historians defend Revisionism / Ari Fleisher shot down

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Hannover
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historians defend Revisionism / Ari Fleisher shot down

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:14 am)

Ari Fleisher, who's with the current US administration (an Israeli citizen I'm told), stuck his foot in his mouth; common for a judeo-supremacist Zionist, and revealed his tendency towards censorship. Here's a news piece refuting his dumb statement on Revisionism.

- Hannover

Historians Defend Revisionism
Letter sent to the editors of the NYT, Boston Globe, Washington Post, LA
Times, San Francisco Chronicle

To the editor:
http://hnn.us/articles/865.html#revisionism7-15-03

Last week, when his administration was criticized for justifying the Iraq invasion with forged evidence, President Bush accused his critics of attempting to "rewrite history." Then Ari Fleisher sneered at "revisionist historians." As historians, we are troubled by these remarks.

It is central to the work of historians to search for accuracy, and to revise conclusions that prove to be unsupported by evidence. Revision, based on fresh evidence, is a good thing. The argument about the use of misleading claims in the State of the Union address is not about revising history; it is about whether public statements were founded on honestly presented evidence.

Joyce Appleby, University of California/Los Angeles
Alan Brinkley, Columbia University
Linda Gordon, New York University
Hendrik Hartog, Princeton University
Michael Kazin, Georgetown University
Linda Kerber, University of Iowa
Alice Kessler-Harris, Columbia University
Vicki Ruiz, University of California/Irvine
Richard White, Stanford University
(Institutions listed for identification only.)


"Against stupidity the gods themselves struggle in vain." -- Schiller
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: historians defend Revisionism / Ari Fleisher shot down

Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 12:37 am)

Hannover wrote:Ari Fleisher, who's with the current US administration (an Israeli citizen I'm told), stuck his foot in his mouth; common for a judeo-supremacist Zionist, and revealed his tendency towards censorship. Here's a news piece refuting his dumb statement on Revisionism.


I have to express doubt that any of these historians would defend Holocaust Revisionism. All academics are cowards on the issue.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:24 am)

You're probably right, at least they wouldn't say so in public. They would lose their jobs in the judeo-supremacist, ultra pro-Zionist, Thought Policing world of so called 'academia'.

But there are major cracks in the damn as we seem to be moving towards a critical mass.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 9:54 am)

Hannover wrote:You're probably right, at least they wouldn't say so in public. They would lose their jobs in the judeo-supremacist, ultra pro-Zionist, Thought Policing world of so called 'academia'.


I don't know about down there but up here in the Great White North, the campuses are hotbeds of anti-Israel sentiment these days. There was a riot in Montreal when Bibi Netanyahu was there two years ago or so. Montreal and much of Quebec has a large Arab population so there isn't much support for Zionism there. I know there have been protests at the University of Toronto and there have been a few protests at government buildings here. They seem to be offset by the pro-Israel demonstrators in my city if not elsewhere.

Your point is a good one, though, that even if these historians were Holocaust Revisionists (and some probably are) they wouldn't admit it publicly. While they may be lefties and not terribly sympathetic to Israel, there are still far more Jews in academia than in the the general population. They'll fight Revisionism tooth and nail.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 11:38 am)

Yes, the students are becoming aware of the dangers of disgusting Zionism/Israel and their judeo-supremacist advocates, no doubt about that...a good sign.

However, the power brokers (faculty, administration, governing bodies) are overwhelmingly and dangerously judeo-supremacist, pro-Israel.

On the whole I do see change in the wind, it's a matter of how much damage the True Believers do in the meantime.

Regards, Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 2:25 pm)

Hannover wrote:However, the power brokers (faculty, administration, governing bodies) are overwhelmingly and dangerously judeo-supremacist, pro-Israel.


I'd say it's true of the administrators but not of the faculties, just because college professors are more likely to be lefties.

I think we generally agree, however, that few college faculty members who are Holocaust Revisionists will take a public stand. They've been crucifying that psychologist in California who testified for Irving and he's not even a Revisionist. Plus half of what he says is backed up by Jews themselves.

It's a bizarre world we live in.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 3:00 pm)

Yes, Kevin McDonald.

Since when aren't 'lefties' pro-Israel?

- H.
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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:09 pm)

Hannover wrote:Since when aren't 'lefties' pro-Israel?


