Occam's Razor / 'Code Words' when no evidence exists

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 5 years ago (Thu Apr 22, 2004 8:31 pm)

The phrase 'Occam's razor' has come up; here it is as applied to Revisionism. I thought another look at this thread would be appropriate.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby code yellow » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 10:55 am)

Hebden wrote:
At base of the Jewish Holocaust are the policies of Nazi Germany toward European Jewry. Leaving aside the question of the gas chambers, how
many of these are you actually disputing?

:) One might also say

that at the base of the Jewish holocaust was corrupt Jewish

banking,bolshevism,and communist aggitation in the wake of German

poverty and hunger at Versailles.Nazis didn't develope a dislike of Jews

just because they were Jews.One needs to examine exactly what caused

this animosity towards Jews.

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Postby rrohde » 1 decade 5 years ago (Fri Apr 23, 2004 11:08 am)

Any way to get in contact via e-mail with W.Amner?

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Postby grenadier » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Aug 03, 2005 2:53 pm)

Sailor wrote:
I tell you my friend, these British decoded intercepts, including those about the shootings of Jews from Germany by the trainload in the Baltic states...


Can these alleged decoded intercepts that talk about shootings in the east be found on the Internet? Has anybody at this forum seen them? What exactly do they say?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Aug 03, 2005 3:56 pm)

Can these alleged decoded intercepts that talk about shootings in the east be found on the Internet? Has anybody at this forum seen them? What exactly do they say?

How convenient.

Produce typed English text and simply claim it was from a 'decoded' German message. The producers of such could conveniently say whatever they wanted about anything they desired and claim it as a 'document'.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Aug 05, 2005 11:06 am)

I don't know whether the Hofle to Heim intercept is a forgery. David Irving suggested some sceptisism about it but never followed up as far as I'm aware and he is not perfect. Remember he vouched for the authenticity of the recent Himmler papers but now seems to be conceding that they were plants.

In any case, we do know that the British did have a highly successful intercept program and did have a code breakthrough of the German codes. Right? At this point the burden of proof shifts to those who claim the document is a forgery in my opinion. So far I haven't seen any such evidence but I'm always ready to learn. It seems to me if one was going to plant a forgery then they might have made one which supported killings rather than "arrivals" at the camps, as does this one.

I start by assuming that the document is legitimate (even though it may not be) and point out that it has been misrepresented as supporting an exterminationist story. That's all for now.

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Postby Jonathan Harrison » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:45 am)

Weir makes an elementary error in his article:
The document doesn’t say the Jews were killed, it only indicates the number at each camp: 24,733 at Majdanek, 434,508 at Belzec, 101,370 at Sobibor and 713,555 at Treblinka. The document also provides a total of 24,733 for Lublin (Lemberg), but since Lublin is not considered by the keepers of the Holocaust to be an extermination camp, that is omitted from the article.


The Lublin figure is obviously just a restatement of the figure for Majdanek, which was also known as Lublin. If Weir doesn't even know this, I'm surprised he is being used as an authority here.

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Postby Hektor » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:17 am)

Hebden wrote:...It's not merely an arrivals list though, is it? It's a forged arrivals list. Therein lies the difference.
Those cunning British!
A document is supplied as a proof. Whose got to demonstrate it's authenticity? Those charging someone or those doubting the charge?

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Postby Jonathan Harrison » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:01 am)

Are any trained historians claiming that the decrypt is a forgery? If not, I would go with the trained historians. I note that nobody on this forum has given a plausible reason why the document may not be genuine. The name "Reinhard(t)" is mis-spelled in many Nazi documents, as the authors who found it make clear:

The subject of the radio telegram reads "fortnighty report Einsatz REINHART [sic] " The same idiosyncratic spelling Einsatz Reinhart appears in both the printed and the typewritten office letterheads of Höfle's section in Globocnik's staff. Whether it reflects Höfle's inability to spell is not clear, though the latter is well documented.

http://hgs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/15/3/468.pdf

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Postby Goethe » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:18 pm)

Jonathan Harrison wrote:Weir makes an elementary error in his article:
The document doesn’t say the Jews were killed, it only indicates the number at each camp: 24,733 at Majdanek, 434,508 at Belzec, 101,370 at Sobibor and 713,555 at Treblinka. The document also provides a total of 24,733 for Lublin (Lemberg), but since Lublin is not considered by the keepers of the Holocaust to be an extermination camp, that is omitted from the article.


The Lublin figure is obviously just a restatement of the figure for Majdanek, which was also known as Lublin. If Weir doesn't even know this, I'm surprised he is being used as an authority here.

I note with interest that Jonathan Harrison cannot show that these numbers prove that these Jews were killed. His distraction about Lublin/Majdanek does nothing in that regard.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Postby Goethe » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:32 pm)

Jonathan Harrison wrote:Are any trained historians claiming that the decrypt is a forgery? If not, I would go with the trained historians. I note that nobody on this forum has given a plausible reason why the document may not be genuine. The name "Reinhard(t)" is mis-spelled in many Nazi documents, as the authors who found it make clear:

The subject of the radio telegram reads "fortnighty report Einsatz REINHART [sic] " The same idiosyncratic spelling Einsatz Reinhart appears in both the printed and the typewritten office letterheads of Höfle's section in Globocnik's staff. Whether it reflects Höfle's inability to spell is not clear, though the latter is well documented.

http://hgs.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/15/3/468.pdf

Small beer. The document provides no proof that the Jews in question were murdered. Supremacist Jews are left with backtracking to the so very convenient 'codewords' sham ... while they claim the alleged 'holocaust' is the 'most documented event in history'. Right.

Let's recall that 'holocaust historian' Raoul Hilberg is not a "trained historian", he has no degree in history.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:15 pm)

Are any trained historians claiming that the decrypt is a forgery? If not, I would go with the trained historians. I note that nobody on this forum has given a plausible reason why the document may not be genuine.


I am of the opinion, regretably for revisionism, that the document is a forgery.

I say regretably for revisionism because the document is in obvious agreement of the Korherr report regarding 1.2 million resettled in the Russian East with 700 000 going via Treblinka.

http://www.codoh.com/video/treblinka.mpg

Given that it has already demonstrated that no one is buried at Treblinka this document perfectly disproves the exterminationist thesis.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:26 am)

Jonathan Harrison wrote:Weir makes an elementary error in his article:
The document doesn’t say the Jews were killed, it only indicates the number at each camp: 24,733 at Majdanek, 434,508 at Belzec, 101,370 at Sobibor and 713,555 at Treblinka. The document also provides a total of 24,733 for Lublin (Lemberg), but since Lublin is not considered by the keepers of the Holocaust to be an extermination camp, that is omitted from the article.


The Lublin figure is obviously just a restatement of the figure for Majdanek, which was also known as Lublin. If Weir doesn't even know this, I'm surprised he is being used as an authority here.


Mr. Harrison.

Graf has some things to say on the Hoefle telegram and Majdanek's "new" status as an "auxiliary extermination camp" (a la Stutthof) in the 2007 Majdanek article I'm currently translating. I have not reached this part of the text yet but if you understand German you can read it original here:

http://www.juergen-graf.sled.name/artic ... danek.html

(It's in the section entitled "Die Zahl der jüdischen Opfer laut Tomasz Kranz")


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