The Eichmann trial

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Frederik Jensen
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Postby Frederik Jensen » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Jul 11, 2007 10:40 am)

It appears to be a picture of man number 3. Neither Eichmann nor the (pseudo) Eichmann in the glass case at the trial.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:15 am)

Frederik Jensen wrote:It appears to be a picture of man number 3. Neither Eichmann nor the (pseudo) Eichmann in the glass case at the trial.


photo #3:
Image
passport:
Image
Eichmann:
Image

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Jul 11, 2007 11:33 am)

Photo3 < Eichmann aged more than years.

Eichmann photo (posted above by Hannover) < supposedly Eichmann in 1940 according to "About.com".

Examine those two photographs.

Same ears. Same nose. Same type of forehead. Same type of hairline. Same type of cavity in the chin.

I am not buying into this "fake Eichmann" until credible proof has been offered - and up untill now, nothing of substantiative value has been offered.

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Postby _Mads_ » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Jul 11, 2007 1:01 pm)

Photo 3 cannot be used as evidence, because it might have been (or has probably been) subjected to some manipulation regarding forehead wrinkles and quite possibly other traits (as I noted in the first post). The comparison has to be made to the man who appears in the videos.

Photo 3 obviously does show the man in the glass case, but it would appear that the manipulation that this photo has been subjected to (including most or all of the traits mentioned by Haldan) has also produced a rather weird look. However, in spite of the manipulation, the forehead or entire upper skull still is incomparably larger, in relation to the face between eyes and chin, than on the 1940 photo. It also would seem that the hanging left eyelid is missing on photo 3.

But it should be said once again that there are other proofs than these pictures, in my opinion. Everybody is free to discuss this man´s use of the German language, his knowledge about the German camp system, his behavior or conduct in court, which has now also been commented on by Frederik and jnovitz, and several other issues.

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Postby Frederik Jensen » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Jul 12, 2007 6:35 am)

Comparing with the videos this actually could be the photo of the same man, which would mean that the identity of pseudo-Eichmann would allready be found. Shaving of the bird, putting on some other glasses, becomig thinner and ten years older and making some strange facial expressions this could very well be the same man.

The Israeli authorities probably wouldn't have kept this false passport. But if this was brought forward by the Argentinian state, things would fit. The language appears to be Italian.

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:20 pm)

What puzzles me about this passport - apart from the lack of stamp on the photo - is why the Red Cross is issuing identity documents to an Italian national in Italy.

Its not as though he is stateless as he claimed to be born in Bolzano.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Jul 12, 2007 12:50 pm)

Passports typically contain several pages. In looking at this 'passport', I am struck by the fact that we see only one page, no official stamps, markings, etc. Are there photos of the entire document, or is this it?

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Frederik Jensen » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:29 pm)

Summing up the main points of the case:

1. The Holocaust story telling

Pseudo Eichmann begins with the statement: "I think this is one of the greatest crimes in history". He keeps on playing the reversed role of a holocaust witness, again and again postulating that the story is true and thereby acts contrary to the Germans accused in Nuremberg.

2. The language abilities

Pseudo Eichmann speaks with a strong accent and commits several errors in German, indicating that he isn't a native speaker. At the same time, he does speak both Hebrew and Yiddisch fluently.

3. The mistake of the cities names

Pseudo Eichmann names the cities wrong and, when realizing the mistake, becomes visibly disstressed and listens very carefully to the instructions of the prosecutor and judge.

4. The pictures

Earlier pictures of Eichmann are very or (depending on the picture) completely different from the pseudo Eichmann of the trial.

5. The identity of the man

The man tried in Israel lived in Argentina under the name Ricardo Klement. One Richard Klement is falsely stated to have died at Majdanek in 1942 (Yad Vashem records). A picture of an apparent passport from 1950 shows a man, who looks somewhat like Pseudo Eichmann.

