claim: Nazis used human remains to make soap

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Sushicotto
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Postby Sushicotto » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:14 pm)

David Phillips wrote:Professor Andrzej Stolyhwo is indeed a specialist in animal lipids and although I do not know it would not surprise me if there was a definite signature of human lipids that can be distinguished from other mammals.


Yes, but it would be good to know more about the actual results of his investigation. What lead him to believe it was human lipid and not from a cow, pig, or other animal? Were his results just consistent with the presence of human fat (ie, could not prove its absence)?

I did a PubMed search and found that Prof. A Stolyhwo seems to have co-authored only 5 papers: 1967, 2 in 1973, 1985, and 2003. How can a scientific researcher be a Prof with such a dismal publication record? How can he get funding for his research? :roll:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/quer ... Stolyhwo+A
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Re: claim: Nazis used human remains to make soap

Postby Werd » 7 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:23 am)

Here is an article. The bolded parts in brackets are my comments. After the article I will have some more comments.


Bar with ‘RIF’ initials found by Brooklyn man in uncle’s belongings; experts downplay ghoulish rumors.
Tuesday, February 22, 2011
Stewart Ain, Staff Writer
http://www.thejewishweek.com/news/new_y ... _questions

After Holocaust survivor Joseph Weinberger entered a nursing home last month, his nephew began cleaning out his Borough Park apartment and discovered an old suitcase containing his naturalization papers, German currency and a book about the Nazi doctor, Josef Mengele — all relatively standard-issue belongings.

Then Yitzchok Mermelstein reached into a bag and pulled out a mundane artifact, but one with the power to drive home the reality of the Holocaust with the force of a sledgehammer. It was a bar of soap bearing the initials “RIF.”

“When I opened the bag and saw ‘RIF,’ I remembered hearing that the Nazis made Jews into soap, and I thought that maybe this was one of the bars,” recalled Mermelstein, 52, of Flatbush.

“I believe I heard about it at the Holocaust Museum in Washington and that Yad Vashem [the Holocaust museum and memorial in Israel] has a couple of bars,” he added. “I wrapped it in a towel. Seeing the Mengele pictures and realizing that my uncle used the suitcase when he came to America, I put two and two together.”

[More like he subtracted 3 from 6 and still got 6.]

Mermelstein said he went home and looked on the Internet for information about such soap and saw a picture of a bar purported to have been produced by the Nazis from the bodies of concentration camp inmates. A picture of one of those bars of soap “looked the same as I had, only it had a different number” below the initials RIF. (The initials are believed to be those of a German soap manufacturer.)

[The soap was numbered? Let me guess. A five-digit Hollerith number.]

Mermelstein said he then visited his uncle in the nursing home but that his uncle, who has dementia, was unable to remember where he got the soap or anything about it.

Mermelstein said that “since I know that human remains have to be buried,” he contacted people he knew at Misaskim, an Orthodox Brooklyn-based group that provides support to families in mourning and other services.

“They asked if it was real,” Mermelstein said. “I said I wish it wasn’t, but it is. … My mother was in a concentration camp, perhaps he got the soap from her. … It’s a one in a billion chance you find something like this.”

[I'm sure he meant to say one in six million chance.]

At first there was talk of burying the soap in a dignified ceremony. But as more and more people heard of it, questions were raised about whether the Nazis ever really did use human fat to make soap. The soap, which is brownish in color and measures about two inches by one inch, was then locked up in Misaskim’s offices for safekeeping.

A staff member at Misaskim researched the matter and posted a story about it on the group’s website. In it, she recounted how Yosef Weinberger had spent the war hiding from the Nazis in cellars and bunkers; the Nazis killed his parents and nine of his 13 siblings.

The staff member, Suri Roth, found that judges in the Nuremberg Trials accepted the testimony from someone who said he had worked at a laboratory that was involved in the production of soap that contained human fat. A bar of such soap was actually introduced as evidence in the trials. Five years ago, that soap was tested by Poland’s National Remembrance Institute, which announced that it did indeed contain human fat.

But Roth said Holocaust experts today believe that only a small amount of soap containing human fat was ever produced.

Holocaust historian Deborah Lipstadt told The Jewish Week that “there is no proof that the Nazis made Jews into soap in a mass fashion. … There were attempts, but it was never practical.”

She noted, however, that one museum, the Chamber of the Holocaust on Mt. Zion in Israel, actually displays a bar of soap purportedly made by the Nazis from human fat. The museum, maintained by the Diaspora Yeshiva, is located in a cellar and built in 1949. Lipstadt said she knows of no other museum with such a display.

The Virginia Holocaust Museum in Richmond shows footage of a Russian film that was played at the Nuremberg Trials. It shows Russian soldiers coming upon a skeleton in a vat at the Gdansk Anatomical Institute, from which it was deduced that the Nazis used human fat to make soap.

Jay Ipson, the museum’s founder, said he knows questions have been raised about the veracity of the soap story and that all he is doing is showing visitors what was presented at the Nuremberg trial.

A survivor, Ipson said that after the war many survivors had bars of this soap that they believed contained human remains. He said one survivor who spoke at his synagogue a few years ago recalled seeing survivors burying a number of bars of soap in a cemetery in Munich.

But Peter Black, senior historian at the United States Holocaust Memorial and Museum in Washington, D.C., said questions about the soap are frequently asked by visitors and that his answer is, “It didn’t happen.”

“There is nothing we can hold our hats on that would indicate the Nazis tried this even experimentally,” he said.

