The Right to Defend herself

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The Right to Defend herself

Postby Freeman » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:41 pm)

Today, July 13th the news was filled with the events of Israel's bombing of Lebanon. This was apparently in retribution for the murder of 8 of its citizens and the kidnapping of 2 of its soldiers. As a result of these activities by an organization operating within a free and "democratic" country, Israel pounded the International airport and bombed several sites killing 40 - 50 civilians. President Bush announced that Israel has the right to defend herself.

Now consider...

In regard to grave violations of the laws of war committed by members of the Polish armed forces in 1939:

"The Federal German Archives in Koblenz commissioned in the 1960's a major project that involved the questioning of 6,106 persons and the collection and evaluation of 400 reports of eyewitnesses. This material establishes the murder of at least 3,841 named ethnic Germans. When it is considered that this result was obtained more than twenty years after the events and that only witnesses residing in the Federal Republic of Germany could be located and questioned, it would appear that the actual number is probably well in excess of that figure.

The records of the [Wehrmacht] War Crimes Bureau dealing with this question comprise the depositions of 593 witnesses before 44 military and civilian judges, those refer to approximately 1,000 named victims and 3,500 to 5,000 additional unnamed victims among the ethnic Germans. Of course, it is no longer possible to determine to what extent the reports of killings overlapped; nevertheless, since the records are incomplete and since it is hardly possible that the German judges were able to locate and interrogate all surviving witnesses, the figure of 6,000 murdered ethnic Germans would appear a reasonable estimate."
(Alfred M. de Zayas, The Wehrmacht War Crimes Bureau, 1939-1945 pp.139-40)

One might suppose that President Bush would argue that Germany had the right to defend herself in 1939.

If not, why the double standard?

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Postby driansmith » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:29 pm)

'This material establishes the murder of at least 3,841 named ethnic Germans.'

You don't say when and where. I assume from the context you mean in Poland on the eve of WWII? Can you provide more information?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:55 am)

Polish atrocities against ethnic Germans living on land ceased by Poland prior to WWII is well documented, in spite the failure of today's conformist historians to acknowledge it.

The German Wehrmacht also encountered vast atrocities committed against German civilians by the Poles after the onset of military action, also documented , and in spite of the failure of today's conformist historians to acknowledge it. I assume this is what Freeman is referring to.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sirius » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:30 am)

Freeman wrote:The records of the [Wehrmacht] War Crimes Bureau dealing with this question comprise the depositions of 593 witnesses before 44 military and civilian judges

Compare this to what we are offered as evidence for massacres committed by Germans...


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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:43 am)

This is a slightly different angle on the Israeli "retaliation" but last night I heard the PBS Lehrer program interview an "expert" American supporter of Israel who had the gall to demand that Hizbollah be condemned by the United Nations because they were in violation of UN Resolutions calling on them supposedly to refrain from aggressive actions against Israel and to disarm. He was quite indignant at such failure to obey the UN mandates.

What I found offensive is that Brother Lehrer, in his usual style, didn't have the guts to suggest that it was perhaps odd for Israel to claim the shelter of UN Resolutions when it was itself in open defiance of many, many such Resolutions [illegal settlements, refugees, etc.], not to mention it's defiance of the recent decision of the International Court of Justice on the illegal "wall" in the West Bank and the settlements themselves.

This goes on day by day.

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Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jul 14, 2006 3:51 pm)

Sources for Polish oppression and mass murder of ethnic Germans prior to WW II. Polish bestiality and cruelty had no limits.

