Database of inmates who died in Auschwitz on WWW

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Hannover
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 25, 2003 4:59 pm)

And what physical evidence would that be?

Please stop the obfuscation. Stay on topic.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 25, 2003 5:10 pm)

Hannover wrote:And what physical evidence would that be?

Please stop the obfuscation. Stay on topic.

- Hannover


I have remained consistently on-topic here, the topic being the fate of Jews sent to Auschwitz if we agree (and we do) that they were not gassed. I find your assessement that my questions are 'obfuscating' insulting.

I have repeatedly said that our own positions require the physical evidence that exterminationists positions lack. So if we are going to say that the Jews were shipped from Auschwitz to somewhere else, then physical evidence of these shipments would only strengthen our hand. Would it not?

I can't be any more clear than this. What would constitute physical evidence would be official German documents authorising such movements. And I've asked the direct question: do these authorisations exist? If they do not, then it's senseless IMO to muse on how they might have been 'misplaced'. It makes us look like the conspiracy theorists that the Industry themselves are.

For my own part, it seems far more plausible that nowhere near the number of Jews they claim were sent to Auschwitz were ever sent there. And as TMoran has pointed out here and has been written by Sanning and other, there probably weren't enough Jews to make up a million in shipments from all over Europe.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:21 pm)

You still don't get it. Without evidence that these 'unregistered' were murdered the whole point is idle speculation and irrelevant. You have the cart before the horse.

And you still fail to comment on relevant links I gave you.

Sorry Alain, the conspiracy theorists are the True Believers, it is they that have a wild, bizarre scheme in their heads that the 'unregistered' were gassed. Revisionists simply say 'no evidence, no holocaust'.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 25, 2003 6:50 pm)

Actually it's not the end of the argument because the exterminationists have already alleged that the vast majority of Jews killed at Auschwitz were cremated. They have attempted to prove this and Revisionists like Mattogno and others have, I believe, successfully refuted them. But more counterarguments and counter-counterarguments are likely to surface.



Yes, they alleged the Jews were cremated, (It has not always been like that) after they were buried and then exhumed. Obviously they are not going to 'Cough up' their grave with bodies because it does not exist.
All the same, it is supposed to have existed, regardless of whether it is empty, it should still be there. Let's get down to basic's here. You did a pit for 1 Million, then you dig it back up again and empty it, then you re-fill it (All in utter secrecy of course) such mind boggling earth movements that any rational person knows damn well would stain the surface of the earth for millenia...So where is it ? It does not simply blend back into the surroundings after sixty years. And you know as well as I that if it ever did exist, you and I would be chewing on it for breakfast, Dinner, Tea and supper, everyday day of the year.

Yes I am sure counter-arguments are likely to surface. That is known as side-stepping and dodging the fundemental's.

The amazing vanishing pit, for the holy one-million.

Clever German's, put every stone back in it's place.

Obviously you are more inclined to the theory aspect, whereas I like Sailor am more inclined to look at it from the logical and practical side of things.

Pit's that size simply don't disappear my friend, Regardless of whether they are empty. In fact, the very fact that it was dug over twice would worsen the scar's to the ground... Major, Major flaw in the H-Industry.

Before you even get onto the cremation side of the story, It is null and void, because the pit from whence the corpses you are about to burn came from, is non-existent!

I only realised the other day that all this was meant to have taken place in '44'. The allies had total control of air-space by this time. And not one shred of factual evidence exist's of this magnificant task. Don't tell me, they left the len's caps on the the cameras.

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:15 pm)

Hannover wrote:And you still fail to comment on relevant links I gave you.


I didn't realise I was duty-bound to do so.

Mr Hannover you are once again begging the question. You make the assumption (as do most of us here, myself included) that there was no extermination at Auschwitz. But then, based on your own conclusion, you shoot down other requests for information because you believe your point speaks for itself.

It doesn't. All assertions ('they were sent to other camps') require evidence.

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Postby Alain » 1 decade 6 years ago (Fri Jul 25, 2003 7:18 pm)

Turpitz wrote:Yes, they alleged the Jews were cremated, (It has not always been like that) after they were buried and then exhumed.


I'm sorry but this is incorrect. While the Industry does claim this about Treblinka, it has never been claimed about Auschwitz. The argument has always been that the crematoria were built to facilitate the burning of bodies. No mass burials were alleged to have happened at Auschwitz.

In being Revisionists, it is most important that we know the history we are seeking to revise.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 26, 2003 1:48 am)

Yes, it would appear that there was a bit if confusion.

However, this may help.

Holocau$t Industry shyster & spokesman, John Zimmerman, claims ***500,000*** Jews were cremated in open pits at Auschwitz - over half of the Auschwitz victims are supposed to have been killed in the last 6 months the camp was in operation.

Required, huge pits -- assuming it was even possible to do this -- do not show up in the aerial photos. There are no such massive cremation pits.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 26, 2003 5:00 pm)

I'm sorry but this is incorrect. While the Industry does claim this about Treblinka, it has never been claimed about Auschwitz. The argument has always been that the crematoria were built to facilitate the burning of bodies. No mass burials were alleged to have happened at Auschwitz.


