Oskar Schindler

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BradRules
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Oskar Schindler

Postby BradRules » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jul 03, 2003 10:37 pm)

http://www.pbs.org/holocaust/schindler/biography.html

Could somebody tell me why this story is a lie?

Oskar Schindler was born in 1908 in the small industrial town of Zwittau, in the Sudeten region, which was then part of the Austrian empire. His father owned a farm machinery plant and Oskar was trained to be an engineer. Although raised as a Catholic, Oskar was not religious and often played as a child with his Jewish neighbors.

A racing enthusiast, Oskar built and raced his own motorcycle. At the age of 20, he married Emilie, the quiet daughter of a gentleman farmer. Soon after their marriage, he was called into military service. Upon his release, he returned home and began working for his father. But their factory fell victim to the depression of the 1930s and Oskar moved into a job as a sales manager for an electrical company. He enjoyed his new career, in particular the traveling and meeting new people — especially women. To help him secure orders, he joined the local Nazi party.

In 1939, when Germany overran Poland, Oskar set out for Krakow to find his fortune in the profitable business of war. Through local Nazi connections, he took charge of a confiscated enamelware factory that made mess kits and field kitchenware for the German army.

Oskar settled comfortably into life in Krakow. While his wife remained in Moravia, a series of mistresses kept him company.

He prospered in Krakow, making the most of his friendships with district heads of various Nazi security forces and Amon Goeth, commandant of Plaszow, the forced labor camp nearby. The contracts he obtained through Nazi connections brought him huge profits. Oskar quickly learned how to work inside the corrupt and savage system the Nazis operated and knew how to manipulate it to his own good fortune.

His accountant Itzhak Stern encouraged him to employ Jewish workers; his personnel grew from 45 workers to more than 250 as army contracts poured in.

His affinity for the Nazi party waned as he continued to witness the sporadic raids and killings to which the Jews of Krakow were subject. Most brutal was the Nazis’ liquidation of the Krakow Jewish quarter, where Schindler saw soldiers drag families from their apartments and shoot anyone who resisted on sight. The Nazis excluded no one — including a little Jewish girl in a scarlet coat — from witnessing these sidewalk executions. Watching these killings, Schindler realized that if they were content to commit their crimes in full view of children, they must have planned to murder the witnesses as well.

Schindler then worked with Stern to protect as many Jews as possible. The workforce at Emalia, as he called his factory, burgeoned triplefold; whenever a worker at Plaszow was put in direct peril, Schindler traded a blackmarket item for that worker’s transfer to his factory.

When the Nazis’ "Final Solution" threatened Emalia itself, Schindler set up his factory in Brinnlitz, a small town on the Polish-Czechoslovakian border. He was allowed to draw up a list of "essential" Jewish workers — those from Emalia and others with special talents he deemed useful — whom he could take with him. When word spread that there was a list, everyone prayed to be on it. With the help of Itzhak Stern, he drafted a register of more than 1,100 names. Schindler and these workers waited out the war in relative safety.

Schindler lost everything he possessed at the end of the war. He was penniless. Never again did he prosper.

After the war, he and his wife emigrated to Argentina, where he took up farming. After 10 unsuccessful years, he abandoned Emilie and returned to Germany. For the remainder of his life, his "family," the Schindlerjuden, cared for him.


Is this another 1100 coconspirators and liars?

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*shaking head in pity*

Postby Braveheart » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jul 03, 2003 11:23 pm)

Could somebody tell me why this story is a lie?


*sigh* Brad, you just don't get it, do you???

You obviously have no clue what the core arguments of WWII historical revisionism are. Before continuing on this board, I suggest you read the following webpages because you are obviously on a different wave length:

http://www.revisionists.com/revisionism.html

http://vho.org/Intro/GB/

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 04, 2003 1:27 am)

No Brad, the way it works is that you should tell us why you believe in such tales.

Don't just post up a bunch of text and put the onus upon Revisionists. You're a Believer in this story, tell us why.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby BradRules » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jul 07, 2003 2:45 pm)

I believe the story because I don't believe that 1,100 people would lie. They have nothing to gain.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:27 pm)

Why would hundreds of thousands of people lie about being abducted by UFOs/aliens?
Why would thousands of people each year claim to see the Virgin Mary at sites in Mexico & France?

H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jul 07, 2003 3:32 pm)

Yes, and let's not forget how many times 'Elvis' has been spotted down the local Post Office!

