Richard Rashke's "Escape from Sobibor"

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ps
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Postby ps » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Dec 11, 2007 2:43 am)

Sorry, my English is so bad and limited, that you would understand nothing from my "translation". It would be wrong. Here you can see, that Sobibor was not a death camp. It was a transit camp.


Google translation:

Der Reichsführer-SS
RF / Bn 1674/43 geh.M.
Field Command Center, 5 July 1943
Secret Reich thing
10 copies
Arrangement 10th Copy
1) SS-Wirtschafts-Verwaltungshauptamt
2) SS-Führungshauptamt
3) Higher SS and police leaders East
4) Higher SS and police leaders Ostland
5) Higher SS and police leaders to Russia in mid -
6) Higher SS and police leaders Ukraine
7) Higher SS and police leaders in the district of Lublin
8) Chief of the gang fight Associations
9) copies (inserted by hand) in the forest of Ostubaf. Brandt over 6.7
10.) chief of the Security Police and SD durchschriftlich with regard to the request sent.
IA SS-Obersturmbannführer Br.

1. The passage Sobibor camp in the district of Lublin, in a concentration camp convert. In this concentration camp is a Entlaborisierungsanstalt for loot munitions.

2. All Higher SS and police leaders are held, all the loot ammunition to the extent they are not to Munitionierung of in-use Beutegeschützen needed, according to deliver there.

3. Metals and especially the Sprengpulver are careful to use.

4. At the same time, in this concentration camp a manufacturing facility for our Vielfachwerfer or other munitions to build.

Signed Himmler

To find: Federal Archives Koblenz: NS-19/1571
Source: Historical facts No. 49, 1991 - "Lost Documents", page 24

-------------------------------------------------- -----------------------




Wirtschaft-Verwaltungshauptamt
Berlin, 15 July 1943.
Licherfelde-West
Among the oaks 126-135
Zitatzeichen: PO / Fa.
Subject.: A transit camp Sobibor.
Reference: There. Letter of 5.7. RF / Bn 1674/43 go.
Case
An
Der Reichsführer-SS

Berlin


Reichsführer!

Under their arrangement, the above passage Sobibor camp in the district of Lublin in a concentration camp transformed.

I was with SS.Gruppenführer Globocnik about entertained. We both suggest that the conversion to a concentration camp to abandon because of your desired purpose, namely: in Sobibor a Entlaborisierungsanstalt for loot ammunition up, even without this conversion is achieved.

Everything else in the above arrangement can remain so. I ask for your consent, the only group leader Globocnik and me is important.

Heil Hitler
Hand Signed Pohl
SS-Obergruppenführer General and the Waffen-SS

To find: Federal Archives Koblenz NS 19/1571
Source: Historical facts No. 49, 1991 - "Lost Documents", page 25

Laurentz Dahl
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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:28 am)

@grenadier Thanks a lot for the summary. Keep'em coming!

@ps Does the Historische Tatsachen issue reproduce the documents as facsimiles or only as transcriptions? If facsimiles, would it be possibly for you to scan them?

Best regards,

Laurentz

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Postby grenadier » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:09 pm)

Notice how one cannot explain away this correspondence between
Himmler and Pohl through "code words" because it just doesn't make
sense!

Great material ps!

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Postby ps » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:55 pm)

@Laurentz Dahl

Sorry, only transcription.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jan 07, 2008 1:13 am)

I haven't noticed it until now but the exterminationist site www.holocaustresearchproject.org (H.E.A.R.T.) - which John Harrison and the fellows at deathcamps.org apparently bear some kind of grudge against - states regarding Wagner:

After the war escaped to Brasil, but in May 1978, he was discovered by Simon Wiesenthal – the Nazi Hunter. He was imprisoned but his extradition to Germany and Israel failed, and he committed suicide in October 1980, in mysterious circumstances.

http://www.holocaustresearchproject.org ... rship.html

So it's apparently not only revisionists who harbor doubts about the alleged suicide.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:58 pm)

Via Axis History Forum I came across a Dutch Sobibor site which seems to be managed by Jules Schelvis. It has an article on Szmajzner which contains a transcript of what appears to be an interview (radio? TV?) with Szmajzner and Wagner at their confrontation in Sao Paulo. No source is given. It is stated that the interview is from 1979 but this is likely incorrect and should be 1978. Though I'm not 100 percent sure on this. In the transcript Szmajner says that Wagner has eluded the law for 36 years. Since Sobibor was closed down in late 1943, this implies that the interview takes place in 1979. On the other hand, the reporter asks Szmajzner "What should happen now, when at last after all those years you have found Mr. Wagner?" which would be a strange question to ask a year after Wagner's arrest. Most likely "36" is a mistake on Szmajzner's account.

Anyway, here is my translation of the transcript, which in turn is likely a translation from Portuguese.


The confrontation with Wagner in 1979 [1978?]


SZMAJZNER: You were the commandant of Sobibor.

WAGNER: No, that's incorrect. Stangl was the commandant.

REPORTER: Who then was the boss?

SZMAJZNER: He [pointing his finger at Wagner] was the boss. He was Oberscharführer.

WAGNER: I was neither commandant nor subcommandant.

