The "Hoax" - was this debunked already?

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The "Hoax" - was this debunked already?

Postby Flavian Greece » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jan 10, 2007 9:07 am)

The "Hoax"

Adapted from an essay written
for Usenet on July 30, 1994
by Jamie McCarthy
and reposted on July 30, 1997.
No "revisionist" has yet responded to this essay.


Surely if people were employed to fabricate mountains of evidence as you claim, you must know some details about some of these things. You seem to have discovered this grand hoax that has fooled the world, surely a few names and places must be a minor feat for such geniuses.

Barry Shein, 1994

The Holocaust-deniers, or "revisionists" if they prefer that term, say that the Holocaust never happened. To be precise, they insist that the Nazis never had a plan or policy to try to kill approximately eleven million civilians that they didn't like, about half of whom were Jewish. Not having that as an intention, then, of course, they also did not put it into action. In particular, they didn't have any gas chambers or gas vans.

So how was the world led to believe that something called a "Holocaust" happened in the middle of this century? Well, it's all a big hoax, we're told, in books with titles like The Hoax of the Twentieth Century. We're being scammed. We're being fooled.

But hoaxes don't form spontaneously. A hoax implies a hoaxer. There are no scams without scam artists.

What are we really being told? Let's look at the world through their eyes, let's look at things from this fantasy point of view.

Starting in 1942, the Jews began circulating rumors that they were all being killed. These rumors filtered through various news agencies, from various sources.

By 1945, the Jews had forged tens of thousands of Nazi documents, all "proving" that the Nazis had committed mass murder. The Jews invented the whole thing in a whirlwind effort. They invented the places where the gassings took place. They researched and invented the techniques that were used. They forged photographs and wove them into the documentary record.

Their Jewish chemists figured out which perfectly ordinary buildings would be palmed off as gas chambers. They forged reports of how well the gassing operations were going. They forged reports to Hitler saying that the Eastern territories were free of Jews.

They forged inventories of the morgues, saying there were showerheads and gas-tight doors in them. They forged the whole story about SS guards being taken to a special camp to get them used to the idea of killing Jews.

Everything, every bit of it, forged.

In article <31clre>, Friedrich Berg briefly discusses this fantasy forgery whirlwind:

Practically every scrap of such evidence is a postwar fabrication, fabricated by people who had been employed primarily to generate such "evidence" since there was absolutely no other evidence to begin with.

"People who had been employed primarily to generate such 'evidence.'"

Who was the employer?

How many employees were there?

I work at a fairly small company; my department is about ten people. We don't try to do nearly as much as these fantastic Jewish forgers must have.

I mean, those guys must have been productive! Draftspeople to forge plans for the buildings, chemists to decide how the Nazis would have done the killing, authors to write fake diaries of the Sonderkommando and bury them at Auschwitz (to remain undiscovered for decades) ... voice talent and audio engineers to forge Himmler's hours-long Poznan speeches, writers to decide who would have written what memos to whom, and the typists -- good heavens, can you imagine the number of typists the whole Operation Jewish Forgery would have required!? They literally had to forge the entire workings of a small but significant part of the German government for four or five years.

Right down to the endless pages detailing which military groups took which positions and how many Jews they killed, rows and rows of small numbers, tabulated, formulated. They must have intercepted the actual routes that the Einsatzgruppen took, figured out which prisoners they took, forged documents saying that they'd executed all the Jews, and then inserted the forgeries into the appropriate places. Wow. That's a lot of work. Hundreds of Einsatzgruppen reports to forge. And that's just the Einsatzgruppen, that's just a million or so murders to report. Multiply that times ten, that's the scale we're talking.

Somehow the Jews got their Jew agents to be there when this forged evidence was presented to Hoess and Broad and Kremer and all the dozens of Nazis tried in 1945 and 1946. All of them must have had the same initial reaction: "what!? I never wrote that!?" but the Jew agents, of course, slapped them around a bit until they admitted it was true. And the Jew agents were very good, because every single one of them admitted that it was true. Those agents must have been quite good at making Nazis admit things, because a lot of those Nazis were seasoned military men. Where'd they hire those agents from?