I'm telling you 'It was the king, stood right before my eyes'

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby fountainhead » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:18 am)

I have a quick question. What is the revisionist position on Schindler, specifically? Honestly, all I know of him is the few bits I've read while browsing CODOH and the Spielberg movie (Which I actually think is well done as a film, just not as historical truth). But, the biography the OP posted suggests that Schindler used his factory as a safehaven for as many Jews as he could save. If there was no extermination program, what was it he was saving them from? Or, is the truth simply that Schindler wasn't really trying to save anyone from anything and that he just needed cheap labor for his factory and then the story was romanticized after the war? If so, then isn't that somewhat funny? That the guy failed so badly at being a businessman that his workers concluded he must be blowing all his money on purpose in order to save them! :lol:
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Who controls the present controls the past.

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby Breker » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:31 am)

Given that 'Schindler's List' is a novel, as in fiction, it appears difficult to sort out the real Oskar Schindler. Biographies of Schindler that I have seen are simply written as propaganda in service of the now discredited Big Lie. Any detached analysis of the film reveals a very manipulative use of lies by Spielberg, something he excels at. And since the "Holocaust" itself is in tatters the issue is in some ways irrelevant. However, we might consider looking into the author, Thomas Keneally, from whom Spielberg adapted the novel in making his very problematic film.
Here's two additional works to review which may assist.
'Schindler's List: A review' - http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v14/v14n3p-7_Raven.html
'Swindler's Mist: Spielberg's Fraud in Schindler's List' - http://codoh.com/library/document/488
B.
Revisionists are just the messengers, the impossibility of the "Holocaust" narrative is the message.

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 6:17 am)

Oskar quickly learned how to work inside the corrupt and savage system the Nazis operated and knew how to manipulate it to his own good fortune.


This, among other things, is a blatant lie. Amon Goeth, the Plazkow commandant (seen in Spielberg's movie), had been arrested by SS judge Konrad Morgen for corruption (accepting bribes) when WW2 ended.

The movie Schindler's list was based on a fictional book entitled Schindler's Ark (awarded as a fiction).

BradRules wrote:I believe the story because I don't believe that 1,100 people would lie. They have nothing to gain.


Do you really think 1,100 people were interrogated about Oskar Schindler. They were just mentioned in the fictional book Schindler's Ark. The author of that book, Thomas Keneally, interviewed 50 people and then he wrote his fictional tale.

There was never any Schindler's List in the real world. Oskar Schindler never tried to save any Jew from any imaginary "Holocaust". A corrupt Jew working for the Nazis, Marcel Goldberg (gold mountain, a very appropriate name for a corrupt Jew :wink: ), made some lists for money (bribes) and sent some Jews in "easier" camps if they could pay for that. That's all.

New York Times:
November 24, 2004

Book Adds Layers of Complexity to the Schindler Legend
By Diitia Smith

AN authoritative new biography of Oskar Schindler, the German businessman who saved more than 1,000 Jews from the Nazis, clashes sharply with his idealized portrayal in the Oscar-winning 1993 Steven Spielberg movie "Schindler's List" and the 1982 historical novel by Thomas Keneally that inspired it.

The Schindler who emerges in this latest account -- based on interviews with Holocaust survivors and newly discovered papers, including letters stored in a suitcase by a mistress -- is far more flawed than the one depicted in the movie and novel. Even so, scholars say, the fresh revelations about Schindler's darker side cast his moral transformation and heroism into starker relief.

To begin with, there was no Schindler's List.

"Schindler had almost nothing to do with the list," said David M. Crowe, a Holocaust historian and professor at Elon University in North Carolina, whose book, "Oskar Schindler: The Untold Account of His Life, Wartime Activities and the True Story Behind the List," was published this fall by Westview Press.

In the film, Schindler, played by Liam Neeson, is shown in 1944 giving the Jewish manager of his enamelware and arms factory in Krakow, Poland, the names of Jewish workers to be taken to the relative safety of what is now the Czech Republic. But at the time, Mr. Crowe said in a telephone interview, Schindler was in jail for bribing Amon Göth, the brutal SS commandant played by Ralph Fiennes in the film. And the manager, Itzhak Stern (Ben Kingsley), was not even working for Schindler then.

Mr. Crowe said that there were nine lists. The first four were drawn up primarily by Marcel Goldberg, a corrupt Jewish security police officer and assistant to an SS officer in charge of transporting Jews. (Goldberg was later accused of accepting bribes and of favoritism.) Schindler suggested a few names, Mr. Crowe said, but did not know most of the people on the lists. The authors of the other five lists are unknown.

