The death of Edith Stein

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Kobus
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The death of Edith Stein

Postby Kobus » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:07 am)

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The death of the catholic saint Edith Stein is somewhat mysterious. According to the Vatican, she was deported from the Netherlands in the morning of August 7th, 1942. She arrived at Auschwitz on August 9th, and was gassed that same day. However, no witnesses or documents proving the gassing are provided. Therefore, other sources are less confirmatory, stating that Edith Stein was probably gassed. Still other sources suggest that witnesses have reported on her death, saying that she was ‘calm’ even when she entered the gas chamber. However, the identities of these witnesses are not provided. Here are some sources (in French):

From the Vatican:
À l'aube du 7 août, un convoi de 987 juifs parti en direction d'Auschwitz. Ce fut le 9 août 1942, que soeur Thérèse-Bénédicte de la Croix, avec sa soeur Rose et de nombreux autres membres de son peuple, mourut dans les chambres à gaz d'Auschwitz”.

http://www.vatican.va/news_services/lit ... in_fr.html

Source quoting witnesses:
Des témoins ont attesté l'attitude admirable des deux soeurs lors du voyage dans le convoi qui les conduisit à Auschwitz. Même au moment d'entrer dans la chambre à gaz où elle allait trouver la mort, le 9 août 1942, à 51 ans, Edith Stein, dirent-ils, était "calme". Ayant achevé sa vie dans un four crématoire, elle est la sainte "sans tombeau".
http://www.zenit.org/french/archives/00 ... tml#item14

However, there is one spokesman who seems to be much better informed. The Canadian senator Jerahmiel Grafstein (‘Grafstein’ is German for ‘tombstone’) said the following in the Senate (October 21th, 1998):

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senator Jerahmiel Grafstein

On nous dit que, dans ce lieu épouvantable et infernal, elle a été témoin d'une scène où l'on obligeait un rabbin à mettre le feu à sa barbe. Lorsque celle-ci a brûlé, on lui a ordonné de la couper. Edith Stein s'est portée volontaire pour se substituer à ce rabbin dans les chambres à gaz. Plus tard, lorsqu'un prêtre polonais devait être emmené dans les chambres à gaz, elle a encore une fois offert de le remplacer et a une nouvelle fois essuyé un refus. On nous dit que, en dépit de sa santé précaire et de sa détresse, elle a pris soin des autres, malades, vieillards et affamés. Par pur désintéressement, elle a exposé sa santé fragile aux maladies qui sévissaient, le choléra et la diphtérie, tout cela pour porter secours à autrui (…) Finalement, ils sont venus la chercher et son nom inconnu a été gravé dans la fumée qui montait jusqu'au ciel ”.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/36/1/parlbus/cham ... S27I8H.5A1
So the nazis forced a rabbi to put his beard on fire, and then to shave it. Then Edith Stein offered to replace the rabbi for the gas chamber. However, this offer was declined, and the rabbi was gassed. Later, the nazis wanted to put a catholic polish priest in tha gas chamber, and Edit Stein again offered to replace him. Again, this was refused, and the priest was gassed. Although very ill and weak, Edith Stein took care of the sick, the old, and the weak in the death camp. Then, she was gassed at least.

The informations provided by the Vatican (Stein was gassed immediately after her arrival at Auschwitz) and by Grafstein (Stein was refused gassing twice, and she took care of the sick and the weak in the camp) are somewhat incompatible. Is there somebody who knows more about witnesses who saw Edith Stein in the death camp of Auschwitz?

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:53 am)

(‘Grafstein’ is German for ‘tombstone’)

Sorry that I have to correct a detail:

Graf means duke, Grab means grave.

Tombstone means Grabstein.
Grafstein means something like "Stone of the duke".
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Postby Kobus » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 4:50 am)

ClaudiaRothenbach wrote:
(‘Grafstein’ is German for ‘tombstone’)

Sorry that I have to correct a detail:

Graf means duke, Grab means grave.

Tombstone means Grabstein.
Grafstein means something like "Stone of the duke".


Your're right, of course. I confounded with the Danish 'grav' and the Dutch 'graf'. Perhaps a Lautverschiebung in the opposite sense. Possibly 'Grafstein' is a yiddish name (although the yiddish word for 'grave' has a hebrew origin).

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Postby ClaudiaRothenbach » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 8:25 am)

Here you find some more information about Edith Stein deportation - not about her death (unfortunately in German):
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?p=26023#26023
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Postby Harald » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 9:24 am)

Kobus wrote:Graf means duke.


No. Graf means earl or count. Duke is Herzog.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:07 am)

Hello, we just recently dealt with Edith Stein:

'Help needed on Auschwitz detail / Edith Stein'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3965

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:15 pm)

We seem to be getting no where in seeking information about the actual facts about the death of Edith Stein. Just a lot of petty peripheral nonsense. The other thread based on Prof. Faurisson's letter to the Pope also produced nothing.

But I know that there has been research on the subject. I can't put my hands on it now. I recall evidence that she was not gassed as claimed but moved on to other camps where she likely died of typhus. But where did I see it? Surely someone remembers. I'll keep looking.

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:08 pm)

On going into my files I can report that there are documents on prisoners kept at Auschwitz I, the Main Camp. Several years ago a Catholic researcher gained access to the file on Edith Stein but before he could examine it in detail it was retrieved from him as "unauthorized". Apparently only authorized Jewish representatives were allowed access to the records. This in "Catholic" Poland; a foreign Catholic scholar could not examine the records of a Catholic saint. To the best of my knowledge there was no official Catholic protest.

The researcher did not have a chance to examine the file in detail but he did note that the date of her alleged death was apparently said in a hand written note to have been originally recorded "in error" as a year after her supposed gassing.