Okay my apologies, My knowledge is not as good as It could be on the total in's and out's of the Industry, but nevertheless there were pits here, and there were pit's there. And even though I got the location wrong, It still hold's true that, where-ever the industry say these pit's are, there is no evidence of them, and never has been. And if they ever existed, they would stand out like a sore thumb today. It would be simple to locate them from the viewpoint a Helicopter permits one to get. They use Helicopter's to locate Roman settlement's all the time, and they stand out a mile, even after all these years.

There is not a H-Industry site on the internet that does not make reference to these pit's at least once, yet they back up their assertions with not the slightest proof. These pit's are the one of the very foundation stones of the whole industry, yet they stumble and fall miserably, at this very first hurdle.

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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 26, 2003 6:23 pm)

So what are you saying here, That Auschwitz inmates (500.000) were burned in open-air pits because the ovens could not cope. And Treblinka was where the mass graves (how many?) were exhumed so as to be burnt!

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sat Jul 26, 2003 7:55 pm)

Turpitz:

Yes, part of the 'holocau$t' story says that 500,000 were cremated in open air pits at Auschwitz due to the lack of capacity of the crematoria. There is no evidence of these huge cremation pits to support this story.

note: the water table at Auschwitz is about 2 feet below the surface

At Treblinka, ca. 900,000 are said to have been buried in an enormous pit, exhumed, and later cremated on pyres in plain view of everyone. There is absolutely no indication of this pit ever existing, none.

Search Treblinka using the 'search' function above and read more, it's quite an amazing and easily debunked lie.

- Hannover
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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:31 am)

Hannover wrote: We already know there were no gassing victims, but what needs to be said is that the 'death books' do not cover the entire period. I'm not sure what the exact missing months are, but I recall that if they were factored in the total would have been ca. 75,000.

The death books which were found don’t cover the deaths in 1940, only half of the year 1941, only partially the years 1942, 1943, and not at all the year 1944.

Based strictly on time the total number of deaths could very well be extrapolated to twice the number of documented deaths, or say 130,000.

Why wouldn't deaths of the 'unregistered' be logged like everyone else?

Exactly, why not?

These are the links to copies of two pages from the Auschwitz Sterbebücher:
http://vho.org/VffG/2002/4/Image7.gif
http://vho.org/VffG/2002/4/Image8.gif

It appears from these, that no reference is made to any registration numbers of the dead inmates at all in the death books. Those two may very well have been non-registered Jewish inmates.

Therefore it seems to me, that it is part of the Holocaust myth that only the deaths of registered Jews are recorded in the death books and not the non-registered Jews, created in order to be able to extrapolate the number of deaths to any high number as seems fit (the sky is the limit).

And to a German to not record the death of an inmate in this case, even if not registered, is unthinkable (some superior might come back to him to give him the “holy Donnerwetter”. Germans are scared of the boss man).

:D
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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 27, 2003 10:45 am)

Alain wrote: This points to a bit of a gap that I see in Revisionist studies - that is, are there records of transit beyond Auschwitz?

I have been asked this question before, many times. Usually in connection with deportations or resettlements of Jews to the east, to Russia (Wannsee, Korherr come to mind).

Records of transfers from Auschwitz are scarce. Maybe they were lost, destroyed, or are kept locked in some archive. Some records exist of arrivals in other camps from Auschwitz, the camp Stutthof comes to mind, so does Dachau, Bergen-Belsen.

Also it should be kept in mind, that Auschwitz comprised a whole complex of sub-camps, with Birkenau and Monowitz the major ones. I believe that there were 50 other camps associated with and administered from Auschwitz. I assume that the inmates of those camps came all through Auschwitz.

David Irving claims that the Auschwitz camp administration reported all incoming and all departing prisoners on a daily basis to Berlin by radio. He says that these messages were intercepted and decoded by the British. If correct, there should be a large quantity of copies of the transfer records in some British archive.

:D
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 27, 2003 12:21 pm)

Sailor,
Thanks for the clarification, I wasn't aware of the exact time lengths that were missing, good to know.

Upon looking at the links you provided, I'm wondering if the number in the upper left (with year) are not the registration numbers. Any thoughts on that?

You also supported my point made earlier with Alain when I told him we know there were unregistered inmates sent to other camps and therefore there must have been records of their transport from Auschwitz.

You mentioned that there are arrival records of inmates from Auschwitz to other camps. But curiously, we cannot find the departure records, which is fishy to say the least. That supports my opinion that the departure records were 'purged' from the Auschwitz records, or maybe I should say, 'have conveniently disappeared'.

- Hannover
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Postby Turpitz » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:21 pm)

The death books which were found don’t cover the deaths in 1940


I thought Auschwitz didn't open until '42'. Or are these Death Books for all Auschwitz's sister camps as well ?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Jul 27, 2003 1:54 pm)

It has a long history, but as a German camp it was indeed established in 1940.

- H.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.


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