They found a few thousand Jews who were willing to lie through their teeth and say that Auschwitz was an extermination camp, not a concentration camp. They must have held a big meeting, gathered all the survivors together, and briefed them. "OK," the Head Jew would have said, "repeat after me: Auschwitz was not a nice place to live. You did not go swimming at Auschwitz. Auschwitz used its morgues to gas people. In the summer of 1944 they burned bodies in ditches. Everyone on the left, you actually saw people being led to the gas chambers. You on the right, you did not, but you heard a lot about it." And so on.

All in all, the survivors did a good job of remembering their instructions. Sure, some of them went overboard and started talking about huge clouds of smoke billowing out of the crematories when it was actually pretty smoke-free. In fact these minor slip-ups would be the only way that, decades later, revisionists would deduce that they were lying. So overall, they all stuck to their story remarkably well.

And then they did the same thing over and over, for the trials in the 1950s and 1960s. Even for trails that took place in Germany, the Jewish agents found a way to torture innocent German defendants in German jail cells into confessing, before a German court, to crimes they didn't commit.

Most crafty of all, the Jews didn't forge documents that would provide hard links from Hitler to the gas chambers. They refused to forge a "Führer Order" that would indict Hitler. They pretended the gassings were cloaked in secrecy, so they forged documents that spoke only in code-words, and then other documents to link the code-words to murder.

Rather than forge an inventory of the gas chamber in which it was called a "gas chamber," they forged an inventory for a morgue which listed 17 showerheads -- and then let it remain undiscovered for years until researchers realized its importance!

The ultimate in sneaky!

My department at my company generates a lot of paperwork. We don't magically all agree how we're going to approach a task, and then simply do it -- I wish it worked that way, but it doesn't! Working together requires constant communication. We have meetings all the time; sometimes it seems like I spend entire days doing nothing but meeting and talking about when next to meet and sending notes about future meetings and photocopying proposals. And my department, from what I hear, is small potatoes for bureaucracy, we're remarkably informal.


This whole Jewish-forgery operation must have generated a lot of paperwork as well. How many people must it have taken to do all this? Fifty people? Hell, they'd need fifty typists. A hundred? A thousand?

No, a lot more than that. There are literally truckloads of documentation, and forging the documentation is easy compared to delivering it to the right places, and figuring out who did what, what to forge, and who to falsely accuse, and making all of it fit together.

Making it all fit is the toughest part. The false can't contradict the true documents in the record, and has to have corroborating documents as well. For every document showing a nugget of direct implication, there must be a dozen that relate indirectly, and a hundred other documents have to be checked and cross-checked to verify everything fits.

Ten thousand people, maybe?

And here I'll drop the fantasy-italics, because here's where the fantasy meets the reality. I'm told that Microsoft employees send and receive a million email messages a week. Let's say that Operation Jewish Forgery was about as big as Microsoft is. They would have needed approximately as many communications as Microsoft does.

Let's say that about half of those were oral, and that they succeeded in burning 99.9% of the written ones. That leaves about 500,000 written communications between the members of this fantasy Operation Jewish Forgery. And, counting the survivors who'd been briefed on their stories, the Nazis who were paid off to go along with the whole thing, and the forgers themselves, I figure there were something like 20,000 people after the war who knew about Operation Jewish Forgery.

500,000 documents, and 20,000 witnesses. As a very rough guess.

Here's my question to you, "revisionist scholars."

Where are they?

Where are all these documents of the forgery? Where are all the witnesses to this scam operation? Oh sure, we understand that you think most Jews are such liars and cheats that, even if they weren't briefed on the "Holohoax," they'd go along with it anyway just to get money for Israel. But would all Jews go along with the story? Wouldn't you think that somewhere, maybe, there would be a few honest Jews who would admit that they'd been pulling the wool over our eyes?

Where are they?

Or is this some insane conspiracy theory, where the very lack of evidence only proves how insidious the conspirators were?

These pieces of paper, the one in a thousand that hypothetically survived. They must be scattered throughout Eastern Europe, little scraps of paper that say things like "Dear Isaac -- please don't forget to leak Document 495B-14 to the London Times on August 13, as we agreed. Signed, Abraham."

Where are they?

Show me anything. I want one memo between members of Operation Jewish Forgery, one written piece of evidence that something went on. I want one inmate of Auschwitz to come forward and said that there was no gassing going on, that it was a big hoax. (Christophersen and Stäglich come closest, but they were, as they admit, nowhere near the gas chambers: they were interned in different subcamps. Christophersen was growing dandelions a mile away from Birkenau. Did anyone get in touch with them after the war and tell them to lie about what they saw? Of course not; they never say any such thing.)