SZMAJZNER: Gustav Wagner was Oberscharführer, and that's it [? "en daarmee uit"]

WAGNER: No, that's a lie. He does not know what he's talking about.

SZMAJZNER: Tell us a bit more about Sobibor. You don't have the courage to confess to what happened in Sobibor. Be a man and tell us the truth. There died a lot of people and no one protested. You killed people and did to us whatever pleased you. After 36 years be a man and admit it. He has not changed at all, he has only gotten older. But he is the same Wagner. In Sobibor he talked, but not now [? "In Sobibór had hij het voor het zeggen, maar nu niet meer."].
He could do whatever he wanted. In Sobibor he was a god. Now he wants to pretend that he is a good man. He wants people to believe that he has not done anything.

REPORTER: Has he repressed it?

SZMAJZNER: I don't believe that, he is intelligent enough. Very intelligent, he understands everything. He is very normal. When I addressed him and asked: Gustl - because that's what his comrades called him - do you remember me from Sobibor? I was a goldsmith and had to process gold. Do you recall? Then he said: Yes I remember you, you and your three brothers. If you can recall something like that you are normal, right? I had to make a ring for you as Oberscharführer. The ring was of gold, with an emblem on it.

WAGNER: Just be quiet.

SZMAJZNER: Do you recall it already? He remembers it. Do you know what the emblem contained? Two connected Y-shapes [in fact the "Algiz" rune], one directed upwards, one down. The one pointing upwards meant life. The one pointing downwards meant death. You ruled over life and death, didn't you?

WAGNER: No, that is not true. It is only a rumour ["’t Is alleen maar een gerucht."].

SZMAJZNER: He surely knows it.

REPORTER: Mister Gustav [sic], wasn't the camp where you worked an extermination camp?

SZMAJZNER: It was an extermination camp.

WAGNER: Be quiet.

REPORTER: What should happen now, when at last after all those years you have found Mr. Wagner?

SZMAJZNER: He must be put in prison. To think over his crimes. Many of his comrades have already been caught years ago. He has lived free as a bird for 36 years whereas his friends have been caught.

REPORTER: Are you against the death penalty?

SZMAJZNER: Yes absolutely.


http://stichtingsobibor.nl/index.php/31 ... /#more-315

It seems as if Szmajzner is trying to talk all the time, thus keeping Wagner (who apparently gets irritated and ask Szmajzner to be quiet a moment) from replying to questions. Notice how Szmajzner replies to the question directed at Wagner about the nature of the camp ("It was an extermination camp."), how Wagner once again ask Szmajzner to be quiet (presumably so he can answer himself) - and how the reporter suddenly skips the issue without an answer from Wagner and starts another question [granted that the transcript is unabridged].

In Rashke and elsewhere we are told that when Szmajzner first confronted Wagner in Sao Paulo, he said "Gust, do you remember me from Sobibor", and that Wagner then replied in affirmative and stated "I saved your lives" which Szmajzner then took as proof that Wagner acknowledged the (alleged) mass gassings at the camp. In the above interview transcript however, Szmajner curiously does not mention this, but instead goes into details about an SS ring in gold he made for Wagner, which according to Szmazjner signified that its bearer ruled over life and death in the camp - something which Wagner dismisses as untrue and "only a rumor". Why didn't Szmajner refer to the much more damning "I saved your lives" statement? This only strengthens my belief that the exchange of words attributed in Rashke to Wagner at his confrontation with Szjmazner were a) never on record, and b) that Szmajner made it up some time after the confrontation, possibly as late as his interview with Rashke.

Of course we need to find out whether there were more statements made by Wagner to the Brazilian (and foreign) press, and what his statements to the Brazilian authorities where. Maybe some poster/reader resident in Brazil could do some groundbreaking detective work.

From the above documentation it appears likely that Wagner vehemently denied any killings at Sobibor by himself or others from the time of his arrest in May 1978 to at least the summer of 1979. What should be assessed from hereon is mainly the authenticity and reliability of the Listener interview from 1979, made at a time when Wagner is said to have spent a year in a mental hospital in Brasilia.

PS. Someone started a thread on Wagner's death over at Axis History Forum (where "Holocaust denial" is banned) but no one has replied to it as of yet.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=120629

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:13 am)

Since I for the time being don't have the resources to go to Brazil and do research there I will try to see if any Brazilians out there can help me out with 1978-1980 articles on the Wagner case. Does anyone here know of any revisionist (or related) web forum, website or newsletter directed at Brazil citizens? If so, please post links here or drop me a pm. Portuguese sites would also do as I suppose larger Portuguese libraries archive magazines and newspapers from their former colonies.

Btw I found the Le Monde article but it is very short and does not contain much of interest. I will post it here with a translation later (this week or next).

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Postby StuDewan » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:35 pm)

I'd suggest that you try to contact the people who made this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6oDmhQCDo

seems that they have plenty of info about Wagner...

Stu

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:42 am)

StuDewan wrote:I'd suggest that you try to contact the people who made this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xa6oDmhQCDo

seems that they have plenty of info about Wagner...

Stu


Many many thanks for this invaluable link!!! :) I will hopefully return with a whole bunch of new interesting material in the not too distant future.


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