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ASMarques
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Divine wind?

Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:30 am)

I have just come across an interesting and (to me at least) new series of clips on the "Holocaust" hoax in 9 parts, in YouTube, from Judea Declares War On Germany part 1 to Judea Declares War On Germany part 9, and in the end I got so frustrated that I feel I must leave this agonizing question to all those concerned: why is it that well-informed and apparently honest revisionists keep falling head-on into the same stupid old trap of giving credence to the "Protocols of Zion" humbug (see Judea Declares War On Germany part 2), thus emulating the professional liars and falsifiers, and playing straight into their hands? I mean is this some odd masochistic eternal need to achieve self-defeat? Will the good folks of kamikaze pop-revisionism never learn?

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 07, 2007 9:53 pm)

Maybe I should be a little more clear about this. I'm certainly not entitled to give any lessons to good people who have sacrificed a lot for the cause of revisionism, but it pains me to see that sometimes the constant exposure to the incessant pure propaganda tactics of the opposition ends up by bringing about the same sort of effort on the revisionist side. It's certainly tempting to indulge in that sort of thing and forget the importance of the truth, but in the end, in my opinion, this will always be a self-defeating strategy. This is what I meant, not any preaching to very good people who may know more than I do, but may also sometimes lose contact with the outside view they are trying to connect to.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:26 am)

It's frustrating, for some reason I can't get the audio.

I've never really investigated the "Protocols of Zion", so I cannot say if I accept or do not accept that they were a contrivance of the Czar, which I believe is the usual claim. Of course there are those that would say 'who cares if they were a Czarist forgery, the content is certainly correct'. I'm not sure if that is what Toben is getting at.

I generally find the discussion of the "Protocols of Zion" to be a fairly useless distraction. I mean, why bother, Mr. Toben?
Since we know the alleged 'gas chambers' are scientifically impossible as alleged, since we have no evidence that 6,000,000 Jews and 6,000,000 'others' were murdered, and since the alleged enormous mass graves for the alleged Einsatzgruppen shootings cannot be shown to exist even though there were supposedly 'eyewitnesses'; what we have is an irrefutable case for the Revisionist position. Notice the ease in which we've routed all those that have tried to make the case for the standard storyline. The "Protocols" are simply irrelevant.

ASMarques, there is certainly nothing wrong with disagreeing about what other Revisionists say, in fact it shows our willingness to ask critical questions; something the judeo-supremacist Thought Police seem incapable of.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:52 pm)

The previous post by Gertrud (I can't see it any longer, for some reason) that spoke about Bromberg may have a point. Besides, I notice the scenes of dead bodies inside a sort of large hangar that accompanied the Bromberg episode in the clip comes not from the said Polish massacre of Germans, but from one of the Allied air raids (probably Hamburg, if I'm not mistaken).

Of course, none of this is absolutely relevant to «Holocaust» debunking, but I, for one, would wish that each time I mention the topic to acquaintances, I wouldn't have to reply to unfair accusations of both sides indulging in falsification etc...

Hannover wrote:ASMarques, there is certainly nothing wrong with disagreeing about what other Revisionists say, in fact it shows our willingness to ask critical questions; something the judeo-supremacist Thought Police seem incapable of.


Yes, I get your point. I hope Gertrud does too.

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Jan 08, 2007 12:55 pm)

The previous post by Gertrud (I can't see it any longer, for some reason) that spoke about Bromberg ...

Sorry, it wasn't related to your point about the 'Protocols'. If we're going to discuss specifics we need to do so thread by thread, otherwise we have a mess.

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Postby ASMarques » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Jan 08, 2007 1:09 pm)

Moderator wrote:
The previous post by Gertrud (I can't see it any longer, for some reason) that spoke about Bromberg ...

Sorry, it wasn't related to your point about the 'Protocols'. If we're going to discuss specifics we need to do so thread by thread, otherwise we have a mess.
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I see what you mean, thanks. Please allow me then to state that my point, in case people didn't get it, was not specifically about the "Protocols", but rather about the possible falsifications that revisionists under pressure might be occasionally tempted to indulge in. If I remember correctly Gertrude mentioned the high level of suspension of disbelief necessary to go along with some parts of the clips and spoke about Bromberg in that context. That's all. You don't need to apologize. Not to me, at least. Next thread, please.

