Zundel gets 5 years

Read and post various viewpoints or search our large archives.

Moderator: Moderator

Forum rules
Be sure to read the Rules/guidelines before you post!
User avatar
neocon
Member
Member
Posts: 84
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:49 pm
Location: Germany

Zundel gets 5 years

Postby neocon » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:55 am)


Laurentz Dahl
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:49 am)

Simply outrageous. A disgrace to the German nation.

Imagine being jailed for a longer time than many rapists and violent criminals, just for speaking your opinion on a historical matter. :evil:

This harsh sentencing indicates that a similar one will be passed on Germar Rudolf later this month or the next.

User avatar
Haldan
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: <secret>
Contact:

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:13 am)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:This harsh sentencing indicates that a similar one will be passed on Germar Rudolf later this month or the next.


Oh yes, you can certainly be sure of that! Surely these sentences must raise some eyebrows. I think what angers the accusers most is that neither Germar Rudolf nor Ernst Zündel will repent - unless of course scientific evidence is presented infront of their eyes with the same scientific standard and exactitude as Germar Rudolf's many works. However, I don't ever see that happening.

-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

Laurentz Dahl
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:26 am)

I made a quick translation of the article from Spiegel Online. Since neither German nor English is my mother tongue it's not very good and my knowledge of German and US/UK legalese is scant, but I made a try:

Five year prison for Holocaust denier Ernst Zundel

Maximum sentence for Ernst Zundel: The 67 year old was sentenced to 5 year in prison for denying the Holocaust by the district court in Mannheim. ZUndel has described the murder of millions of Jews as a falsification of history.

Hamburg - While resident in Canada, Ernst Zundel through the Internet and in a number of publications systematically called into question the Nazi Era mass murder of the Jews. As one of the world leading right wing extremists Zundel utilized the Internet to spread his Nazi and anti-Semitic propaganda.

In the verdict, the court followed the line of the state prosecutor, who had sought the harshest possible sentencing possible under German law. Zundel's chosen and ordained defence had sought the defendant's acquittal and had therefore not named any preferable sentencing.

In his final words to the court, Zundel requested that an independent and international commission of experts be formed to investigate the Holocaust. Should the hereunto historically known [bisher historisch bekannte] gassing of the Jews be proved by this examination, "I would hold a press conference and apologize to the Jews, to the Israelis and the world", Zundel said.

"If this process had not come to pass, the Right ["die Rechten" - in modern German vernacular "the Right" almost always means the extreme right!] would not have had this chance to make themselves heard, said Zundel's defence lawyer Hans Ulrich Beust. The lawyer, who claims to not share the political opinions of his client, did not seek any concrete sentencing.

The first process against Zundel was initiated by the district court in November 2005. In the beginning of February 2006 a new process was begun which was delayed through a number of motions from the defence. The president judge had accused Zundel's defence of dragging out the trial ["Prozessverschleppung"].

A female defence lawyer chosen by Zundel was dismissed for Another defence lawyer quoted from "Mein Kampf" in his plea. In his plea, the well-known Nazi lawyer Jurgen Rieger himself called expressedly into question the genocide on the Jews. Through this, he had made himself "a target of prosecution on account of utterings inciting the people in the form of 'The Auschwitz-Lie' [a German term for Holocaust Denial which turns the meaning of the title of Thies Cristophersen's famous booklet outside-in]", the court contended.

Since his extradition from Canada in March 2005, Zundel has spent his time in incarcerated tending trial [Untersuchungshaft]. Before that he had spent approximately two years in Canadian prison.

Mannstein
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 7:50 pm

Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:29 am)

Shortly Judge Meinerzhagen will recieve this year's Roland Freisler Award for holocaust judicial activism.

The award consists of a chrome plated meat hook mounted on a handsome granite base with the appropriate inscription.

User avatar
Haldan
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 1371
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 9:56 pm
Location: <secret>
Contact:

Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:00 am)

In his closing remarks, Zündel had called on the court to establish an international commission of experts to examine the Holocaust. He added that he would apologize to Jews and other victims if the commission confirmed that Jews had been gassed.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,214 ... 42,00.html


Notice the outrageous title of the above article: "German Neo-Nazi Gets Five Years for Holocaust Denial". Incredible.

-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

Laurentz Dahl
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:22 am)

Frankfurter Allgemeine has more on the verdict:

Hinter der Fassade des „biederen Schwaben“ sei Zündel „ein gefährlicher politischer Agitator, ein Hetzer und Brandredner. Das ist seine zweite Natur“, sagte der Vorsitzende Richter Ulrich Meinerzhagen in der Urteilsbegründung. „Man meint, einen geistig Verwandten des Autors von „Mein Kampf“ vor sich zu haben.“ Zündel sei ein „extremer Antisemit“ und „überzeugter Nationalsozialist“.

