Not an inch! (Finnish concentration camps!)

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Gorgias
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Not an inch! (Finnish concentration camps!)

Postby Gorgias » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu May 29, 2003 9:43 am)

(when writing for the first time on this forum, some explanations are perhaps needed. I have not actully made up my mind concerning this central topic of this discussion. You may call me as well as a "moderate exterminationist" or "moderate revisionist" as Crowell calls himself. But there are some reasons why I symphatize this revisionism, even if I perhaps not agree with all of it's conclusions. One of the reasons is the pursuit of precision. One of the reasons is that the opposite side does not always do that. So here is my story:)

Finland's position as an ally of Nazi Germany in the years 1941-44 is very peculiar. Finland had whole the time a democratic system (not perhaps in the tiny details because of the war.) When Himmler visited Finland, our leaders declared him that "we have no Jewish problem in Finland". Himmler did not ask more.

There was a small incidence when some foreign Jews were deported to Estonia, and most of these people disappeared during the war. The decision maker in this case was not the Finnish government but the leader of our secret police in that time. He was condemded after the war.

The whole story of Finnish Jews is written here: http://www.finemb.org.il/Historia.htm .

Pay attention to the fact that Finnish Jews were fighting againts Soviet Union with all other Finns - and also with the German troops then in Finland. Very many of these Jews were decorated. Wery many also died. They were as Finnish as the rest of us.

So I was surprised to read this on the web site "The Holocaust History Project"

http://www.holocaust-history.org/questi ... land.shtml

You may understand that I was not satisfied with this description. So I sent several emails to this mr. Green to correct it. He answered me but was not willing to correct this small article.

Then I met even more fallacious statement on the web site "The forgotten camps", http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps ... psEng.html

According to this site there were two concentration camps for Jews in Finland!
Imagine that when you know the above mentioned facts.

Similarly I wrote to the web masters of this web site and asked for correction. I received a couple of answers and they promised to check the facts. After a year or so I inquired again why they had not removed this totally false information. No answer.

With these examples I have to admit that I am totally disappointed to these folks. Not an inch is given up. Not the smallest detail.
Last edited by Gorgias on Fri May 30, 2003 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu May 29, 2003 11:25 am)

Thanks for your message.

Gorgias wrote:when writing for the first time on this furum, some explanations are perhaps needed. I have not actully made up my mind concerning this central topic of this discussion. You may call me as well as a "moderate exterminationist" or "moderate revisionist" as Crowell calls himself.

An excellent book on that subject is:

The Fate of Jews in German Hands:
An Historical Enquiry into the Development and Significance of Holocaust Revisionism

by Joel S. A. Hayward
http://www.resistance.com/Hayward/hay1.html

So I was surprised to read this on the web site "The Holocaust History Project"

http://www.holocaust-history.org/questi ... land.shtml

You may understand that I was not satisfied with this description. So I sent several emails to this mr. Green to correct it. He answered me but was not willing to correct this small article.


Green refered to Martin Gilbert's Atlas of the Holocaust, whom he apparently trusted more than the Finnish Tapani Harviainen.

Then I met even more fallacious statement on the web site "The forgotten camps", http://www.jewishgen.org/ForgottenCamps ... psEng.html

According to this site there were two concentration camps for Jews in Finland!
Imagine that when you know the above mentioned facts.


The site mentions two camps in Finland: Kangasjarvi and Koveri. On my atlas I could not find those two towns in Finland at all. Are there actually places with such names?

And if these camps did not exist in Finland, one has to ask the question: What other concentration camps were invented by these people?

:D

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Postby Karl S » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu May 29, 2003 5:25 pm)

Sailor,

No wonder that you didn't find Kangasjarvi. Its spelled Kangasjärvi.

The name Kangasjärvi is a surname in Finnish, name of a lake, and name of a zinc mine.

I don't know where this camp should be situated, by lake or zinc mine? Maybe Gorgias can fill us in?

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Postby Gorgias » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri May 30, 2003 12:51 am)

Karl S wrote:Sailor,

No wonder that you didn't find Kangasjarvi. Its spelled Kangasjärvi.

The name Kangasjärvi is a surname in Finnish, name of a lake, and name of a zinc mine.

I don't know where this camp should be situated, by lake or zinc mine? Maybe Gorgias can fill us in?


I don't know either. The name "Kangasjärvi" is in English "moor lake" and it is a rather common name for lakes. And lakes we have in Finland! I have not found any place called "Koveri".

I have also checked the names of the camps for Soviet POW's but even there I was unable to find these names.

***

Harviainen mentions "work camps". Perhaps a couple of explanatory words are needed here. During the war everybody in Finland had duty to work. These camps were for ordinary Finnish citizens that were not otherways employed and were unfit to war service (eg. because of age). Workers had a salary, right to vacations etc., also these Jewish refugees.

PS. I would like to answer to a Moderator's question, but: "Sorry, but the administrator has prevented you from sending private messages." (?)

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Postby Gorgias » 1 decade 6 years ago (Tue Jun 24, 2003 6:49 am)

This becomes almost funny.

On RODOH Forum, Mr. Hebden now denies, that anybody had claimed that there were Finnish concentration camps for Jews:

"However, according to the site that Mr. Gorgias cites:

www.jewishgen.org/Forgott...psEng.html

the two camps in question are actually specified neither as concentration camps nor for the confinement, exclusively or otherwise, of Jews."

This whole site is dedicated to Holocaust. On it's Home Page are titles "Introduction","The Camps", The Holocaust","The Witnesses" ...

Under the title "The Camps" it reads

"This huge list contains the names of hundreds concentration camps, external "kommando" or auxiliary camps [...]"

and

"This list is far from complete. It is estimated that the Nazis established 15,000 camps in the occupied countries." (Finland was never occupied and the Finnish Nazis were but a powerless minority)

and the webmaster of this abovementioned site at first promised to correct this false information! But did not.


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