What do you make of this post liberation photo of Majdanek?

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polardude
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What do you make of this post liberation photo of Majdanek?

Postby polardude » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jun 17, 2006 1:50 am)

Image

Can anyone give a description of the state of the crematorium as they see it here?

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jun 17, 2006 2:41 am)

Sure are a lot of houses nearby; odd for an alleged 'death camp'. I guess those evil German exhibitionists wanted everyone to witness their 'secret exterminations'.

What is the date and source?

for some background see:
D. Cole: 46 UNANSWERED QUESTIONS REGARDING 'GAS CHAMBERS'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=599
Majdanek is covered quite well beginning with no. 27
UNANSWERED QUESTIONS REGARDING THE PHYSICAL EVIDENCE AT THE MAJDANEK CONCENTRATION CAMP (POLAND)

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Speeder » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jun 17, 2006 8:48 am)

Ok I will have a try

It looks like the crematorium area which by all accounts was burnt down prior to liberation.

Now was the scaffolding there before the fire and miraculously survived the blaze or are the Soviets building something that wasn't there in the first place :?:

As always

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Postby polardude » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jun 19, 2006 12:03 am)

A quick background on this image (there also a few others) in response to interest of where they came from (well, actually there has been no such interest but anyway).

I obtained them from an amateur historian Sergey Romanov in late 2004. I had infiltrated a holocau$t online community using a false identity. Sergey was passing around some of these images from early soviet propaganda archives he had access to. He was openly boasting about how bad some of the early soviet agitprop was and how lazy and incompetent revisionists were for not hunting it down and exposing them. He said, I think he is correct, that in this shot and others not only is it clear that the chimney has just finished being built, but there aren't even any ovens installed yet!!

I wonder if Mr Romanov is feeling so pleased and cocky now?

You might also note that the gas chamber to the right - which today is made entirely of correct - has no roof on it. IE it is four walls with no roof, strange gas chamber.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:14 am)

polardude wrote:A quick background on this image (there also a few others) in response to interest of where they came from (well, actually there has been no such interest but anyway).

I obtained them from an amateur historian Sergey Romanov in late 2004. I had infiltrated a holocau$t online community using a false identity. Sergey was passing around some of these images from early soviet propaganda archives he had access to. He was openly boasting about how bad some of the early soviet agitprop was and how lazy and incompetent revisionists were for not hunting it down and exposing them. He said, I think he is correct, that in this shot and others not only is it clear that the chimney has just finished being built, but there aren't even any ovens installed yet!!

I wonder if Mr Romanov is feeling so pleased and cocky now?

You might also note that the gas chamber to the right - which today is made entirely of correct - has no roof on it. IE it is four walls with no roof, strange gas chamber.


Very interesting indeed - and interesting that amateur Romanov got his hands on this kind of stuff. I think we need more revisionists living in Russia and/or with a knowledge of the Russian language and Soviet archives. There seems to be a lot of Soviet propaganda reels gathering dust in archives. If you got any more of this stuff, please put it up and comment in in new threads.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jun 19, 2006 9:18 am)

Hannover wrote:Sure are a lot of houses nearby


Yes, as can also be seen in several air photos, Majdanek was located not isolated in the countryside, but in the Lublin suburb of Majdan Tatarski. Actually, as can be seen on this photo, the part of the camp containing the alleged gas chambers was situated quite close to urban surroundings inhabited by civilians...

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Mon Jun 19, 2006 10:48 am)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:
polardude wrote:A quick background on this image (there also a few others) in response to interest of where they came from (well, actually there has been no such interest but anyway).

I obtained them from an amateur historian Sergey Romanov in late 2004. I had infiltrated a holocau$t online community using a false identity. Sergey was passing around some of these images from early soviet propaganda archives he had access to. He was openly boasting about how bad some of the early soviet agitprop was and how lazy and incompetent revisionists were for not hunting it down and exposing them. He said, I think he is correct, that in this shot and others not only is it clear that the chimney has just finished being built, but there aren't even any ovens installed yet!!

I wonder if Mr Romanov is feeling so pleased and cocky now?

You might also note that the gas chamber to the right - which today is made entirely of correct - has no roof on it. IE it is four walls with no roof, strange gas chamber.


