the lack of cyanide residue in the alleged 'gas chambers'

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gasto
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Postby gasto » 1 decade 3 years ago (Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:04 pm)

Radar wrote:Dr Green also went to lengths to show how the moisture content of the gas chamber wall after washing would have broken down the cyanide, making Prussian Blue formation impossible. However, he doesn't confront why the Majdanek 'gas chambers' are covered in Prussian Blue.


But Green forgets (aka. evades) the assertion that it would have lasted hours until sonderkommandos could enter the gas chamber and start washing the walls, and not just minutes, as Rudolf states...

By that time, HCN would have already penetrated the gas chamber walls...washing would have been useless; setting aside the fact that the consequently damp walls would have adsorbed even more HCN on the next gassing...
If Human Soap rumour was fake, why can´t all the other absurd claims be too??

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Postby Markion » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Feb 22, 2006 4:17 am)

I have some questions left. What do you say about the thesis that the Cyanide was absorbed by the bodies of the victims and tehrefore left no traces. I know, it is impossible, because then logically not everyone would have died but only the persons closest to the pelltes. But is there a more accurate explanation, why this cannot be so.

Also, given the thesis that it took only 20 minutes to gass people, would that still be enough time to let a chemical reaction between wall and cyanide take place.

I want to close my gaps, so no1 can surprise me any more.
Here I stand. I can do nothing else. God help me! Amen. - Martin Luther

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Feb 22, 2006 10:09 am)

Markion,

Considering that Zyklon-B required many hours to outgas it's cyanide load, the scenarios you propose do not hold up. And remember, the process allegedly took place day and night. Dead or not, 20 minutes or not, the cyanide would continue to be released; there should be massive cyanide residue.

Then there's the problem of what to do with continually outgassing Zyklon-B.

Just think about it; one alleged 'gas chamber' alone supposedly gassed 500,000 Jews at supposedly ca. 2,000 Jews per session, but yet we have no cyanide residue to support the claim.

The entire story is ridiculously dumb.

Re-read this entire thread.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Bergmann » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Feb 22, 2006 1:37 pm)

Markion wrote:I have some questions left. What do you say about the thesis that the Cyanide was absorbed by the bodies of the victims and tehrefore left no traces. I know, it is impossible, because then logically not everyone would have died but only the persons closest to the pelltes. But is there a more accurate explanation, why this cannot be so.

Also, given the thesis that it took only 20 minutes to gass people, would that still be enough time to let a chemical reaction between wall and cyanide take place.

I want to close my gaps, so no1 can surprise me any more.


This is indeed a good question.
Naturally cyanide which was already absorbed by the bodies could not contribute to the formation of Prussian blue at the morgue walls any more.

To start with we have to come to some agreement on how much Zyklon-B was used to do the job, how long the gassing took, how much time was necessary to remove the gas from the morgue and how much time it took to remove the dead bodies.

Unfortunately the operational instructions for the homicidal use of the morgues were never found, and the amount of Zyklon-B needed for the gassings has to be estimated.

Dr. Green of the HHP assumed a fairly low amount of HCN in order to prove that prussian blue could not form. He further assumed that the Zyklon-B pellets were removed as soon as everyone was dead inside as determined by looking through the peep hole (medical doctors normally determine the clinical death by checking the heart beat), contrary to witness statements (Tauber, Kula) that the pellets were only removed after they were depleted of the gas. And then only a short time was required to evacuate the gas.

Rudolf on the other hand assumed that at least 3000 ppm gas density was necessary, based on experience with US execution gas chambers, and that quite an overdose of Zyklon-B was required since after 10 minutes only 10% of the gas was evaporated from the pellets.

Cyanide fumigation rooms required a pre-heating to at least 25ºC, a gassing of 1½ hour and a de-gassing of at least also 1½ hour. Only after the poison gas had been proven to be removed with a chemical test set could workers enter the fumigation room, protected with a rubber suit and applied gas masks. The walls of these fumigation rooms do show the bluish staining of prussian blue.
Source: http://www.vho.org/tr/2004/2/Mattogno140-154.html
"3. The Rules for the Handling of Hydrocyanic Acid for Disinfestation in the Gusen camp"

Dr. Krebsbach, author of these instructions, was transferred to Auschwitz.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Feb 22, 2006 2:11 pm)

Dr. Green of the HHP assumed a fairly low amount of HCN in order to prove that prussian blue could not form. He further assumed that the Zyklon-B pellets were removed as soon as everyone was dead inside as determined by looking through the peep hole (medical doctors normally determine the clinical death by checking the heart beat), contrary to witness statements (Tauber, Kula) that the pellets were only removed after they were depleted of the gas. And then only a short time was required to evacuate the gas.

So, what does this shady 'Dr. Green' believe happened to the Zyklon-B, which would continue to give off cyanide, after it was withdrawn from the alleged 'gas chambers' to the outside?

The liars have painted themselves into a corner by trying to demand belief in bizarre propaganda.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Markion » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:45 am)

Thank you so far, Hannover and Bergmann. I understand my second question is answered.

If one (Believer) wants to assume a LOW CONCENTRATION for no stainings, then the execution time would prolong, which is impossible since it contradicts eyewitnesses.

If one (Believer) wants to assume quick murder and therefore NO TIME for chemical reaction, then a massive overdose would be required, since the outgassing takes hours. This overdose would have left traces.