Poland from the Inside. Bertram de Colonna. In this rare book from 1939, a British observer [so no one can scream: "nazi propaganda!"] who traveled in Poland shortly before World War Two broke out gives a telling account of the historical, economic, social and political conditions in this country. The ethnographic patchwork nature of the State of Poland, the Poles' violation of their treaty obligations with respect to the Free City of Danzig, and the comprehensive repression of the ethnic minorities (German and other) in Poland continue to be downplayed or denied outright today, yet Colonna shows that these were major factors in precipitating the war. Here:

During WW II:

This is how David Irving describes Polish atrocities at Bromberg:

Hitler’s own anti-Polish feelings were comparatively new ; born of his frustrated plan in the fall of 1938 for an alliance with Poland against Stalin, they were now reinforced by events in this campaign. There is no trace of his crueler plans for Poland among the documents predating the outbreak of the war. In Poland, however, Hitler and his generals were confronted by what they saw as still warm evidence that Asia did indeed begin just beyond the old Reich frontier in the east. In the western Polish town of Bydgoszcz (Bromberg) the local Polish commander had ordered the massacre of several thousand German residents on the charge that some of them had taken part in the hostilities. G–ring’s paratroopers were being shot on the spot when captured by the Poles. It was also charged that the Poles had used poisonous blister-gases in manufacturing booby traps. Hitler was particularly angered by a report that a Polish prisoner who had jabbed out the eyes of a wounded German soldier had been routinely sent to the rear through regular army channels. (Hitler said he should have been tried and executed on the spot by a drumhead court-martial.)

On the evening of the eighth, moreover, Warsaw radio imprudently appealed to civilians to join in the fight to defend their invaded homeland, and this was deplored as an open incitement to franc-tireur warfare. The population was instructed, for example, to pour gasoline over disabled German tanks and set them on fire. “Against Germany the Polish people fight side by side with the Polish soldiers, building barricades and combating the German operations and positions by every means they can.”

[b]Death in Poland
: the Fate of the Ethnic Germans. Edwin Erich Dwinger. The expulsion and mass murder of the ethnic Germans before and at the start of World War Two in Poland was by no means restricted to the Bloody Sunday of Bromberg, a massacre that is all too often downplayed or even denied outright today. This book, dating from 1940 and published here for the first time in English to commemorate the 65th anniversary of these events in September 2004, lets the reader experience almost first-hand the terrible fate of tens of thousands of ethnic Germans in Poland in September 1939. A shameful blot on the pages of Polish history, for all Polish post-War generations to bear for all time! [440Kb / 18 pages - or 854 Kb with the detailed photos] ... /dp00.html

Polish Atrocities Against the German Minority in Poland


An odd concept you may have never heard of. But it happened.

Atrocity photos you'll never see on the History Channel.

"Poland wants war with Germany and Germany will not be able to avoid it even if she wants to." (Polish Marshal Rydz-Smigly as reported in the Daily Mail, August 6th, 1939)

For Hitler's viewpoint, see link at bottom.

The historical record, as represented by the German government at the time, on Bromberg "Bloody Sunday" and related incidents -- 58,000 claimed dead or missing by Feb 1940. The German invasion was Sep 1939, but it's important to understand that many of the outrages had preceded the German invasion. This was proved by the amount of decomposition of the bodies. Thus, these atrocities cannot be excused simply as reprisals for the German invasion (which would be wrong anyway). They included 19 year-old girls with their faces smashed, amputations, disembowelments, shot thru' the eye, death-trauma births, you name it. Poles had been merrily slaughtering anything or anybody German since at least as early as April 1939, with smaller incidents stretching back to the close of WW I -- you haven't been told that by the Mass Media, or the fact that these atrocities were one of the main causes for the German invasion of Poland, something that was meant by the Germans to be a local solution to a local problem. Germany had already done the "right thing" by protesting in writing to the League of Nations literally dozens of times. The League of Nations did nothing, yet the problem had to be solved. [Photo at left: Polski marshal Rydz-Smigly, burdened with the weight of numerous medals. As soon as his army started to lose, this bragging Polish "warrior" ran away to Romania, leaving his troops in a lurch! Yet to this day, no opprobrium is cast his way by the establishment media. Why not?]

Subsequent to the German invasion, Britain declared war on Germany, yet after the Soviet Union invaded the eastern Polish territory only a few weeks later, Britain neglected to declare war on the Soviet Union. Why not, if the integrity of Poland's borders was so important? Inquiring minds want to know. After using these incidents as obvious pretext (the real purpose being to take down Germany as an economic rival and arch anti-NWO force), Britain then began bombing the Ruhr Valley the day after Churchill took office (May 10, 1940), specifically targeting civilian areas in addition to industrial and military targets. The rest is history -- a shameful and gut-wrenching one.

