Dresden open air pyre cremations as a model for Aktion 1005

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jnovitz
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Dresden open air pyre cremations as a model for Aktion 1005

Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 18, 2007 2:09 pm)

Do the photos of the open air cremation in the Altmarkt provide a model for (possible) cremations of mass killings of Jews in Eastern Europe.

Image

It appears that not a huge stack of wood is required for cremating a large pile of corpses.

Does this give us a model for the requirements at Aktion Reinhart camps and elsewhere?

Apart from Dresden and alleged Jewish massacres was this style of corpse disposal used in any other situation, ie for battle victims Russian or German or other major bombing raids, eg Hamburg.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 18, 2007 2:51 pm)

See that taken care of here:

'Railroad rails in fires'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2447

Also, use our search function for 'Aktion 1005'. The claims do not stand up to scrutiny.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 19, 2007 5:23 am)

I don't believe that a pile of dead bodies could be cremated on an open pyre by just putting a match to it.

I think that they poured gasoline over the bodies in the case of Dresden and then started the fire. If enough gasoline is used, the fat of the bodies may melt and start burning, which in turn may result in the evaporation of the body fluids and result in a partial cremation of the rest of the bodies.
These partially cremated bodies were then burried in mass graves in Dresden as far as I know.

We know how much fuel would be required for a full incineration of animal cadavers. I have no idea how much fuel would be required for disinterred and partially decomposed human bodies.
Mattogno estimated 20% less fuel for this case, but I may be wrong on this.

fge
The Holocaust hoaxsters exaggerate and embellish a 60+ year old event in order to abuse the Palestinians and rob them of their land, while claiming a free pass for their barbaric conduct on account of the "holocaust".

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 25, 2007 12:30 pm)

Here is another photo allegedly of pyres (not necessarily Jewish) from Klooga in Estonia, taken by Soviets.

Image

It seems to be rather more generous on the wood supply than they were at Dresden.

So was Dresden and Jews the only situations when the Germans used mass open air pyres for body disposal?

No other bombing raids? Or battles on the eastern front?

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 25, 2007 2:07 pm)

Was this method of disposal of human bodies successful? I doubt it. All I can see in this particular picture is a huge pile of bodies. I haven't read Slaughter House Five yet but was this the method of choice for body disposal in Dresden? Are we to assume all the bodies eventually burned to ash? How do we know this? What did the “after” picture look like? I suspect that, the Nazis, having absolutely no experience in trying to get rid of so many bodies at once, may have first tried to burn them as in the picture, but that having failed, tried something else. It must have been an enormous problem in trying to get rid of several hundred thousand bodies...You'd be amazed at the number of people who think bodies burn like logs.

But to try an extrapulate this crime to Auschwitz we still would have the problem of getting rid of the 30 to 50 tons of dust every day in the camps....getting the gas into and out of the killing rooms....What a complicated web we weave when at first we try to deceive...
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 25, 2007 2:18 pm)

While we our on the subject. Here is another photo of alleged pyres taken by the Soviets, bless their little red socks, at Auschwitz (although presumably after the snow had melted).

Image

It doesnt seem to leave a great deal of ash behind. Although that head looks rather alarming.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 25, 2007 2:32 pm)

How is anyone to know that these last 2 pictures are what the poster claims?

There are some classic staged photos by the communist Soviets showing 'pyres', which I suspect is what these are all about. I'll dig some out and post them.

There is no proof that these 'pyres' are real and of German origin.

And the silly storyline says that all the alleged pyre burnings were completed and the Germans then hid the evidence. Once again, the absurd assertions collapse upon themselves.

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 25, 2007 2:39 pm)

Hannover, I have no opinion on the genuineness of any of these photos.

I simply put forward the photos as they are captioned.

It is quite possible, as far as I am concerned, that the photo at Klooga is staged, the photo at Auschwitz is fake and the photos of Dresden are also manipulations by the East German communist government.

Thats really why I am posting them, to see if they can shed any light on claims of pyre burnings and how they would operate, whether in Dresden or Aktion Reinhart or anywhere.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri May 25, 2007 2:54 pm)

jnovitz,
No one claims the Dresden photo is a 'manipulation by the East German communist government.'

But here's what I'm talking about, phoney as a $3 bill.

Allegedly corpses of murdered Jews to be burned on a pyre.
Image
http://www.vho.org/GB/Books/dth/fndgcffor.html

llustration 6 allegedly shows a pyre with Jews killed by the Germans in the Estonia camp Klooga.[27] What is remarkable here, for one, is that some of the bodies stacked between the wooden beams are wearing their hats (top left). This would be possible only if the 'Nazi thugs' had glued the caps onto the heads of these corpses - or if the people lying there were not dead at all, and had put their caps on by themselves after getting into the position shown. The latter possibility is supported by the fact that the people depicted in this photo show not even the slightest sign of rigor mortis: their limbs are perfectly adjusted to their new position on the pyre; see for example the arms of the man at bottom left, or the arm of the man at top right. In fact, what we have here is not only a mis-captioned photo, but one that probably has also been cropped. Off towards the side, a photo of the same scenery, but a different perspective, shows people in Soviet uniforms, and their smug grins at this posed scene are clearly visible. There exist at least seven different photos of this scene, all off them showing men with hats, but without any sign of rigor mortis, as J. Kuras has shown.[28]

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 26, 2007 5:36 pm)

A key point about these outdoor cremation photos such as the Dresden one, is they are probably not cremation photos at all. It's probably enough heat and flames to sterilize. Lice are on skin and hair so just heat there would sterilize that. It would be a whole different thing to turn the bodies to ash via outdoor cremation.