I don't insist of having a top-of-the-line smoking gun, the one document that proves not only the conspiracy but exactly what it was doing. I just want some corroborating evidence, even a little bit.

I'm not talking about a report about Rudolf Höss being beaten up. Nobody is surprised that accused war criminals were often mistreated by their captors. But if I'm supposed to believe he was tortured, and his family threatened, in order to make him tell a specific story -- how about something from the conspirators who organized the beating? How about a document sent to, from, or about his family? How about anything that will verify, or even hint at, the existence of the conspirators?

I don't think I'm out of line in asking for one little detail about how this huge forging operation was carried out. Not when Mr. Berg makes demands on his opponents like:

Surely, the hatemongers can tell us something about those monstrously amazing Diesels-of-Death. Surely, from their "mountains" of "eyewitness testimony" they can tell us whether the Diesels were outside in the open, or inside the vehicles (tank or truck or whatever), or inside a room. Surely, they can tell us whether they were V-12 or inline-sixes or whatever -- whether they were connected to something like a huge fan or bonecrusher or something. These Diesels were, supposedly, the greatest mass murder devices in the entire history of the world -- and we don't even have a picture.

If Mr. Berg feels it acceptable to ask me how many cylinders a Nazi engine had, I don't think it's out of line for me to ask him (and Greg Raven, and Bradley Smith, and Ernst Zündel, and whoever else wants to try answering):

Give me one piece of documentation, or one testimony, that serves as evidence for this alleged massive hoax, this insane conspiracy theory.

Just one.


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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jan 10, 2007 10:43 am)

What 'McCarthy' is trying to do is turn logic and standards of jurisprudence upside down.

They make claims of gassings and extermination, but can produce nothing that isn't debunked with ease. The onus is upon them to produce proof for there claims, they cannot.

a few brief points:
I ask them where are the physical remains of this '11-12,000,000'?
Why is that the alleged gassing process defies laws of science.
Where are the truly enormous mass graves they allege?
Where are the authentic German documents which support their case?
Where is the budget for the alleged operations?
Where are the orders?
Where are the manpower manifests and requisitions for them.
Where did the alleged fuel come from for the wacked out cremation claims.
Why don't the aerial photos show what is alleged?
Why were some aerial photos conclusively tampered with?
Why is it necessary to arrest those who scrutinize the claims? Actually, we know why.

And yes, we have exposed many forgeries. No one ever said "every bit of it forged" (typical judeo-supremacist strawman), they did. What the liars have done is is apply ridiculous 'translations', interpretations', and laughable claims of 'code words' when in reality the document said nothing like what is claimed by judeo-supremacist profit making 'scholars; 'transport' = 'gassed', 'deportation' = 'extermination', etc.
And the einsatzgruppen reports? Forged/altered to the max, there's no graves that are alleged to support the forgeries, check out posts at this forum.

Who employed the forgers? Easy. The communists, the Allies who benefited by covering up their very real atrocities. The various Jewish/Zionist agencies who needed an excuse to steal 'Israel' and saw a potentional money making scam in 'reparations'. Follow the money on 'who'.

Hoess? The torturers themselves have admitted they tortured him. What is in his 'confessions' reads like a coerced 'confessions' (we have them here), is patently ridiculous, and is not even accepted today by True Believers.

Who are the hoaxers? Well, let's start with the laughable lying 'eyewitnesses'. Not a single one of then can make a sober case for gas chambers, we've demolished every one we've looked into. Every single one. As for who was first, well anyone can compile the dates and simply take the earliest one if they wish. A real yawner. Being an 'eyewitness/survivor' is a profitable career. Follow the money on 'who'.

What trials does Mc Carthy refer to? Where are the transcripts? Where are the cross examinations? What did 'eyewitnesses' say in court? Anything like reknowned 'holocaust historian' Hillberg who was sliced and diced at the Zundel trial? Oops. And how many 'eyewitnesses' actually appeared in court, or were mere paper 'statements' presented? Hmm.

What this McCarthy nutjob is doing is making the 'overwhelming 'evidence' claim. He doesn't want each piece scrutinized. When anyone examines each piece of this garbage in, garbage out affair we end up with a fraud that is thoroughly exposed and simply cannot withstand rational examination.