Mr. Crowe said the legend of "the list" arose partly from Schindler himself, to embellish his heroism. He was trying to win reparations for his wartime losses, and Yad Vashem, the Jewish Holocaust memorial organization in Jerusalem, was considering naming him a "righteous gentile," an honor given to someone who risked death to save Jews.

[...]

There were also rumors, briefly mentioned in the book and film, that after Schindler moved to Krakow in 1939 as a carpetbagger following the Nazi invasion, he stole Jewish property and ordered Jews beaten. Although the charges were unproven, Mr. Crowe discovered that Yad Vashem was so concerned that it delayed designating Schindler a righteous gentile. The film's epilogue says Schindler was named in 1958, 16 years before his death in 1974. But Mr. Crowe found that he was officially named in 1993, after Yad Vashem learned that Schindler's widow, Emilie, who also behaved heroically, was coming to Jerusalem to participate in the film. Both received the honor, he posthumously.

There are many books about Schindler, including accounts by survivors and Emilie's memoirs, but Mr. Crowe's is the first comprehensive biography to draw on newly available records. Mr. Crowe is a member of the education committee of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington, and the author of a history of the Gypsies of Russia and Eastern Europe.

He dismissed some scenes in the film and book that are part of Schindler's legend. For instance, in the film Schindler is shown riding with his mistress on Lasota Hill in Krakow and watching the clearing of the ghetto in March 1943, when he sees a little girl seeking shelter. The scene depicts Schindler's moral awakening, but Mr. Crowe called it "totally fictitious." He said that it would have been impossible to see that part of the ghetto from the hill, and that Schindler never saw the girl.

[...]

Mr. Keneally, who interviewed 50 survivors and used available archives for his novel, said it was understandable that Mr. Spielberg and the screenwriter Steven Zaillian would take dramatic license with some events.

[...]

"It does neither an injustice to the novel, the film or to history to say that the story is more complex," he said.

[...]

In the film, Schindler gives a speech and breaks into tears because he did not do more. But Mr. Crowe obtained a transcript in which Schindler, always a wily pragmatist, also reminded the Jews of how much he had done for them, possibly to protect himself from prosecution for war crimes.

After the war Schindler was a failure. He squandered money given to him by the American Jewish Joint Distribution Committee and moved to Argentina, where he attempted to breed nutria. He then returned to Germany and bought a concrete factory, where workers attacked him for saving Jews during the war. That factory went bankrupt. Schindler continued drinking, and begged Jews he had saved to help him financially. He died from alcoholism and heavy smoking, Mr. Crowe said.

"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby Landulf » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:40 am)

According to my knowledge, I saw an documentary episode where they showed Schindlers list. And that was at the Arolsen archive.

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:54 am)

Landulf wrote:According to my knowledge, I saw an documentary episode where they showed Schindlers list. And that was at the Arolsen archive.


Golberg's List, you mean? :twisted:
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby Landulf » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:14 am)

No, not Goldberg. Schindler go to 01:30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qB-OLeFyT8

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby hermod » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:54 am)

Landulf wrote:No, not Goldberg. Schindler go to 01:30. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qB-OLeFyT8


Where is the evidence that was Schindler's list? I didn't even see his name on it. And even if his name was on it, that wouldn't mean it wasn't one of Golberg's lists. I guess Golberg put the name of the German administering those laborers, and not his Jewish-sounding name, on his lists.
"But, however the world pretends to divide itself, there are ony two divisions in the world to-day - human beings and Germans. – Rudyard Kipling, The Morning Post (London), June 22, 1915

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby borjastick » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:02 pm)

Of course a copy of the 'list' was put up for sale last year on Ebay. They wanted a staggering $3,000,000 and didn't get it. I am not sure who drew this list up, Schindler or someone working on his behalf or maybe he wasn't involved at all.

Odd thing on this list is the date - 10/4/1945. Can't explain that one I'm afraid maybe someone else can.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/30/schindler ... n-3904731/

Double post in error.
Last edited by borjastick on Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

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Re: Oskar Schindler

Postby borjastick » 5 years 9 months ago (Mon Feb 10, 2014 12:06 pm)

Of course a copy of the 'list' was put up for sale last year on Ebay. They wanted a staggering $3,000,000 and didn't get it. I am not sure who drew this list up, Schindler or someone working on his behalf or maybe he wasn't involved at all.

Odd thing on this list is the date - 10/4/1945. Can't explain that one I'm afraid maybe someone else can.

http://metro.co.uk/2013/07/30/schindler ... n-3904731/
'Of the four million Jews under Nazi control in WW2, six million died and alas only five million survived.'

'We don't need evidence, we have survivors' - israeli politician


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