On Bromberg Bloody Sunday, thousands of ethnic Germans were slaughtered like pigs in an alley because the majority "poles" (the "slavic", non-Teutonic types, really Turco-Ugaric, Hunnic, Tartar and Mongoloid residue from the old "Dark Age" invasions) knew they could do so with total impunity. Marshal Pilsudski had died, and Britain's leaders had made unconditional guarantees to Poland as a pretense to ensure maximum political tensions in Eastern Europe to serve the interests of Soviet Russia. Poles in official capacity were openly laying claim to ancient German territory, were engaging in the crudest pea-brained saber-rattling, had engaged in border violations and boasted of marching thru' the gates of Berlin in 3 weeks (or days, depending on which buzzing brain was indulging in the fantasy). Poland had even stolen a chunk of "Czechoslovak" territory in early '39.

* * * * *

Few today weep for these innocent people. No Tom Brokaw pursing his lips over photos of them with a concerned expression, like he had just gulped a bushel of lemons. No Charles Kurrault telling folksy anecdotes about them, ending with "no, dear ones, we will not forget". No Richard D. Haffner, Ph.D. furrowing his professorial brow about them on his PBS talking head program. Nope, you'll see no paeans to these forgotten victims in our controlled, sycophantic media.

These files will help to set the historical record straight by providing some balance. If you want the "official" version, just turn on your TV set, or go to a major bookstore. It's all there.

"The [NATO] bombing war also violates and shreds the basic provisions of the United Nations Charter and other conventions and treaties; the attack on Yugoslavia constitutes the most brazen international aggression since the Nazis attacked Poland to prevent 'Polish atrocities' [his quotation marks] against Germans", said Walter J. Rockler, former prosecutor to the Nuremberg war crimes trials, in a letter to the Chicago Tribune, May 10, 1999. Walter needed to pull up a chair and take a deeper look at the evidence, without prosecutorial malice or prejudice. Rockler's wonderful perspicacity regarding the illegal bombing of Yugoslavia did not extend to similar revelations he may have had about Germany. An OBIT (click) identified Walt as "the son of Russian immigrant parents". This is usually a telling phrase...

So look now at material you will have a tough time finding in your local library, or anywhere else for that matter . . .

Documents on the Expulsion of the Sudeten Germans
Survivors speak out
. ... esg00.html

Two monographs detailing the mass murder and atrocities committed by Poles between 1918-1939 and following the war on the long-suffering German minority.

Orphans of Versailles: The German Minority in Western Poland, 1918-1939 and following the war.

Richard Blanke

A Terrible Revenge: The Ethnic Cleansing of the East European Germans

Alfred-Maurice de Zayas
Last edited by friedrich braun on Fri Jul 14, 2006 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Freeman » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:41 pm)

Sorry I wasn't clear. The atrocities against the German people that the passage was referring to were committed by members of the Polish armed forces in the months leading up to and immediately following the beginning of hostilities in September 1939.

What is particularly interesting about this book is that it examines the Wehrmacht-Untersuchungsstelle fuer Verletzungen des Voelkerrechts, Germany's Bureau for the Investigation of War Crimes. This organization left behind 225 volumes dealing with Allied violations, primarily by the Soviet Union. Although de Zayas offers lip service to the orthodox Holocaust story, it is interesting to see the photographs and read the level of documentation created by this official Nazi organization looking into war crimes perpetrated against German forces.

This organization it is noted was a direct successor to the Prussian Bureau which came out of World War I. It would be surprising if the Allies did not have similar organizations to review War Crimes charges. I am not aware however of such records ever coming to light.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:08 am)

Lest there be any doubt about the position of the US administration after vetoing a UN action seeking to end the current violence yesterday President Bush expressly supported the Israeli attack on Lebanon.

This is a disaster for the US. The people if not the leaders of every single nation in the Middle East despise Zionist Israel, not for reasons of anti-Semitism, but because of their treatment of the Palestinian people. If it wasn't clear before it is now. The US is their enemy too. What a fanatical idiot this man Bush is.

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