Asked about the Nuremberg Trials, Black said the evidence presented there “gave the rumor some legs.” In addition to the Russian film, two British prisoners of war testified that they worked at the anatomical institute, but Black said their testimony was “inconsistent.” One of them gave the court the “recipe” that was in the institute for making the soap — and there was no mention of using human remains.

Black said he read the report of the tests conducted five years ago in Warsaw, but he noted, “The forensic work was never released.”

Regarding the initials “RIF” on the soap bars, Black said it is widely believed this stood for, “Jews rest in peace.” In fact, he said, it was the initials of the soap manufacturer, Reich Center for Industrial Fat Provisioning.

“The Nazis did a lot of things that were very ghoulish, but for some reason the shock value of the soap, of leather goods and lampshades made of human products capture the imagination,” Black said.

(Mark Jacobsen’s recent book “The Lampshade” is an account of the author’s attempt to authenticate whether a lampshade made from human skin could be traced back to the Nazis.)

Black said there is no proof that such objects contain human product “and if it does, we don’t know it is from Jews. … And the difficulty is tying it back to the Nazis. There is nobody who was close enough to have seen the process. There were stories in Romania, Auschwitz and Danzig. But if you follow them to their source, there is nothing.”

Mermelstein said he would like to have the bar of soap from his uncle’s suitcase tested to see if it contains human fat. If it does, he said, it would be buried with proper respect.


It has been almost a year. Where are the test results? Has he buried the bar of soap yet? Secondly did anyone notice the name of the person who was involved with this bar of soap? MERMELSTEIN. Do you think it's any relation to that sham of a witness and exposed liar Mel Mermelstein? Just maybe. Secondly, look at the pathetic blog entry of Roberto Muehlenkamp.

http://holocaustcontroversies.blogspot. ... human.html
2) What does it mean to "make soap"? Does it mean to manufacture it on an industrial scale? In this case, certainly not. At most, we're talking about small-scale experiments of cleaning-agent production for local purposes. Dr. Joachim Neander proposes in his fine article that no "production" was actually involved, rather, the soap might have been a simple by-product of corpses' maceration. I think this might be possible, though I also think that the article is flawed in several important respects. Regardless of its flaws, however, it does point out several problems with evidence for the claim that the "soap" was manufactured, rather than created as a normal by-product.

In my personal opinion, the issue is not fully resolved.

3) Regardless of whether there was a "manufacture" of soap or not, there is actually no controversy as to whether there was a cleaning-agent involved, which was produced from human tissues. Dr. Spanner himself testified to that fact in a German court, as Dr. Neander points out. Of course, he (Spanner) denied that the corpses were boiled in order to produce soap - he went with the "by-product" version.

4) This fact, and also the new findings, show that the "soap" produced by the Soviets as evidence at Nuremberg is quite probably authentic human soap. At least deniers cannot prove otherwise. One more canard shot down.

So it was probably human soap, but the burden is apparently on the deniers to prove it is not soap rather than on the believers to prove it is. This is a reversal of the burden of proof. This is like when Muehlenkamp said we have no reason to doubt Kola since archaeologists are generally trustworthy, whereas archaeologists have to prove what they say is there. Archaeology is generally a respected field and archaeologists are generally trustworthy because they PROVE their trust by documenting what they find and publishing it worldwide. In other words archaeologist A can't ride on the back of the proven trustworthiness of archaeologist B and demand that we believe him (archaeologist A) without checking his results.

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Re: claim: Nazis used human remains to make soap

Postby Augustus » 7 years 10 months ago (Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:36 am)

I've read that all this turning jews into soap bars and lampshades nonsense has long been acknowledged by jewry to be nothing but a figment of the overly-paranoid "survivor" imagination. However -- and please correct me if I'm wrong -- it is still a crime in "democracies" such as France to state otherwise; and there are laws on the books that will enable prosecutors to bring you to trial, to "justice", for denying these "facts."
By doubt we come to inquiry; by inquiry we come to truth.
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Re: claim Nazis used human remains to make soap

Postby Hektor » 1 year 4 weeks ago (Thu Nov 15, 2018 4:38 pm)

simon1003 wrote:
friedrich braun wrote:The IPN investigation found that the soap in question produced by Professor Spanner was used to clean operating and autopsy rooms.


So a piece of soap used in morgues and operating theatres contained traces of human tissue? No shit?

Show me a piece of soap used in those kind of ares which doesn't have such cross contamination.

My point exactly as well. Let's say we find a piece of soap and testing reveals the presence of human tissue. Would that prove that the soap was made from human body fat? The answer is NO. It won't contradict it, but it doesn't prove it.

Soap is made using a fat or oil made from plants or animals (or artificially) mixing it with alkaline substance. That alkaline solution would commonly be caustic soda or caustic potassium, but others would work as well. That process is called saponification. A salt is formed with fatty acids.

Now you can get fat from human bodies the same way you get beef tallow. When cattle is slaughtered some cut offs may remain that aren't destined to become food. The cut offs are cooked to separate the fat from bigger tissue chunks that may have remained. The remaining tallow can than be used in soap production.

To prove that the tallow is from human origin, you'd have to show that the fatty acids that formed the salts are congruent with the profile of those from humans. Not sure how discriminating that is. But it's not as simple as finding human tissue in soap. In fact even used bath soaps may contain human tissue due to wear offs of skin or bleeding after people have used them intensively.

The other question is of course the one of the origin, with the necessary back up one can easily frame someone of having produced soap from a human corpse. The human soap rumor seems to be older stemming from world war two. Guess what. The homicidal gassing rumor does come from that era as well.


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