Since always.

Let's be sure we're on the same page. When I say 'lefties', I'm not talking about Labour or Liberals or Democrats who obviously fall over backwards for Israel. I'm talking about Marxists, socialists and other assorted miscreants that have been tenured at universities here and in the States for decades.

I used to have a Marxist friend who earned a Master's degree in Russian and Soviet History at U. Toronto a decade ago and it was from her that I first heard strong criticisms of Israel that came from a purely political framework. We also have some fairly prominent Jewish Marxists up here that are very critical of Zionism. Oddly many are Holocaust historians. You'll hear words like 'colonialism' and 'imperialism' thrown around a bunch, though I suppose having been born a British subject, I should probably reserve comment.

Back to the point, these are the lefties to whom I refer.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 19, 2003 1:00 pm)

Aside from the misleading 'deny' word, these quotes from a Jew pretty well sum it up:

"If you deny the Nazi Holocaust, you can go to jail in many countries. Denying the communist holocaust will get you a chair at any Western university and tenure at the University of Toronto."

"Jews feature in wildly disproportionate numbers among communists and revolutionaries."

"Jews were not only seen as Christ killers but as the assassins of democracy. Indeed, we were at the leading edge of communist totalitarianism, one of the most murderous movements of the 20th century."

"In my lifetime, with the obvious exception of Nazism, it's hard to think of any political or artistic movement in which Jews have not been statistically overrepresented--from the the 1960s Weathermen to more positive areas of public policy and the arts. It was difficult to be a member of the Black Panthers, but Jewish support of them gave us Radical Chic."

-Barbara Amiel, Maclean's magazine, Sept.27, 1999 & March 20, 2000


The fact that Jews dominate 'academia' answers the question as to why there has been little criticism of the so called 'holocaust' as alleged.

There are bizarre 'holocaust Studies' chairs in universities throughout the land, can anyone imagine any academic who wants to pay his bills speaking up?

While there may be critical statements about apartheid Zionism/Israel from time to time from a few communists, it is the judeo-supremacist inspired & dominated Communism which is largely responsible for the propaganda about the so called 'holocaust'...summarized nicely here:

Communist Jew, Bruno Baum, himself a member of the 'partisans', boasted after the war:

"The entire propaganda which started abroad, was made by us with the help of our Polish mates." - Bruno Baum, »Wir funken aus der Hölle« in Deutsche Volkszeitung - Zentralorgan der KPD, Berlin 31.7.1945.; cf. B. Baum


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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:02 pm)

Hannover wrote:While there may be critical statements about apartheid Zionism/Israel from time to time from a few communists, it is the judeo-supremacist inspired & dominated Communism which is largely responsible for the propaganda about the so called 'holocaust'...summarized nicely here:

Communist Jew, Bruno Baum, himself a member of the 'partisans', boasted after the war:

"The entire propaganda which started abroad, was made by us with the help of our Polish mates." - Bruno Baum, »Wir funken aus der Hölle« in Deutsche Volkszeitung - Zentralorgan der KPD, Berlin 31.7.1945.; cf. B. Baum


Hannover

You are referring to a period that has long passed. Baum made these statements in 1945 when there was a communist superpower that had pro-Jewish elements in its power structure. This is not the case today. There is also no viable communist party in Israel though there was through the 1970's or thereabout and, at last look, the left wing in Israel in general was in a shambles.

If I had to guess, I'd say that the Zionists who propagate the Big Lie are more from the 'conservative' wing of politics than the 'liberal'. Compare your own Republican and Democratic administrations policies toward Israel. The 'religious right' and its self-dubbed 'ultra-conservative' allies are funding the Zionist coffers while the Democrats have been pushing a basically pro-Palestinian agenda for the last decade at least. Look at Clinton and Carter. Compare them to Reagan or Eisenhower, neither of them acknowledging Palestinian rights. There's the substance of the issue, I'd say.