Very interesting indeed - and interesting that amateur Romanov got his hands on this kind of stuff. I think we need more revisionists living in Russia and/or with a knowledge of the Russian language and Soviet archives. There seems to be a lot of Soviet propaganda reels gathering dust in archives. If you got any more of this stuff, please put it up and comment in in new threads.


I agree. It sounds like polardude might have more info to share.

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Postby polardude » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:27 am)

A quick update on the of the Majdanek crematorium fraud.

The claim that the ovens had not yet been built proved to be pre-mature. I have been provided with another photo from the same source that shows them conclusively

Image



The yellow oval marks one side of the row of ovens. The blue oval marks a chimney that was prescent in whatever structure procedure the crematorium but which today lies outside the "reconstructed" crematorium. It is a similar to the chimney/fireplaces found in standard barracks for heating.

The purple arrow depicts the roofless walls which today is marked as "gas chamber" (not to be confused with the other 3 gas chambers found in the bad and disinfektion block). Today it is conceded soto voce that no gassings took place here. However today it is also complete with a concrete roof and concrete zyklon entry chute. These can now be demonstrated to be non-original and quite simply historical fraud.


The other question is was the whole complex constructed by the Russians is not so clear cut. The scaffolding up the chimney is undeniable.

And looking at this photo

Image

The loose bricks on the top of the ovens and the area which has not yet been finished in the wall of the ovens suggest it is of recent manufacture.

PS. I would just like to repeat my thanks to Mr Romanov both for providing the original images and for broadcasting the existence of these images so widely.[/code]

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Postby polardude » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jun 29, 2006 2:37 am)

The final word that would determine if Majdanek had such a crematorium would come from aerial photos.

I have only available a fairly poor web jpg downloaded either from John Ball's site or USHMM. I am certain that if one went to the original negative a much better resolution could be obtained.

Such a large chimney as shown in the above photos should stick out like a sore thumb.

Using the low resolution version I have available I have blown up the region and circled the "crematorium" area in yellow. There is definitely a building there but it is a different shape from the reconstructed crematorium and, crucially the large chimney is absent.

Image

This is a strong indication that the scaffolding up the chimney post liberation has no innocent explanation.

I wonder if John Ball or associates could be prevailed upon to see if they could get a better resolution aerial photo on the web or to check their prints to see if my interpretation is correct?

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Postby polardude » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jun 29, 2006 4:46 am)

The only other thing I would add is I tried to post some of these pictures over at Scott Smith's "Free Speech" forum.

Sadly free speech has its limitations and they were immediately removed from the Holocaust discussion section (ie the pictures of the scaffolding on the Krema chimney)

I find it very interesting when such reactions are provoked and think it reveals a very high degree of sensitivity.

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Postby Richard Perle » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jun 29, 2006 1:07 pm)

The purple arrow depicts the roofless walls which today is marked as "gas chamber" (not to be confused with the other 3 gas chambers found in the bad and disinfektion block). Today it is conceded soto voce that no gassings took place here. However today it is also complete with a concrete roof and concrete zyklon entry chute. These can now be demonstrated to be non-original and quite simply historical fraud.


Let me be clear, are the gas chambers there in the photo near the krema now said to be of the non-murderous variety? The ones closest to the body disposal facilities?

Why would the building have no roof at that time?

Oh, and that's disturbing about Scott's forum. Was any explanation offered? This should be looked into as these are the type of tactics they claim go on here.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jun 29, 2006 9:53 pm)

Richard Perle wrote:
The purple arrow depicts the roofless walls which today is marked as "gas chamber" (not to be confused with the other 3 gas chambers found in the bad and disinfektion block). Today it is conceded soto voce that no gassings took place here. However today it is also complete with a concrete roof and concrete zyklon entry chute. These can now be demonstrated to be non-original and quite simply historical fraud.


Let me be clear, are the gas chambers there in the photo near the krema now said to be of the non-murderous variety? The ones closest to the body disposal facilities?