In seinen Schriften zeige sich ein „abgrundtiefer Hass auf alles Jüdische“, sagte Meinerzhagen. „Zündel strebt eine Rückkehr in das faschistische Staatswesen an.“ Der Angeklagte habe „schändliche und schwer erträgliche Behauptungen“ verbreitet und damit den öffentlichen Frieden gefährdet. Der Richter warnte besonders vor Zündels Internetseite. Der Angeklagte habe sich häufig mit einem praktisch unbegrenzten Besucherkreis für seine Homepage gebrüstet: „Darin liegt die besondere Gefährlichkeit dieses Mediums.“


(In my awkward translation:

"Behind the facade of the "respectable Schwabian" Zundel is "a dangerous political agitator, a baiter and instigator. That is his second nature," Meinerzhagen said in his reasons for the judgement. "We have before us something of a relation in spirit to the author of Mein Kampf." Zundel is "an extreme anti-Semite" and a "dedicated National Socialist."

Zundel's writings display "an abysmal hatred against all things Jewish" said Meinerzhagen. "He is striving towards a return of the Fascist state". The accused had disseminated "outrageous and intolerable statements" and through this he had endangered the public peace. The judge especially warned against Zundel's web site. The accused had bragged about the practically unlimited number of visitors to his homepage: "Therein especially lies the danger of that medium.")

Source

I hope the dishonorable Ulrich Meinerzhagen gets a peek of this web site. Maybe it would give him a well deserved heart attack.

Is this frothing nut of a "man" qualified to accuse others of "abysmal hatred"?

Image

Goethe
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 372
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:41 am

Postby Goethe » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 11:59 am)

The "Holocaust Industry's" position is so pathetic that the views of the status quo cannot withstand the thoughts of one man who was kidnapped from his wife in the US and brought back to Germany.

Short term, Ulrich Meinerzhagen will certainly be rewarded with profitable speaking engagements. But in the long run, Germany's corrupt government will look like a fool's paradise.

Those that profit from the "Holocaust" scam cannot allow people to look under it's rocks.
"The coward threatens when he is safe".
- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

Laurentz Dahl
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:59 pm)

Some reporting from Canada, not quite as biased as the German:

Canadian Press


Thursday, February 15, 2007


MANNHEIM, Germany (CP) - Far-right activist Ernst Zundel was convicted of 14 counts of incitement Thursday for Holocaust denial and sentenced to the maximum five years in prison, a sentence quickly applauded by Canadian Jewish groups.

"I think that they've given a strong message . . . to the world, that I believe will bring a tremendous amount of comfort to Holocaust survivors," said [bloody obscurantist] Bernie Farber, chief executive officer of the Canadian Jewish Congress.

"I think a lot of us can take a very deep breath and move on to other things - other than thinking of Ernst Zundel anymore," Farber said in a telephone interview with The Canadian Press.

Zundel, 67, who was deported from Canada in 2005, was accused of years of anti-Semitic activities, including denying the Holocaust - a crime in Germany - in documents and on the Internet.

Zundel and his supporters have argued that he is a peaceful campaigner who has been denied his right to free speech.

Zundel has been a prominent white supremacist and Holocaust denier since the 1970s. Among other ventures, he ran Samisdat Publishers, a leading distributor of Nazi propaganda based in Canada. He also provided content to The Zundelsite website, which has followers around the world, hundreds of whom have protested his detention.

Zundel was born in Germany in 1939. He immigrated to Canada in 1958 and lived in Toronto and Montreal until 2001. Canadian officials rejected his attempts to obtain citizenship in 1966 and 1994.

He then moved to Tennessee, where he married fellow extremist Ingrid Rimland, but was deported to Canada in 2003 for alleged immigration violations.

Upon arrival in Toronto, Zundel was arrested and held in detention until a judge ruled in March 2005 that his activities posed a threat to national and international security, and he was deported to Germany.

Zundel has been standing trial in Germany since November of last year in what were, at times, raucous proceedings.

The initial attempt to try him collapsed last March over a dispute with one of his lawyers, Sylvia Stolz.

At one stage she had to be carried from the courtroom, screaming "Resistance! The German people are rising up," after defying an order banning her from the trial on grounds she tried to sabotage the proceedings by denouncing the court as a "tool of foreign domination."

In the current trial, defence lawyer Ludwig Bock quoted from Adolf Hitler's "Mein Kampf" and from Nazi race laws in his closing statements last week as argued for Zundel's acquittal.

Bock accused the Mannheim state court of not wanting to face a "scientific analysis" of the Holocaust and alleged that prosecutors - one of whom has termed Zundel a "rat catcher" - had defamed his client.

Another of Zundel's five lawyers, Herbert Schaller, told the court that all of its evidence that the Holocaust took place was based only on witness reports, instead of hard facts.

In his own closing arguments, prosecutor Andreas Grossmann called Zundel a "political con man" from whom the German people must be protected.

Grossmann quoted widely from his Zundel's, which argue that millions of Jews did not die at the hands of the Nazis.

"You might as well argue that the sun rises in the west," Grossmann said when asking that Zundel be given the maximum sentence. "But you cannot change that the Holocaust has been proven:( ."

User avatar
Hannover
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 9892
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:53 pm

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:45 pm)

"You might as well argue that the sun rises in the west," Grossmann said when asking that Zundel be given the maximum sentence. "But you cannot change that the Holocaust has been proven.