The points of removal and washing do not matter anymore in this paradox. It is important, that the Holohoax story in a discussion with a believer is not "only" improbable and absurd, illogical and inefficient, but that it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE. From my personal experience I know that one of the key phrases that believers use is:

"The Germans did it, so it must have been possible!"

Or , like Turpitz put it:
‘The masses will always believe in, what is seen to be strongly believed in.’

Highly illogical, as this may be, it will always be a strong support for one's twisted opinion. Only if displayed, that the gassing story is IMPOSSIBLE, they can be shaken awake.

It reminds very much of Galilei vs. the church:
"It is written that the world is flat, so it be so!"
vs.
"The world is definitly not flat, so the scripture is wrong!"

So, time and concentration points are destroyed, but what now about that "absorbtion" thing?

Does anyone actually know , how much cyanide would be absorbed by human bodies? How long it takes? How big would be the effect on the concentration of Cyanide? Do dead bodies also absorb Cyanide?

I know that for many of you, like Hannover, it is perfectly clear that even absorbtion from bodies cannot prevent the creation of stainings, for example on the floor, but to what degree have they influence in the process that we investigate?
That is my question. If that question seems unimportant for you, keep in mind that believers will use it.
Here I stand. I can do nothing else. God help me! Amen. - Martin Luther

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ClaudiaRothenbach
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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Feb 24, 2006 5:12 am)

The Rudolf Report (http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/trr/1.html) contains a chapter about: 1.2. Hydrogen Cyanide-a Dangerous Poison.

Germar Rudolf discusses HCN adsorption as well as release by human bodies.
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Re:

Postby PotPie » 1 decade 2 months ago (Sat Sep 12, 2009 11:12 am)

Vallon wrote:Because I have never heard of the use of any cleaning chemicals either, I think they just used water. But they must have cleaned the place, otherwise the next group would have been reluctant to go in. Gerstein mentions how messy a gas chamber was (and Müller says exactly the same thing).


Citing Mueller is a very poor source, to put it mildly, but let's pretend Mueller wasn't lying through his teeth about having been there and say that he was. In page 135 of his memoir he describes only superficial cleaning of the alleged gas chambers:

"Meanwhile Moll and his minions, anxious to have the gas chambers cleared and superficially cleaned, harried and hurried the exhausted bearers."

Hosing down and mopping up would have diluted and removed HCN that had adsorbed and dissolved in moisture on the walls.


If mere hosing down would have worked then I wonder why American execution gas chambers were not cleaned in such a simple manner after executions. Fred Leuchter explained the manner in which not only the chamber but the body of the executed were cleaned and scrubbed so as to not poison those who would touch the chamber or the body afterward. You can also find similar in OSHA guidelines on HCN surface contaminations.

Touching contaminated bodies would cause contamination of the person touching them and burning the corpses in the near vicinity would undoubtedly resuspend the poison and effect those in the near vicinity. Neither former inmates nor SS men who inmates claim watched 24/7 reported symptoms associated with HCN exposure. Putting bare hands on thousands of bodies per day coated in poisonous residues of a lethal dosage certainly isn't conducive to healthy living and neither is being in the near vicinity of the cremation of these contaminated bodies. This kind of exposure on the part of corpse bearers isn't going to be low-level, either. People like Mueller claimed to have spent substantial time in this environment directly touching thousands of these corpses for several years came out with no symptoms, and this is yet another (on top of already many) reasons we know Mueller is lying.

OSHA has some guidelines on this, to give us an idea:

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/healthguidelin ... ition.html

EXPOSURE LIMITS

* OSHA PEL

The current Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) permissible exposure limit (PEL) for hydrogen cyanide is 10 ppm (11 milligrams per cubic meter (mg/m(3))) as an 8-hour time-weighted average (TWA) concentration. The OSHA PEL also bears a "Skin" notation, which indicates that the cutaneous route of exposure (including mucous membranes and eyes) contributes to overall exposure [29 CFR 1910.1000, Table Z-1].

* NIOSH REL

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) has established a recommended exposure limit (REL) for hydrogen cyanide of 4.7 ppm (5 mg/m(3)) as a STEL. NIOSH also assigns a "Skin" notation to hydrogen cyanide [NIOSH 1992].

Routes of Exposure

Exposure to hydrogen cyanide can occur through inhalation, ingestion, eye or skin contact, and absorption through the skin, eyes, and mucous membranes [Sittig 1991; Rom 1992].

PERSONAL HYGIENE PROCEDURES

If hydrogen cyanide contacts the skin, workers should flush the affected areas immediately with plenty of water, followed by washing with soap and water.

Clothing contaminated with hydrogen cyanide should be removed immediately, and provisions should be made for the safe removal of the chemical from the clothing. Persons laundering the clothes should be informed of the hazardous properties of hydrogen cyanide, particularly its potential for severe systemic toxicity by dermal absorption or inhalation.

A worker who handles hydrogen cyanide should thoroughly wash hands, forearms, and face with soap and water before eating, using tobacco products, using toilet facilities, applying cosmetics, or taking medication.

Workers should not eat, drink, use tobacco products, apply cosmetics, or take medication in areas where hydrogen cyanide or a solution containing hydrogen cyanide is handled, processed, or stored.


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