This is too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jan 10, 2007 11:31 am)

Hannover hits the nail on the head. The problem is the burden of proof which they are trying to shift from themselves to the revisionists.

I like Bradley Smith's idea. When they start the discussion by saying that we say that "the Holocaust didn't happen" we should first respond by demanding that they establish what they mean by "the Holocaust". That some Jews were persecuted by the Nazis? Well I for one agree on that. That some Jews died during the war? Agreed. That they were killed in gas chambers? No, I don't agree but I'm willing to discuss the evidence...are you?

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 4 years ago (Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:01 pm)

Surely if people were employed to fabricate mountains of evidence Actually there is no real evidence other than the confessions of the totured guards, some make believe gas chambers and some stupid lying eye-witnesses, fooled the world, surely a few names and places must be a minor feat for such geniuses.

Barry Shein, 1994

The Holocaust-deniers, or "revisionists" if they prefer that term, say that the Holocaust never happened. To be precise, they insist that the Nazis never had a plan or policy to try to kill approximately eleven million civilians that they didn't like, about half of whom were Jewish. Not having that as an intention, then, of course, they also did not put it into action. In particular, they didn't have any gas chambers or gas vans.

So how was the world led to believe that something called a "Holocaust" happened in the middle of this century? The same way some people believed in WMD. Well, it's all a big hoax, we're told, in books with titles like The Hoax of the Twentieth Century. We're being scammed. We're being fooled. You got that right. There were no WMD either.
But hoaxes don't form spontaneously. Says who? A hoax implies a hoaxer. Quite true. The benefactors of the scam are the Zionists who have blacked-mailed billions out of Germany, and, of course the Allies,who used it to cover their own crimes of WW2, There are no scams without scam artists.

What are we really being told? Let's look at the world through their eyes, let's look at things from this fantasy point of view.
Starting in 1942, the Jews began circulating rumors that they were all being killed. These rumors filtered through various news agencies, from various sources. How true. The same or similar rumours were spread about WW1 and probably every war ever fought. Do you remember the stories of the Iraqi soldiers killing newborns? The WW2 rumours included death by electricity, drowning , tank emission (carbon dioxide), X-rays, fire pits, machine guns
( Babi Yar) until the public “bought “ the gassing story.
By 1945, the Jews had forged tens of thousands of Nazi documents, all "proving" that the Nazis had committed mass murder. In actual fact they haven’t found any documents at all amongst the tons of captured Nazi documents. This is one the many major problems with the holocaust. The Jews invented the whole thing in a whirlwind effort. True. This it is why it is so scientifically, logically and mathematically silly and so easy to disprove. They invented the places where the gassings took place. They researched and invented the techniques that were used. No research was done. This is why, for example, they thought that bodies could be cremated without fuel, or why tank emissions, carbon dioxide, could kill. They forged photographs and wove them into the documentary record. There are no photos of gassed bodies, or of even one body. All the horrible photos are obviously those of victims of disease and maybe starvation, but certainly not of gas.
Their Jewish chemists figured out which perfectly ordinary buildings would be palmed off as gas chambers. They forged reports of how well the gassing operations were going. No one has ever been able to explain how the gas got into the so-called gas room (unless you are stupid enough to believe the old shower story) nor, just as importantly, how it got out. They forged reports to Hitler saying that the Eastern territories were free of Jews. The Eastern territories were never Juden-free- immediately after the war the Jews of Eastern and Central Europe ran Stalin’s death camps for the German Nationals (read John Sack) and actually took over the running of many of Stalin’ captured countries such as Poland, Hungary and others. After the war millions of Jews were kept in camps all throughout Europe by the Zionists before they were either sent to Palestine or escaped to America, Australia, Great Britain, South Africa, Argentina (how ironic) and so on.

They forged inventories of the morgues, saying there were showerheads and gas-tight doors in them. They forged the whole story about SS guards being taken to a special camp to get them used to the idea of killing Jews. You said it. Document is the wrong word- I think you mean stupid lies.
Everything, every bit of it, forged.

In article <31clre>, Friedrich Berg briefly discusses this fantasy forgery whirlwind:

Practically every scrap of such evidence is a postwar fabrication, fabricated by people who had been employed primarily to generate such "evidence" since there was absolutely no other evidence to begin with.

"People who had been employed primarily to generate such 'evidence.'"