I remember seeing the movie "One Third of the Holocaust" and the chapter called "Lamb." which shows what it takes to cremate flesh. For one, more weight in wood than weight in bodies.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 26, 2007 10:09 pm)

jnovitz wrote: Hannover, I have no opinion on the genuineness of any of these photos.

I simply put forward the photos as they are captioned.

It is quite possible, as far as I am concerned, that the photo at Klooga is staged, the photo at Auschwitz is fake and the photos of Dresden are also manipulations by the East German communist government.

Thats really why I am posting them, to see if they can shed any light on claims of pyre burnings and how they would operate, whether in Dresden or Aktion Reinhart or anywhere.

The fact is that there were films made in Germany about the air attack of Dresden. Whether the open air cremation pictures of Dresden are authentic or taken from some of these films escapes me.

According to "The Hindu":
Theoretically speaking, only 22 kg of firewood is required for the disposal of a body but practically 400-600 kg is used.
http://www.hindu.com/2005/05/15/stories ... 721000.htm

This conforms with the amount of wood for open air cremations which I have myself also observed in Kathmandu, Nepal.

Compared to this the Dresden pyres looks rather unrealistically flimsy.

The huge number of alleged Jewish victims in Babi Yar, in Rumbula, in Belzec or Treblinka were to my knowledge never found. The simplest solution to this can be found through the application of Occam's Razor: These Jews did not die in these locations.

But Holocaust believers will attempt to explain away the non-existing dead bodies with pictures of minor grave sites found all over Russia or that the bodies were cremated to ashes on some sort of open pyres and therefore can never be found, or some similar complicated explanation.

I personally doubt whether it is possible to cremate human bodies or animal cadavers on open pyres to ashes.
Checking Google with 'Cremation procedures' it seems that the cremation itself lasts somewhere between 2 to 3 hours. After a cooling down period of 30 minutes the remaining bone fragments are placed into a bone grinder and ground to bone meal, which takes another 30 minutes.

Animal cadavers from 'foot and mouth epidemics' or 'mad cow diseases' are usually burned in specially designed incinerators which are equipped with heat recuperators and compressed air. I am not familiar that these cadavers are also burned on open air pyres.

fge
The Holocaust hoaxsters exaggerate and embellish a 60+ year old event in order to abuse the Palestinians and rob them of their land, while claiming a free pass for their barbaric conduct on account of the "holocaust".

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat May 26, 2007 11:37 pm)

A photo from the recent tsunami.

Image

The pyres are not huge, perhaps 50-100 kgs of wood? These are individual so with a mass cremation some efficiencies might be gained.

The Klooga pyre might work, but, as shown above, I dont think there is enough wood for the Dresden pyre. Pouring on petrol might not be an effective solution as the the petrol will burn off very rapidly.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sun May 27, 2007 12:54 am)

jnovitz wrote:A photo from the recent tsunami.

Image

The pyres are not huge, perhaps 50-100 kgs of wood? These are individual so with a mass cremation some efficiencies might be gained.

The Klooga pyre might work, but, as shown above, I dont think there is enough wood for the Dresden pyre. Pouring on petrol might not be an effective solution as the the petrol will burn off very rapidly.

"perhaps 50-100 kgs of wood" [each]
Huh? I don' think so. If there's a corpse in those fires, then that wood is far more than 50-100 kgs, look at the size of those logs.

Of course we must ask where all the wood (for the alleged & laughable 'holocaust' millions who were supposedly cremated on 'open pyres') came from.

Multiple train loads of wood every day would have been required for Treblinka alone,

there were no massive deforestations,

no evidence of massive logging operations,

no evidence of massive manpower allocations,

no evidence of enormous train allocations,

no evidence of enormous truck allocations,

no evidence of enormous fuel alocations,

no evidence of enormous wood drying,

absolutely nothing to support the alleged & absurd 'open pyre' cremations of Jews.

Be sure to read:
'Some Comments about Treblinka Cremations'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=500
and:
'Laws of nature undo Holocaust story'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=31

And then, where are the human remains?

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:42 am)

The kind of fuel allegedly used differs from one narrator to the next. Lengyel claimed she saw a pile of firewood nearly 100 yards long at the red brick building, while Muller claimed that the pits were fueled with twigs and rags stuffed between the bodies and fueled by pouring boiling fat over the top.

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 3 years ago (Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:45 am)

Image

These Jews have all their clothing (and hair!) and the dude on top even still has hit hat on -- and perfectly straight! Was he thrown on there or did he lie down? :lol: :P


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