Is the war declaration a forgery?

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ClaudiaRothenbach
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Is the war declaration a forgery?

Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Jan 13, 2007 1:55 pm)

Irving states on his home page:

In his book Der europäische Bürgerkrieg, indeed, Nolte even took over standard theses from the Holocaust deniers, including the (demonstrably false) allegation that the Jews declared war on Germany in 1939 and therefore Hitler was justified in 'interning' them in concentration camps.


Irving refers to the Daily Express issue from March 24, 1933:

Image

Is the 1933 issue a forgery?

What about 1939? Could he mean the Weizman letter?
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Jan 13, 2007 9:28 pm)

Irving uses a strawman argument.
I know of no 'holocaust deniers' who claim Hitler was justified in 'interning' them in concentration camps.

However, we do to need to ask what justification Roosevelt and Americans used in interning Japanese-Americans in concentration camps in the US.

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Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 6:38 am)

The Americans weren't the only ones that incarcerated "enemy aliens". The same happened in Canada and England. On St Helen's island in Montreal there was a center which held German Canadians and even citizens deemed to be sympatheitic to the German or Italian cause. The Mayor of Montreal Camile Houde was incarcerated there during the war for sending Benito Mussolini a white horse before hostilities started. Go figure.
Last edited by Mannstein on Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 7:46 am)

Are there any hints that the above posted facsimile of the Daily Express from Mar 24, 1933 is a forgery?
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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 8:43 am)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:Are there any hints that the above posted facsimile of the Daily Express from Mar 24, 1933 is a forgery?


Absolutely not. Irving is not even refering to the Daily Express item.

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Postby Gertrud » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:32 pm)

It's not even Irving himself, it's Richard Evans, quoted at length on Irving's website.
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Legal/Penguin/expe ... Nolte.html

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jan 17, 2007 12:13 am)

Gertrud is correct, it is clearly attributed to Evans. Irving added the newspaper image from 1933 as a taunt to 'Skunky' Evans.
ImageRichard Evans:

"In his book Der europäische Bürgerkrieg, indeed, Nolte even took over standard theses from the Holocaust deniers, including the (demonstrably false) allegation that the Jews declared war on Germany in 1939 and therefore Hitler was justified in 'interning' them in concentration camps."

Image

ClaudiaRothenbach, please be more careful in the future.

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:56 am)

Moderator wrote:ClaudiaRothenbach, please be more careful in the future.

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I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

Irvings page is a bit mistakeble. He cites Evans on a war declaration from 1939 (which was a Weizman letter) and posts a facsimile of a newspaper from 1933 with a war declaration.

On the other hand I read an interesting thing in an essay of Georg Wiesholler (who is a frequent author in Germar Rudolf's VffG). He was interrogated by a policeman because of his revisionistic work. Durig this interrogation Wiesholler mentioned the Daily Express issue from Mar 24, 1933. The policeman told him that the issue is a forgery. Wiesholler wrote that he did not argue against that statement (because he was not able to disprove it during the interrogation) but cited other statements from Baruch and Untermeyer from 1933 that are even worse.

So my question:
Does this Daily Express issue with the war declaration really exist?
Or - is it forged?
"Everything has already been said, but not yet by everyone." - Karl Valentin

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Postby Reinhard » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jan 17, 2007 2:16 pm)

@ Claudia:

The Daily Express issue you have posted above is genuine.

Former leading Spiegel journalist ("Ressortleiter für Zeitgeschichte") Heinz Höhne wrote in his book "Gebt mir vier Jahre Zeit" - Hitler und die Anfänge des Dritten Reiches [Ullstein, Berlin ²1999, pp. 110/111]:

Heinz Höhne wrote:[...] Bisher hatten sie sich mit verbalen Attacken begnügt, um Berlin zur Einstellung der judenfeindlichen Exzesse zu zwingen. Jetzt aber organisierten sie einen Boykott, der auf die schwächste Stelle von Hitlers Deutschland zielte: seine wirtschaftliche Krisenanfälligkeit.