Who was the employer?

How many employees were there?

I work at a fairly small company; my department is about ten people. We don't try to do nearly as much as these fantastic Jewish forgers must have.

I mean, those guys must have been productive! Draftspeople to forge plans for the buildings, chemists to decide how the Nazis would have done the killing, authors to write fake diaries of the Sonderkommando and bury them at Auschwitz (to remain undiscovered for decades) ... voice talent and audio engineers to forge Himmler's hours-long Poznan speeches, writers to decide who would have written what memos to whom, and the typists -- good heavens, can you imagine the number of typists the whole Operation Jewish Forgery would have required!? They literally had to forge the entire workings of a small but significant part of the German government for four or five years. You’d be amazed at the stupid stories people can make up if there is money to be made. And, let’s fact it. The holocaust is a billion dollar year business if one includes all the movies, books, blackmail money, and so it generates every year. Every year hundreds of thousands of budding authors and actors flood to Hollywood. They don’t have to be invited.

Right down to the endless pages detailing which military groups took which positions and how many Jews they killed, rows and rows of small numbers, tabulated, formulated. They must have intercepted the actual routes that the Einsatzgruppen took, figured out which prisoners they took, forged documents saying that they'd executed all the Jews, and then inserted the forgeries into the appropriate places. Wow. That's a lot of work. Hundreds of Einsatzgruppen reports to forge. And that's just the Einsatzgruppen, that's just a million or so murders to report. Multiply that times ten, that's the scale we're talking. The actual number of Jews who died in Auschwitz was well know during the war since the British had broken the German code and could hear the reports every night. The total number of deaths was about 75, 000, most of them by disease, of which a little less than half were Jews. This has been covered up for about 60 years but the truth is gradually leaking out, ever since the USSR has collapsed. However the hoaxters just made up stories to agree with 6 million dead.

Somehow the Jews got their Jew agents to be there when this forged evidence was presented to Hoess and Broad and Kremer and all the dozens of Nazis tried in 1945 and 1946. All of them must have had the same initial reaction: "what!? I never wrote that!?" but the Jew agents, of course, slapped them around a bit until they admitted it was true. And the Jew agents were very good, because every single one of them admitted that it was true. Those agents must have been quite good at making Nazis admit things, because a lot of those Nazis were seasoned military men. Where'd they hire those agents from? The Nurenberg trails were much worse than even the trial and hanging of Saddam or Ann Boleyn (wife of Henry the eighth) and a disgrace to mankind. They were Zionist show trials. The Czar, his wife, his son and his daughters got a better break from the Jewish led communists than the Nazi did at Nuremberg.

They found a few thousand Jews who were willing to lie through their teeth and say that Auschwitz was an extermination camp, not a concentration camp. They must have held a big meeting, gathered all the survivors together, and briefed them. "OK," the Head Jew would have said, "repeat after me: Auschwitz was not a nice place to live. You did not go swimming at Auschwitz. Auschwitz used its morgues to gas people. In the summer of 1944 they burned bodies in ditches. Everyone on the left, you actually saw people being led to the gas chambers. You on the right, you did not, but you heard a lot about it." And so on. Actually after the war many Jews, even in Israel, tried to tell the truth about Auschwitz and they were either murdered, beaten or threatened to shut up. No one tried to organize the hoax as you suggest for it was too silly for anyone to believe. That is why the stories are so contradictory. Once the hoaxters realized they could pull off this great hoax, they went wild and the rest is history.

All in all, the survivors did a good job of remembering their instructions. Sure, some of them went overboard and started talking about huge clouds of smoke billowing out of the crematories when it was actually pretty smoke-free. In fact these minor slip-ups would be the only way that, decades later, revisionists would deduce that they were lying. So overall, they all stuck to their story remarkably well. No they didn’t. It has taken 60 years for the story to reach any kind of an agreement about even the most basic events that “happened” and they are still trying to white wash the truly stupid stories, all of which have been proven to be lies; Babi Yar, I was a Nazi doctor of Auschwitz and so on..

And then they did the same thing over and over, for the trials in the 1950s and 1960s. Even for trails that took place in Germany, the Jewish agents found a way to torture innocent German defendants in German jail cells into confessing, before a German court, to crimes they didn't commit.