The alleged single gas chamber located in the "New Crematorium" was designated as Gas Chamber VII by the Polish-Soviet Commission. The allegations of homicidal use of this rooms seems to have been more or less discarded for quite a while. Graf and Mattogno quotes Pressac in their study on Majdanek:

"The seventh alleged execution gas chamber is located in the new crematorium, in which a massive complex of five Kori single-muffle furnaces is installed which could cremate approximately 300 (or 1,000, according to official sources) bodies per day in a 24-hour operation.[[417]] The acting Director of the [Majdanek] Museum has informed this author that this gas chamber saw only little-really very, very little-use, which means, plainly speaking, that it was not used at all. This fiction is maintained in order to preserve the popular belief that a crematorium must necessarily have included a gas chamber (as for example the crematoria of Auschwitz-Birkenau).

Aside from this verbal information, the existence of a gas chamber is not alleged in any description of the interior features of the new crematorium, and with good reason, for the German plan of the building labels the room in question as a mortuary.

If anyone had wanted to kill human beings with Zyklon B in this locale, its enclave-like location inside the building-between the autopsy room, a corridor and the funeral parlor-would perforce have required an artificial ventilation system, of which, however, there is not a trace to be found. If one assumes natural ventilation by means of cross-draft, the entire crematorium would have to have been completely evacuated for a period whose duration is difficult to estimate."


http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/ccm/7.html

In connection to the lowering of the Majdanek victim figures last year, I wrote an e-mail to Tomas Kranz of the Majdanek State Museum regarding the gas chambers. According to Kransz, homicidal gassings only took places in chambers I and III.

Mattogno & Graf notes in the same chapter regarding chamber VII:

The Polish-Soviet Commission did not see fit to mention the opening (26 × 26 cm) cut through the ceiling, whereas it certainly did consider those in Chambers I, II, IV, V and VI worthy of note. The opening in the room in question was added after the fact, in an extremely crude manner; the person/s making this alteration could not even be bothered to trim back the iron bars in the reinforced-concrete ceiling and to install a wooden chimney with a lid,[419] such as in Chamber IV. Since the ceiling is 2.2 m above the floor, this would have resulted in the same problems during a homicidal gassing as Pressac indicates for Chamber III.


It wouldn't surprise if there's still panels up at the camp claiming this room (more specifically, mortuary) to have been a homicidal gas chamber. Unfortuneatly I havent yet had the opportunity to visit the camp in question.

Photos of "chamber VII"?

Image
Image


Soviet photos of the ruins of the New Crematorium taken in August 1945:

Image

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Postby polardude » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 30, 2006 2:47 am)

Richard,
The images were removed from Scott's Holocaust discussion forum because it is the opinion of one of the moderators that they are not genuine but the result of being "photoshopped"

Apparantly he can think of no other explanation to explain the scaffolding. I wonder who exactly is the denier here?

Laurentz has got it right regarding did the Soviets mistake a normal defumigation chamber for a homicidal gas chamber. The answer is surely "no", there is absolutely no zyklon B staining on the walls, nor any visible means for ventilating it.
Besides, these photos I produce show unmistakably that there is no concrete roof at liberation and the photos that Laurentz show that a concrete roof as been built over it and a Zyklon B entry chute hacked out.

In other words giving this a designation of gas chamber was a knowing and deliberate fraud that involved conscious fabrication on the part of the Soviets.

This is the paradigm that needs to be used regarding all Eastern European gas chambers and crematoria.

I have obtain a slightly better resolution image from John Ball's work (held on CODOH)

Image

This was taken on September 1944.

At this point there appears not to be a Krema building with a large wing holding ovens and a towering chimney.

Instead there seems to be two small, individual huts standing side by side (the individual shadows of each hut can be made out).
Undoubtably these are the correct walled structures shown in the first photo above.

Its time to unambigously state the Majdanek crematorium is a post liberation installation designed with a psychological warfare objective in mind.

PS. John Ball gives the reference as GX 191. Does anyone know what archive this refers to? NARA?
http://www.codoh.info/found/fndaerial.html

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Postby Breker » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jun 30, 2006 3:19 am)

John Ball gives the reference as GX 191. Does anyone know what archive this refers to? NARA?

NARA - National Archives and Records Administration, US
http://www.archives.gov
We assume that GX 191 refers to a box and reel number.
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