzt bei den Zeugenaussagen an, die davon berichten, daß die Leichen nach der Vergasung mit einem Wasserschlauch abgespritzt worden wären.[120] Es wäre demnach möglich, daß dabei auch die Wände abgespritzt und somit von der Blausäure gereinigt worden wären. Dazu stellen wir hier fest:

- Bis zur erfolgreichen Lüftung der Kammer vergeht mindestens eine Stunde.
- Nach den Zeugenaussagen dauerte das Ausräumen der Leichen weitere Stunden.
- Damit hätte die Blausäure besonders im hinteren Teil der Kammer viele Stunden lang ungehindert ins Mauerwerk eindiffundieren können.
- Das Abspritzen hätte nur oberflächlich anhaftende Blausäure fortgespült. Für eine Tiefenwirkung wäre ein oxidierender Zusatz nötig gewesen.
- Bei diesem Szenario wäre mit einem Konzentrationsgradient in der Kammer mit von der Tür aus gesehen von vorne nach hinten und vom Boden zur Decke steigendem Cyanidgehalt zu rechnen.
- Der Cyanidgehalt an oder in unmittelbarer Nähe zur Decke im hintersten Winkel der Kammer müßte ungeschmälert sein.

Die letzten beiden Punkte sind aber nachweislich nicht gegeben. Man findet nirgendwo signifikante Cyanidmengen! Außerdem ist zu bedenken, daß durch das zusätzliche Anfeuchten der Kammerwände die Blausäureaufnahme bei nachfolgenden Vergasungen dramatisch erhöht und die Umsetzung zum stabilen Eisenblau stark beschleunigt worden wäre. Es wäre Irrsinn gewesen, in solch nassen, kalten Kellern mit ungekachelten Böden und Wänden Blausäurebegasungen durchzuführen.

Source: http://www.vho.org/D/gzz/12.html

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Postby Blue 88 » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 4:02 pm)

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:I realized, they could not have washed down the walls at all. Especially in Krema's II and III, which are in basements under the water table.

For after washing down the walls, there's no place for the water - or more correctly, dilute hydrocyanic acid - to go.

There is no drain in the gas chambers of any of the Krema's.

No sewer either.

Krema's II and III, being below the water table, could not have a sewer anyway, it would flood. AND, even if they could, you can't have a sewer in a gas chamber. [...]

Although the HCN is very dilute, the sum amount that was in the chamber before hosing is still there - water does not destroy HCN - and when released as gas, it will poison you.

And there's no way to get rid of it.

There is no drain. No sewer.

In basements below the water table, like the farmhouse I grew up in, there is something called a sump pump, but the Krema's don't have any. The pumps would have been exposed to damage from the victims, and you can't pump a poisonous liquid through it, it will contaminate all the parts.

And - for a sump pump to work, there has to be a sump, a small well in the floor where all liquids go. The gas chambers have no sump. And even if they did, where would they pump it? Up onto the lawn? Where it would poison more people? Into another room, where there is a drain? Spreading the poison from room to room? They can't bail it with buckets. They can't mop it up. [...]

How do you get rid of it?

If there's a way they could have sprayed down the Krema walls AND removed the resulting lake, do tell me about it, because having posed this problem, I can't figure a way to solve it.


Although I don't think that hosing down the walls would prevent Prussian Blue stains from forming, and I agree that the corpses being impregnated with HCN would put the chemical in contact with the walls and the floor in variably strong concentrations, I don't think some of the objections here are valid.

For one thing the water table is not at sea level, but much higher, so it is easy to have plumbing below the water table which drains to some point downstream--and could probably be discharged directly into the Vistula with no problems considering the small amount of hazardous waste involved.

If not, then neutralization and wastewaster treatment would be minor compared to the sewage disposal of a camp with tens of thousands of persons accomodated there.

TMoran wrote:Not only would the drains have to carry away the poisonous residues there was also all that blood and defacation we are told about.


HCN is an organic chemical and breaks down readily in the environment and is easily dissolved by and neutralized with sufficient water.

We are not talking here of great amounts like mining waste but mere contaminated tap water discharged into the Vistula or sent to a sewage cistern.

Sewage and biological contamination can be dealt with by simple dilution in similar fashion, which is why raw sewage is typically discharged into streams and only becomes a problem if the population density is too high or dilution is too low in relation to the amounts of offal.

Again, considering the small amounts of contaminants involved here the wastewater treatment necessary for the alleged gaschambers is minor.

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Postby Breker » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 5:51 pm)

Again, considering the small amounts of contaminants involved here the wastewater treatment necessary for the alleged gaschambers is minor.

Not minor at all considering the allegations of constant gassings and huge amounts of Zyklon-B that would be necessary to kill about 2000 people per load in the 5-10 minute time length as is alleged by the always amazing eyewitnesses. I believe Germar Rudolf demonstrated that it would have taken 10 times the amount of Zyklon-B for the claimed gassings of Jews compared to the routine delousing of clothing etc. That's a lot of cyanide.

Brecker

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 7:34 pm)

Blue 88 commented:
Although I don't think that hosing down the walls would prevent Prussian Blue stains from forming, and I agree that the corpses being impregnated with HCN would put the chemical in contact with the walls and the floor in variably strong concentrations, I don't think some of the objections here are valid.

For one thing the water table is not at sea level, but much higher, so it is easy to have plumbing below the water table which drains to some point downstream--and could probably be discharged directly into the Vistula with no problems considering the small amount of hazardous waste involved.


Sea level wouldn't have anything to do with whether or not water can be evacuated from one place to another. Sea level is 'ultimate base level' yet there are many other levels below other levels. Lakes would be one, fed by streams coming from a higher place. 'Down stream' would be another. All you would need to drain water from one place to another is a lower level.

The trenches were fifty feet or so behind Crema II. The Vistula was about a mile. Then too the typical plumbing codes in any particular town are that drain lines have an 1/8th inch drop every four feet. Other wise the stuff wouldn't flow. Eight times four feet equals 32 feet, one inch every 32 feet. One hundred and seventy inches over the distance. That would be well below the level of the river located in the meander plain that Berkenau was. (See aerial photo with ox bow lakes and scars.)


Blue 88 added on:
If not, then neutralization and wastewaster treatment would be minor compared to the sewage disposal of a camp with tens of thousands of persons accomodated there.


TMoran wrote:
Not only would the drains have to carry away the poisonous residues there was also all that blood and defacation we are told about.

HCN is an organic chemical and breaks down readily in the environment and is easily dissolved by and neutralized with sufficient water.

We are not talking here of great amounts like mining waste but mere contaminated tap water discharged into the Vistula or sent to a sewage cistern.

Sewage and biological contamination can be dealt with by simple dilution in similar fashion, which is why raw sewage is typically discharged into streams and only becomes a problem if the population density is too high or dilution is too low in relation to the amounts of offal.

Again, considering the small amounts of contaminants involved here the wastewater treatment necessary for the alleged gaschambers is minor.


Actually I wasn't making any point about poisons being sent on to the water treatment plant and contaminating that. I was commenting on someone else saying that's where the water would have drained to. My comments focused on what would have been happening in the gas chambers.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu May 18, 2006 8:52 pm)

Believers say the tiny amounts of cyanide that killed 2000 were so strong that only little was needed - but that same lethal cyanide is now very weak when they need to drain it into the river.


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