Most crafty of all, the Jews didn't forge documents that would provide hard links from Hitler to the gas chambers. They refused to forge a "Führer Order" that would indict Hitler. They pretended the gassings were cloaked in secrecy, so they forged documents that spoke only in code-words, and then other documents to link the code-words to murder.

Rather than forge an inventory of the gas chamber in which it was called a "gas chamber," they forged an inventory for a morgue which listed 17 showerheads -- and then let it remain undiscovered for years until researchers realized its importance!

The ultimate in sneaky!

My department at my company generates a lot of paperwork. We don't magically all agree how we're going to approach a task, and then simply do it -- I wish it worked that way, but it doesn't! Working together requires constant communication. We have meetings all the time; sometimes it seems like I spend entire days doing nothing but meeting and talking about when next to meet and sending notes about future meetings and photocopying proposals. And my department, from what I hear, is small potatoes for bureaucracy, we're remarkably informal.


This whole Jewish-forgery operation must have generated a lot of paperwork as well. How many people must it have taken to do all this? Fifty people? Hell, they'd need fifty typists. A hundred? A thousand? Once it became known that a fortune could be made out of the Holohoax, the stories came in by the thousands. Most of them were immediately dismissed as crap. The best stories became world wide best sellers- and then , one by one, they were all proven to be lies. But they had achieved their purpose- they spread the myth. It is really amazing what an organization can accomplish it they control the media - especially in America, and especially when they force almost every country in the world to suppress the truth with anti -holocaust laws and imprison the truth tellers.

No, a lot more than that. There are literally truckloads of documentation, and forging the documentation is easy compared to delivering it to the right places, and figuring out who did what, what to forge, and who to falsely accuse, and making all of it fit together.

Making it all fit is the toughest part. The false can't contradict the true documents in the record, and has to have corroborating documents as well. For every document showing a nugget of direct implication, there must be a dozen that relate indirectly, and a hundred other documents have to be checked and cross-checked to verify everything fits.

Ten thousand people, maybe?

And here I'll drop the fantasy-italics, because here's where the fantasy meets the reality. I'm told that Microsoft employees send and receive a million email messages a week. Let's say that Operation Jewish Forgery was about as big as Microsoft is. They would have needed approximately as many communications as Microsoft does.

Let's say that about half of those were oral, and that they succeeded in burning 99.9% of the written ones. That leaves about 500,000 written communications between the members of this fantasy Operation Jewish Forgery. And, counting the survivors who'd been briefed on their stories, the Nazis who were paid off to go along with the whole thing, and the forgers themselves, I figure there were something like 20,000 people after the war who knew about Operation Jewish Forgery.

500,000 documents, and 20,000 witnesses. As a very rough guess.

Here's my question to you, "revisionist scholars."

Where are they?

Where are all these documents of the forgery? Where are all the witnesses to this scam operation? Oh sure, we understand that you think most Jews are such liars and cheats that, even if they weren't briefed on the "Holohoax," they'd go along with it anyway just to get money for Israel. But would all Jews go along with the story? Wouldn't you think that somewhere, maybe, there would be a few honest Jews who would admit that they'd been pulling the wool over our eyes?

Where are they?

Or is this some insane conspiracy theory, where the very lack of evidence only proves how insidious the conspirators were?

These pieces of paper, the one in a thousand that hypothetically survived. They must be scattered throughout Eastern Europe, little scraps of paper that say things like "Dear Isaac -- please don't forget to leak Document 495B-14 to the London Times on August 13, as we agreed. Signed, Abraham."

Where are they?

Show me anything. I want one memo between members of Operation Jewish Forgery, one written piece of evidence that something went on. I want one inmate of Auschwitz to come forward and said that there was no gassing going on, that it was a big hoax. (Christophersen and Stäglich come closest, but they were, as they admit, nowhere near the gas chambers: they were interned in different subcamps. Christophersen was growing dandelions a mile away from Birkenau. Did anyone get in touch with them after the war and tell them to lie about what they saw? Of course not; they never say any such thing.)

I don't insist of having a top-of-the-line smoking gun, the one document that proves not only the conspiracy but exactly what it was doing. I just want some corroborating evidence, even a little bit.

I'm not talking about a report about Rudolf Höss being beaten up. Nobody is surprised that accused war criminals were often mistreated by their captors. But if I'm supposed to believe he was tortured, and his family threatened, in order to make him tell a specific story -- how about something from the conspirators who organized the beating? How about a document sent to, from, or about his family? How about anything that will verify, or even hint at, the existence of the conspirators?