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Postby diaz52 » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:19 pm)

ASMarques wrote:I have just come across an interesting and (to me at least) new series of clips on the "Holocaust" hoax in 9 parts, in YouTube, from Judea Declares War On Germany part 1 to Judea Declares War On Germany part 9, and in the end I got so frustrated that I feel I must leave this agonizing question to all those concerned: why is it that well-informed and apparently honest revisionists keep falling head-on into the same stupid old trap of giving credence to the "Protocols of Zion" humbug (see Judea Declares War On Germany part 2), thus emulating the professional liars and falsifiers, and playing straight into their hands? I mean is this some odd masochistic eternal need to achieve self-defeat? Will the good folks of kamikaze pop-revisionism never learn?


You make a good point, ASMargues. By adding extraneous arguments or information to a Holocaust discussion or argument, revisionists open themselves up to counter-attacks directed at that extraneous information which may or may not be on as solid ground as is Holocaust revisionism. So in a way its giving an "out" to the establishment Holohoax folks. By sticking only to the issue at hand, the Holocaust, you take away this "out," leaving them with the following options for response:

1.) ignoring you (which they usually choose. But that can only work for so long). Or
2.) name calling (Which they also often do). Or lastly,
3.) trying to argue based on the facts (which they usually avoid, for obvious reasons).

But, again, by adding other arguments such as The Protocols to your Holocaust arguments, you give them another option which is simply to attack The Protocols argument, which quite frankly most people dont know enough about, one way or the other.
-You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.
-The establishment can't control the web, and the control of information through all means but one, is no control at all.

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Postby Daniel Saez Lorente » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Apr 29, 2007 11:47 am)

Hannover wrote:It's frustrating, for some reason I can't get the audio.

I've never really investigated the "Protocols of Zion", so I cannot say if I accept or do not accept that they were a contrivance of the Czar, which I believe is the usual claim. Of course there are those that would say 'who cares if they were a Czarist forgery, the content is certainly correct'.


The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is copied from Macchiavelli's answers in Maurice Joly's DIALOGUE IN HELL BETWEEN MONTESQUIEU AND MACCHIAVELLI, which is available second hand from www.abebooks.com.
My personal belief is that it was concocted by the Zionists to encourage emigration to Palestine (like the Laval Affair some 50 years later).
Unless one believes that the Czarist secret police had the sophistication to fake something like that, which is possible, but unlikely, in my view.
Incidentally, Joly's book is very good, well worth reading, and not too expensive.

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Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Apr 29, 2007 5:45 pm)

Unless one believes that the Czarist secret police had the sophistication to fake something like that, which is possible, but unlikely, in my view.


What would the Czar's secret police amuse themselves in concocting such elaborate forgeries. This is what I never understood. Apparently even the last Czar thought that they were legitimate. I've read that when he was picked up by the Bolshevik, Jewish murderers, he had a copy in his room.
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."

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Postby David Phillips » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:47 pm)

My two cents worth on the Protocols is that they are like a satire in which a kernel of truth has been wrapt and should be read as such. Read them for entertainment and for the "what if" factor. A true forgery if you like.

I especially liked the line "The Press Agencies are already in our hands"
Also worth reading Umberto Eco's Foucaults Pendalum regarding both the Protocols and the Holocaust.

A similiar more recent parody is the great "Report from Iron Mountain" from the early 1970s. I cant help thinking that it was a way of getting some concepts into public discusssion that could only come via a parody.

It was discussing the function of war in society as a stablising factor and asking what could be done to replace it.

Suggestions included a series of enviromental scares that would require society to moblise to combat it (Global warming anyone?) and a prolonged war against a secret and undefeatable enemy (Al qaeda anyone?)

Another true forgery.

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Postby friedrich braun » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:09 pm)

For those interested in exploring the possibility that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion might be authentic, you might check out the following website by an Australian:

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/index.html

He has links to the arguments pro and con and comes down on the side that the Protocols are for real, explaining what's wrong with the Jewish "debunking" arguments.
"The dead came back from Jerusalem, where they did not find what they were seeking."



"The Seven Sermons to the Dead"



C.G. Jung

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Apr 30, 2007 11:01 pm)

My position remains essentially unchanged. The 'Protocols' serve no use for Revisionists, or those who evaluate judeo-supremacism. Contemporary empirical facts are plentiful enough from which to make observations on judeo-supremacism.
Even Jews admit to what was generally stated in the 'Protocols'. Basically, the contents are in fact today's reality. The provenance of the 'Protocols' matters not.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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