»Ein bellum judaicum«, drohte am 13. März [1933] Joseph Tenenbaum vom American Jewish Congress, der militantesten unter den großen jüdischen Organisationen der USA, »bedeutet für Deutschland Boykott, Untergang und Verderben, bedeutet das Ende der deutschen Hilfsquellen und das Ende aller Hoffnungen auf den Wiederaufstieg Deutschlands.«

Der Warenboykott gegen Deutschland blieb keine leere Drohung. Am 18. März beschloß die Organisation der Jewish War Veterans, alle deutschen Waren, Dienstleistungen und Schiffahrtsgesellschaften in den USA zu boykottieren, und bald folgten andere jüdische US-Organisationen. Dann schwappte die Welle nach England über, wo sich der Boykott mit dem gerade angelaufenen Werbefeldzug »Buy British« verband.

Von Tag zu Tag wuchs die Zahl der Boykotteure. In Litauen, Holland. Frankreich, Ägypten, Griechenland, Polen - überall organisierten jüdische Gemeinden und ihre Sympathisanten Käuferstreiks gegen Deutschland. Jeder Tag brachte neue Hiobsbotschaften für Berlin: Stornierung von Buchungen auf deutschen Atlantikschiffen, Zurückziehung von Aufträgen für deutsche Firmen, antideutsche Verbote in Geschäften der Londoner City, Kinoboykott in Athen.

»Boykott breitet sich weiter aus« meldete die »New York Times« am 25. März. Im Londoner »Daily Herald« erklärte ein prominenter jüdischer Vertreter, der Boykott habe bereits »den deutschen Außenhandel um Hunderttausende von Pfund Sterling geschädigt« - die Beobachter in den deutschen Botschaften und Konsulaten sahen es kaum anders.

Je deutlicher sich aber ein Erfolg des Boykotts abzeichnete, desto aggressiver reagierten die Anführer der judenfeindlichen Kampagne in Deutschland. Sie propagierten einen »Gegenboykott«, wobei sich wiederum maßgebliche Funktionäre des Kampfbundes hervortaten. In ihren Büros lagen schon die Listen und Pläne für größere Aktionen bereit, darunter auch ein reichsweiter Boykott aller jüdischen Geschäfte und Warenhäuser.

Die judenfeindliche NS-Fraktion, in der sich nun der fränkische Gauleiter Julius Streicher, der wohl rabiateste Antisemit der Partei, immer mehr nach vorn spielte, drängte Hitler zu einem Schlag gegen den jüdischen Wirtschaftseinfluß im Reich. Durch eine Art Geiselnahme des deutschen Judentums, so argumentierte sie, lasse sich das »Weltjudentum« und seine Kritik am nationalsozialistischen Deutschland ein für allemal zum Schweigen bringen.

Jäh geriet Hitler, von den Boykottnachrichten aus dem Ausland ohnehin bereits in Panikstimmung versetzt, unter den Druck der antisemitischen Ultras. Als schließlich am 26. März im Reich durch Diplomatenberichte ruchbar wurde, daß der American Jewish Congress am nächsten Tag auf einer Massenkundgebung in New York den Weltboykott gegen Deutschland ausrufen werde, verlor Hitler völlig die Nerven.

Noch am gleichen Tag rief er Goebbels zu sich auf den Obersalzberg.
Was die beiden Männer miteinander erörterten, ist im Detail nicht bekannt, nur der fatale Beschluß, der dabei fiel: permanenter Boykott aller jüdischen Geschäfte, Warenhäuser, Anwaltskanzleien und Arztpraxen durch die NSDAP, beginnend am 1. April.

Hitler überließ Goebbels die propagandistische Vorbereitung der Aktion. Der Minister verfaßte einen »Aufruf der nationalsozialistischen Parteileitung«, den Hitler am Nachmittag des 27. März billigte, ehe der Text in allen Zeitungen stand. Er rief dazu auf, im ganzen Reich »Aktionskomitees« zu bilden, die jedes jüdische Unternehmen boykottieren sollten, um den »Lügen und Verleumdungen von geradezu haarsträubender Perversität« ein Ende zu machen.