I don't think I'm out of line in asking for one little detail about how this huge forging operation was carried out. Not when Mr. Berg makes demands on his opponents like:

Surely, the hatemongers can tell us something about those monstrously amazing Diesels-of-Death. Surely, from their "mountains" of "eyewitness testimony" they can tell us whether the Diesels were outside in the open, or inside the vehicles (tank or truck or whatever), or inside a room. Surely, they can tell us whether they were V-12 or inline-sixes or whatever -- whether they were connected to something like a huge fan or bonecrusher or something. These Diesels were, supposedly, the greatest mass murder devices in the entire history of the world -- and we don't even have a picture.

If Mr. Berg feels it acceptable to ask me how many cylinders a Nazi engine had, I don't think it's out of line for me to ask him (and Greg Raven, and Bradley Smith, and Ernst Zündel, and whoever else wants to try answering):

Give me one piece of documentation, or one testimony, that serves as evidence for this alleged massive hoax, this insane conspiracy theory.

Just one. Your argument is one of the best ones I have read about that shoots down the gassing myth- not the other way around. It should be obvious to anyone who has read any of the literature supporting the myth of gassing that it was not organized at first at all. That’s is why the holocaust stories are all so wild, so divergent, so illogical, and are so scientifically and mathematically impossible. Most, if not all of the story-tellers and their ghost writers, were liars. On the other hand , a gassing operation that killed millions, would have to have been very well organized and, to use your argument, have left a paper trial a mile wide. It didn’t leave anything. No trial, no gas.
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby driansmith » 1 decade 4 years ago (Thu Jan 11, 2007 8:46 pm)

My research has established that there were multiple documentation fabrication centres, not one centre, and that it was a loosely co-ordinated, not tightly co-ordinated conspiracy, because a lot of material had to be generated for different purposes. I obviously don't have time to go into all that now and I still have many leads to follow up but for now I want to response to this passage:

'I want one inmate of Auschwitz to come forward and said that there was no gassing going on, that it was a big hoax.' [great grammar there!]

There is such a candidate - Bruno Baum (1910-71). Here are my notes on Baum:

The German-Jewish Communist Bruno Baum, who was sentenced to ten years imprisonment for anti-government activity in 1935 - together with Erich Honecker, later president of Communist East Germany - and who was transferred to Auschwitz from Brandenburg prison in 1943, was, by his own admission, one of the most active fabricators of camp propaganda. On July 31, 1945, he wrote in Deutsche Volkszeitung, the Soviet paper in occupied East Germany, that ‘The whole propaganda which started about Auschwitz abroad was initiated by us [German communist inmates] with the help of our Polish comrades.”’

Juergen Graf: ‘After the end of the war, Baum wrote his memoirs [Widerstand in Auschwitz], which appeared in three different editions (published in 1949, 1957, 1961). The first edition, published in 1949, states as follows on page 34: “It is no exaggeration when I say that the majority of all Auschwitz propaganda, which was spread at that time all over the world, was written by ourselves in the camp.” One page later, Baum raises the ante: “"We carried out this propaganda in [for] the world public until our very last day of presence in Auschwitz.” Baum thus generously admits that the reports were resistance movement "propaganda".

Obviously, such an admission was problematic for the Soviets, so in the next edition, published in 1957, he tones it down a bit, stating: “It is no exaggeration when I say that the greatest part of the publications on Auschwitz spread all over the world originated from ourselves [...] We informed the world in this manner until the very last day of our stay in Auschwitz.” (p. 89) Thus, "propaganda" became "publications," by means of which the world was "informed"! Baum was transferred from Auschwitz to Mauthausen, where he assiduously continued his propaganda activity in the local camp resistance movement.’

Interestingly, the German Wikipedia page on Baum quotes this passage from the 1962 [in fact, 1961] edition of Widerstand in Auschwitz, making an appropriate mention of 'Holocaust deniers,' the implication being that the 'deniers' have misrepresented Baum. Clearly, the original (1949) text - which the Wikipedia author lists in his bibliography of Baum's writings - would have been harder to use in this way.

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Postby Rapier » 1 decade 4 years ago (Fri Jan 12, 2007 3:34 am)

Hoax? What revisionist calls the Holocaust a hoax? The Holocaust is a time in history aggrandized for monetary and political gain for Jewish interests.