This doesn't mean there aren't 'liberals' who support Israel like Ted Kennedy or 'conservatives' that oppose Israel like Joe Sobran. I just see the pro-Israel wing of mainstream politics more on the right wing and I don't see Marxists as a factor outside the academic sphere. It's the same all over, as I see it.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 20, 2003 1:45 pm)

I think the definition, and the real intent of political groups, can no longer be accurately categorized in a 'left/right' right manner, at least on first appearance....or based upon what they call themselves.

ex.: The all powerful 'Neo-Cons' ('con' men indeed) are former Trotskyites who have morphed into calling themselves 'conservatives' while their sole interest seems to be empire building with Israel and judeo interests, such as the 'holocaust' scam and genocide against the Palestinians, as the central focus....Israel as the de facto capitol.
All of this requires massive government, massive spending, massive loss of civil liberties, massive loss of Gentile life, and throwing the Constitution out the window.....not very 'conservative'.

To categorize pro-Israel/judeo-supremacist support as 'conservative' is to overlook the proof in the pudding. Building up support for Zionist judeo-supremacist interests has required name changing, obfuscation, a veritable mirage....whatever is expedient at the time.

Soon we will be seeing calls to make 'holocaust' Revisionist thinking illegal in the US...a la Marxist laws which made 'antisemitism' illegal, but not antigentilism.

Let's not stray too far from our central theme here, 'holocau$t' Revisionism.

- H.
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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:15 pm)

The same is true of 'Blair's' government, all now being called fascist's, yet nearly all to a man/woman were once commie's and members of hardline leftwing groups, including the CND. Oh how they contort and twist.

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:00 am)

I think the definition, and the real intent of political groups, can no longer be accurately categorized in a 'left/right' right manner, at least on first appearance....or based upon what they call themselves.


I tend to agree, thus my exceptions of Kennedy and Sobran. They certainly aren't alone.

ex.: The all powerful 'Neo-Cons' ('con' men indeed) are former Trotskyites who have morphed into calling themselves 'conservatives' while their sole interest seems to be empire building with Israel and judeo interests, such as the 'holocaust' scam and genocide against the Palestinians, as the central focus....Israel as the de facto capitol.
All of this requires massive government, massive spending, massive loss of civil liberties, massive loss of Gentile life, and throwing the Constitution out the window.....not very 'conservative'.


I don't think the neoconservatives are former Trotskyists. If so, I'd be interested to hear differently. Certainly the neoconservatives tilted from their liberalism on the issue of Israel. As for 'throwing out the Constitution', I don't know enough about US constitutional issues but I know you don't have the laws we have up here.

To categorize pro-Israel/judeo-supremacist support as 'conservative' is to overlook the proof in the pudding. Building up support for Zionist judeo-supremacist interests has required name changing, obfuscation, a veritable mirage....whatever is expedient at the time.


I don't understand what you mean above. Can you please elucidate?

Soon we will be seeing calls to make 'holocaust' Revisionist thinking illegal in the US...a la Marxist laws which made 'antisemitism' illegal, but not antigentilism.


There's nothing 'Marxist' about abridgement of free speech. The Nazis attacked free speech as viciously as the Russians did.

Let's not stray too far from our central theme here, 'holocau$t' Revisionism.


I believe these issues are all germane to the central theme. If we don't understand the nature of the assault, then how can we fight it?

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:02 am)

Turpitz wrote:The same is true of 'Blair's' government, all now being called fascist's, yet nearly all to a man/woman were once commie's and members of hardline leftwing groups, including the CND. Oh how they contort and twist.


That's absurd (not you but calling Blair a 'fascist'.) While he's not as far left as some of his Labour predecessors, he's still not Major - or Thatcher.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Mon Jul 21, 2003 12:57 am)

"these guys have acted as a Trojan Horse inside the conservative movement for years"
- Justin Raimondo
www.antiwar.com


Nice treatments here on the lefty 'Neo-Cons':

OUTING THE NEOCONS
They don't like it one bit!

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j052303.html

here:

TROTSKY, STRAUSS, AND THE NEOCONS
War Party's leftist and elitist roots exposed

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j061303.html

and here:

OUR REDS, AND THEIRS
A Stalinist joins the War Party – and is welcomed with open arms

http://www.antiwar.com/justin/j013103.html

Ah yes, the left morphs to satisfy their Zionist agenda.

When free speech exposes judeo-supremacist interests it becomes illegal...a la Thought Police laws against Revisionist views in Europe & Canada.
There is no other period in world history which is protected from scrutiny, free inquiry, and debate such as the events alleged during the so called 'holocau$t'.

Only lies need protection from debate.

It's no wonder that non-Zionist academics fear to speak up.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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