Schon am 30. März konnte Goebbels notieren: »Der Boykott ist in der Organisation fertig. Wir brauchen jetzt nur auf den Knopf zu drücken, dann läuft er an.« Die Organisation lag freilich nicht in seiner, sondern in Streichers Hand, der inzwischen mit dreizehn anderen Spitzenfunktionären der Partei ein »Zentralkomitee zur Abwehr der jüdischen Greuel- und Boykotthetze« aufgestellt hatte.

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Postby Kobus » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jan 17, 2007 6:34 pm)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:So my question:
Does this Daily Express issue with the war declaration really exist?
Or - is it forged?


In any case, there seem two circulate at least two different versions of that Daily Express issue:

http://www.biblestudysite.com/Judea%20d ... ermany.jpg
versus
http://images.indymedia.org/imc/ontario ... ermany.jpg

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jan 17, 2007 8:39 pm)

In any case, there seem two circulate at least two different versions of that Daily Express issue:

There are two.

Many papers have/had early and late daily editions.

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Postby driansmith » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Jan 20, 2007 8:43 pm)

I had wondered about this myself. However. there certainly was a Jewish anti-German boycott movement, and at least some other newspapers mentioned it. For example, The Cleveland Press: "Hitler, Facing Boycott, Hits 'Propaganda'": 'The Hitler government, confirmed yesterday as an absolute dictatorship for four years, turned its attention today to the twin problems of answering atrocity reports abroad and meeting threats of an economic boycott by Jewish business men in foreign lands ... ' - http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/fight/sfea ... is_02.html

The American Jewish Committee mentioned the boycott in its Year Book (no. 35, p. 54), indicating that it did not enjoy the support of major Jewish organisations:

‘The boycott movement began simultaneously during the last week of March [1933] in a number of countries, and eventually embraced Argentine, Czechoslovakia, Egypt, France, Great Britain, and the British Dominions, Greece, Jugoslavia, Palestine, Poland, Roumania, Syria, Tunisia, Turkey, and the United States. In some countries, particularly Great Britain and the United States, the boycott movement was not officially endorsed by the leading Jewish organizations. In the United States, the American Jewish Committee and the B’nai B’rith publicly condemned the boycott in a statement issued on April 28. In England, the movement was promoted by a new body called the World Alliance for Combatting Anti-Semitism; in the United States it was launched by the Jewish War Veterans of the United States, and was actively pushed by that body and by a new organization calling itself the American League for the Defense of Jewish Rights. The boycott was ardently advocated by Mr. Samuel Untermyer, the well-known attorney and public worker.’

The following discussion suggests that the boycott was also mentioned in Natscha Retsch and is discussed in Edward Black's book The Transfer Agreement:

‘In a similar vein, the Jewish newspaper Natscha Retsch wrote: “The war against Germany will be waged by all Jewish communities, conferences, congresses ... by every individual Jew. Thereby the war against Germany will ideologically enliven and promote our interests, which require that Germany be wholly destroyed. The danger for us Jews lies in the whole German people, in Germany as a whole as well as individually. It must be rendered harmless for all time. ... In this war we Jews have to participate, and this with all the strength and might we have at our disposal.” … The Jewish leaders were not bluffing. The boycott was an act of war not solely in metaphor: it was a means, well crafted, to destroy Germany as a political, social and economic entity. The long term purpose of the Jewish boycott against Germany was to bankrupt her with respect to the reparation payments imposed on Germany after World War I and to keep Germany demilitarized and vulnerable. The boycott, in fact, was quite crippling to Germany. Jewish scholars such as Edwin Black have reported that, in response to the boycott, German exports were cut by 10 percent, and that many were demanding seizing German assets in foreign countries (Edwin Black, The Transfer Agreement - The Untold Story of the Secret Pact between the Third Reich and Jewish Palestine, New York, 1984). - http://www.wintersonnenwende.com/script ... ecwar.html

It seems that the boycott was not widely publicised because it did not enjoy the support of the large Jewish organisations.

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