Also the fact that there was a file on her at all indicates that she was not one of the supposed "gassed on arrival - not registered" victims which the Holocaust promoters allege to explain away the impossible numbers of victims at Auschwitz.

There are no credible witnesses to the Edith Stein gassing stories (how could there be? - there were no gas chambers!) and the typhus epidemics were raging during her stay at Auschwitz, if she remained there in any case. Since the Germans didn't record anyone being gassed (she would have been the first case - there isn't a single such document needless to say) it is likely that the records would have shown that she died of typhus - before they were yanked away.

It will be interesting to see if the Arolsen documents are of assistance.

In any case it seems to me that the outrageous censorship of access to the records at Auschwitz must be challenged by someone in Poland. Is there anything such as a revisionist in Poland?[/u]

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Postby Kobus » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:09 pm)

Radar wrote:But I know that there has been research on the subject. I can't put my hands on it now. I recall evidence that she was not gassed as claimed but moved on to other camps where she likely died of typhus. But where did I see it? Surely someone remembers. I'll keep looking.


The case of Edith Stein is terribly important. A lot of threads come together here. Keep trying.

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Postby Breker » 1 decade 3 years ago (Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:41 pm)

This quote from Canadian senator Jerahmiel Grafstein.
Then Edith Stein offered to replace the rabbi for the gas chamber. However, this offer was declined, and the rabbi was gassed. Later, the nazis wanted to put a catholic polish priest in tha gas chamber, and Edit Stein again offered to replace him. Again, this was refused, and the priest was gassed.

That rubbish means the "gas chambers" were well known to Auschwitz inmates. We find this to be in direct contradiction to the claim that they were kept secret by fooling people into thinking they were getting showers.
The case of Edith Stein is terribly important.

We fail to understand why it is so terribly important. Given the complete stupidity of the party line regarding the gas chambers allegations, the Edith Stein melodrama is necessarily false, regardless of how many times it's repeated.
Breker

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Postby Kobus » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:43 am)

Breker wrote:We fail to understand why it is so terribly important. Given the complete stupidity of the party line regarding the gas chambers allegations, the Edith Stein melodrama is necessarily false, regardless of how many times it's repeated.
Breker


Edith Stein was arrested, deported to Auschwitz, and then seemingly disappeared without a trace. There are two possibilities: either she was murdered (gassed or not) shortly after her arrival at Auschwitz, or she was not. In the first case, it is to be expected that no administrative trace remains. In the second case, both administrative traces and declarations by witnesses are expected to exist (as Edith Stein was already rather well known in the forties). It is thinkable however, that any such traces have been deliberately destroyed, or are kept hidden. Given the thouroughly catholic character of Poland, the omnipresence of the Church and the rather open character of the Auschwitz camp, it seems unthinkable that the Catholic Church didn’t know about the existence of indications proving that Edyta Stein was alive after August 9th, 1942 (a catholic canonization is always preceeded by an exhaustive examination of al the biographical evidence available). So any document proving Edyta Stein being alive after August 9th, 1942, would at the same time prove the Catholic Church being actively involved in the setting up of an holocaust myth. That makes this case so important. On the other hand, if Edith Stein really was murdered on August 9th, 1942, then her case is clear evidence of the reality of an holocaust of sorts (even when most elements of the ‘official story’ could turn out to be unreliable or false).

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 4:30 am)

Breker wrote:That rubbish means the "gas chambers" were well known to Auschwitz inmates. We find this to be in direct contradiction to the claim that they were kept secret by fooling people into thinking they were getting showers.

Breker


Rubbish indeed! I can also not imagine that Stein would just walk up to the guards and ask them to replace people in such a manner as it was described. If the Germans ran a extermination centre why would they hesitate when someone makes a wish to enter the alleged "gas chamber"? Why even replace a person with that of Stein when both can enter?

This Holocaust nonsense becomes dumber day by day. It is quite humorous for us who knows about the fraud.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 9:11 am)

Haldan wrote:If the Germans ran a extermination centre why would they hesitate when someone makes a wish to enter the alleged "gas chamber"? Why even replace a person with that of Stein when both can enter?


Yes, it's of course ridiculous.

"Sorry, we just packed 3000 guys into the gas chambers so there's no room left. Please come back tomorrow." :wink:

But, as I pointed out in another thread, there exist at least one witness who claim to have been declined a "shower" - thrice! :D

http://www.forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=3858

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Postby Radar » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:15 am)

Kobus is correct. There are two areas of inquiry here. One is the Auschwitz record which did exist at one time as I have pointed out earlier. Why can't we see it now that the communist system has ended in Poland?

The other is the Vatican research relating to the objective examination of her life which goes on before proposing her for sainthood. Is that available for examination? I don' t know.

And, yes, this is important for many reasons, not least of which is the Auschwitz gassing stories. True it is the case of only one person but an important one and it will be noticed.

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Postby vincentferrer » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:35 pm)

(a catholic canonization is always preceeded by an exhaustive examination of all the biographical evidence available)


I think it is fair to say either the Catholic church does not know how she died, or was blocked from the truth.

It is truly an unfortunate development that every narative about this saint has the word gas chambers in it.

My guess is somone told a investigator of the church " gas chambers"
and that was entered into the record. Who in this day and age is going to try and counter with something like, " Prove it "

The fact is, if there was one body, at ANY camp that had been gassed
that fact would be plastered on every holocaust museum door
and entered into history books, and mentioned in every holocaust talk

It is not up to revisionists to prove no person was gassed, although that is easy to do because there is no evidence.
But despite that, it is still incumbant on those who claim it, to prove it.
The very word holocaust is a pejorative to every German citizen. There was no holocaust,
just lies from the abandoned race.


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