An event now fortified by exaggerations and lies. An monolithic urban legend in progress supported by many hundreds of outrageous individual urban legends.




Jamie McCarthy wrote:I mean, those guys must have been productive! Draftspeople to forge plans for the buildings, chemists to decide how the Nazis would have done the killing, authors to write fake diaries of the Sonderkommando and bury them at Auschwitz (to remain undiscovered for decades) ... voice talent and audio engineers to forge Himmler's hours-long Poznan speeches, writers to decide who would have written what memos to whom, and the typists -- good heavens, can you imagine the number of typists the whole Operation Jewish Forgery would have required!? They literally had to forge the entire workings of a small but significant part of the German government for four or five years.

Right down to the endless pages detailing which military groups took which positions and how many Jews they killed, rows and rows of small numbers, tabulated, formulated. They must have intercepted the actual routes that the Einsatzgruppen took, figured out which prisoners they took, forged documents saying that they'd executed all the Jews, and then inserted the forgeries into the appropriate places. Wow. That's a lot of work. Hundreds of Einsatzgruppen reports to forge. And that's just the Einsatzgruppen, that's just a million or so murders to report. Multiply that times ten, that's the scale we're talking.


The above parody of how much effort and cooperation documenting and fabricating a Holocaust hoax would involve is ironic, as the true weakness of the Holocaust myth is the tremendous amount of manpower and resources Germany would have had to devote to the extermination of over 10 million civilians. Manpower and resources previously assigned to the war effort.

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:20 am)

driansmith wrote:Juergen Graf: ‘After the end of the war, Baum wrote his memoirs [Widerstand in Auschwitz], which appeared in three different editions (published in 1949, 1957, 1961). The first edition, published in 1949, states as follows on page 34: “It is no exaggeration when I say that the majority of all Auschwitz propaganda, which was spread at that time all over the world, was written by ourselves in the camp.” One page later, Baum raises the ante: “"We carried out this propaganda in [for] the world public until our very last day of presence in Auschwitz.” Baum thus generously admits that the reports were resistance movement "propaganda".

Obviously, such an admission was problematic for the Soviets, so in the next edition, published in 1957, he tones it down a bit, stating: “It is no exaggeration when I say that the greatest part of the publications on Auschwitz spread all over the world originated from ourselves [...] We informed the world in this manner until the very last day of our stay in Auschwitz.” (p. 89) Thus, "propaganda" became "publications," by means of which the world was "informed"! Baum was transferred from Auschwitz to Mauthausen, where he assiduously continued his propaganda activity in the local camp resistance movement.’

Interestingly, the German Wikipedia page on Baum quotes this passage from the 1962 [in fact, 1961] edition of Widerstand in Auschwitz, making an appropriate mention of 'Holocaust deniers,' the implication being that the 'deniers' have misrepresented Baum. Clearly, the original (1949) text - which the Wikipedia author lists in his bibliography of Baum's writings - would have been harder to use in this way.


This is all true, and I have seen the misleading German-language Wiki page. I own a copy of the 1949 edition of this book and I will scan and post it online in its entirety as soon as I can.

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Postby NovyMir » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Oct 05, 2007 7:58 pm)

This "Jamie McCarthy" thing is pathetic. It's all based on hot-air. Period. It is demagogery, by trying to tap into the emotions of the uninformed and lazyminded(the sheep), and attempting to express how incredible and outrageous "revisionism" is; something a good sheep should stay away from.
First they give them something to feel superior about(they are "normal" (sheep), then they instill the fear element, fear of WHAT OTHERS MIGHT THINK OF THEM!!!! There's a passive-agressive element too.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Oct 06, 2007 3:24 pm)

I want one inmate of Auschwitz to come forward and said that there was no gassing going on, that it was a big hoax.


As far as I know the most (in)famous inmate that does not mention gassings is Eli Weasel.

Another witness for no gassings is the journalist in "The Prawda", that wrote about mass murder by electricity one weak after the Auschwitz occupation by the asiatic hordes (J. Djugashvili).

The third I should mention are the reports of the International Red Cross.

Last but not least we should write about the communistic inmate that admitted war atrocity propaganda in various versions over time. He admitted that the gas chamber stories are war time propaganda.

Is McCarthy aware of this stuff?
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin


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