Then why the need to imprison all those who question whether the "sun rises in the west"? The weight of the alleged evidence should end the issue once and for all.

Of course, the evidence is a joke and cannot withstand scrutiny.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

Laurentz Dahl
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:06 pm)

David Duke.com comments on the verdict:

Germany has committed a criminal, illegal, unjust and cruel act of imprisonment of an elderly man that is not guilty of any crime but who has relied on the principle of freedom of speech which Germany and many other nations say is sacred but then deny. Germany’s imprisonment of this dissident is a disgrace. Every nation and every political leader who believes in human freedom should protest this archaic, despicable act.

Concurrent with the Zundel trial, the German government has imprisoned another non-violent intellectual, chemist Gemar Rudolf on the same thought-crime charges for which he faces five years imprisonment if found guilty.

We at Davidduke.com urge every person reading this announcement, no matter where you live in the world, to call and write your local German embassy or consulate, and any large German corporations doing business in your community and protest this imprisonment in the strongest possible terms. Those of you who can should picket and protest at German embassies and consulates, and we urge citizens of Germany of every political stripe, whether they agree or disagree with the opinions of Ernst Zundel, to raise a storm of protest of this cruel act against human rights and freedom. Write letters, call politicians night and day, get out into the streets with placards, participate in candlelight vigils. Every freedom-loving person on earth should stand up for freedom and against the imprisonment of Ernst Zundel. No European can ever again protest human rights violations in non-European nations around the world unless they take a principled stand in the jailing of Ernst Zundel for his opinions.


http://www.davidduke.com/general/shame- ... #more-1795

Carto's Cutlass Supreme
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 2362
Joined: Tue Dec 07, 2004 1:42 am
Location: Northern California

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 3:30 pm)

Does he get credit for "time served." He's already done around 3 years hasn't he? Does the Canada incarceration count for time served?

Gertrud
Member
Member
Posts: 30
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 8:32 pm
Location: Hamburg

Postby Gertrud » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 5:49 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:Does the Canada incarceration count for time served?

No, it doesn't. At least, not necessarily so, and certainly not in this case, according to this verdict.

Mr Dahl, your translation is not all awkward. It should read Suabian, however.

Radar
Valued contributor
Valued contributor
Posts: 505
Joined: Sat Feb 26, 2005 2:25 pm

Postby Radar » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:43 pm)

I would expect that he would receive credit for the time he has spent in German custody.

I would hope that the vituperative language reported to have been used by the judge in his verdict will be reported in the press since it is uncalled for and inappropriate to Ernst Zundel.

Laurentz Dahl
Valuable asset
Valuable asset
Posts: 981
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:00 am
Location: Somewhere in Europe

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:40 am)

"Dangerous rabulist" Ernst Zundel and his "abysmal hatred towards all things Jewish."

Image

Ernst Zundel with dissident Jew Joseph Ginzburg

Image

Ernst Zundel shakes hand with Jewish revisionist David Cole at Auschwitz Main Camp

Image

Ernst Zundel with Israeli ex-politician and dissident Haviv Schreiber

Zundel is admittedly an admirer of Adolf Hitler, but I don't consider the man a "hater". The real haters here are the people who prosecuted and judged him and the people who cheered the perverse verdict.

Germar Rudolf on Ernst Zundel:

My path to and within Revisionism, now counting 13 years, was a rough one, and I might say that Ernst Zündel is NOT to be blamed for it. In contrast to many others, in particular dedicated anti-Nazis, Ernst did not even cause me a headache. Although I still have my political problems with some of his views, I have learned a lot during those several occasions when I had the pleasure-- yes, pleasure!--to meet Ernst. And guess what! I learned that "Nazis" can be decent, sympathetic, reasonable, polite, tolerant, and smart people, in contrast to so many non- and anti-Nazis. And I also learned that One and One is even then Two when a "Nazi" claims it. Well, perhaps Ernst is an exception from the rule--my statistical data about the character of National Socialists is too small to make a judgment--but he sure is a really likeable person and everything else but an extremist, quite an antithesis to the generally held cliché about National Socialists.

I do not claim that it [The Rudolf Report] will help Ernst in his struggle for freedom and freedom of speech. Perhaps the opposite is true. After all, I had to learn the hard way that the better our revisionist arguments become, the more dangerous we are for those who hate us, hence the more we will be persecuted. So here now is the reason for the powers that be to turn the thumb screws once more.

All I can do to help Ernst is to join Wilhelm II von Hohenzollern: I no longer know any parties, I know only Revisionists -- and every critically thinking human being is a revisionist (which doesn't mean that all human beings think critically, I am afraid to say...).

Today they get the Ernst Zündels, because they are "Nazis". Tomorrow it might be the Germar Rudolfs, because they associated with "Nazis". The day thereafter, it may be you.

Millions say: "I alone cannot change anything." -- millions!

Think about it!

http://vho.org/GB/Books/trr/dedicate.html

... and now Germar Rudolf is next in line to get a maximum sentence for thought crime. :evil:


Return to “'Holocaust' Debate / Controversies / Comments / News”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot] and 3 guests