Untill now, not one single point of the original post has been disproved in the thread, which has centered mainly on discovering more things of interest, notably the above mentioned point 5.

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Jul 18, 2007 1:46 pm)

I have a specimen of Eichmann's writing from during the war. Are there any examples online of his memoirs written in captivity that I could compare to?

I do have one source but its not very good resolution so although the two scripts do look different it is difficult to be sure. I will post it sometime.

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Postby Frederik Jensen » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:56 pm)

From where do those writings of his during the war come, is it from among those writings which were handed over to David Irving as I remember it about ten years ago from a friend of the Klement family?

Looking at the Yad Vashem records, there are two Richard Klement claimed to have died during the war. The man wouldn't be the Majdanek one, but the Auschwitz guy (postulated death 1943 Auschwitz). His language would have been German, which fits perfectly with the language abilities of pseudo Eichmann (an (among other languages) German-speaking Jew living in Prague). But what is really interesting, is that the name of the mother is stated to be Anna in the Yad Vashem records of Richard Klement. Now, looking at the passport of Ricardo Klement, it says the name of the mother is, yes, Anna.

The passport was apparently found by a student going through some old archives in Argentina, given to a local judge and turned over to the Holocaust museum of Buenos Aires.

It was issued by the Red Cross. The organization itself reacted like this (from some internet source):

"The International Committee of the Red Cross's office in Buenos Aires said the document, which it describes as a ``temporary safe-conduct,'' was issued to Eichmann after he presented a false name and identity papers. The organization has never had the means to check the identity of applicants, the office said in an e-mailed statement.

The Red Cross has issued more than half a million such documents since 1945 to enable people without valid travel papers, including former prisoners of war and survivors of concentration camps, start a new life in another country, the statement said."

Richard Klement would apparently have turned up at the Red Cross, claiming to be from the German-speaking community of the city Bolzano given himself a new date of birth but otherwise keeping his own name almost completely unchanged and retaining the name of his mother (we do know, the mothers are important in Jewish tradition - the father is stated to be unknown).

The things are coming together taking on the form of irrefutable proof:

Richard Klement was the man.

If you want to watch this friggin link, copy & paste it into NotePad and remove all line feeds in it and then put it in your browser's location bar.
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Code: Select all

http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/!ut/p/_s.7_0_A/7_0_FL/.cmd/
acd/.ar/sa.portlet.FromDetailsSubmitAction/.c/6_0_9D/.ce/7_0_FP/.p/5_0_9D
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%B0%D1%80%D0%B4&victim_details_id=859560&imagenum=0&searchfor=0

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Postby Frederik Jensen » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Jul 21, 2007 4:35 am)

For some reason the link did work on my computer, but otherwise you could just try this:

http://www.yadvashem.org/wps/portal/IY_HON_Welcome

and search for Richard Klement. The two Richard Klements are both born 15/04/1898 in Czechoslovakia and would be the same person. In the Auschwitz version the material was submitted by an acquaintance in German. The first name is stated to be either Richard or Rikhard, probably indiacting that it could be spelled different according to language. Then, changing name to Riccardo, when going to Italy, is quite the natural thing to do.

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Jul 22, 2007 12:54 pm)

From where do those writings of his during the war come, is it from among those writings which were handed over to David Irving as I remember it about ten years ago from a friend of the Klement family?


Its a fairly secure source. The Berlin Document Center SS personnel files.

I have started a new thread as the images are quite large and will disrupt this one.

In short the two scripts are very different but the way the name is written is the same on both. I am suggesting whoever wrote the memoirs (or at least a letter released recently) used the BDC files as a guide to write the name but just wrote the rest of the text in his normal, very different style.

If you are good at image manipulation and can get these files down to an acceptable size and still maintain resolution by all means do and post them in this thread.

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Postby Frederik Jensen » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:54 am)

The Importance of the Eichmann Trial

According to Jewish Professor of history, Peter Novick, The Eichmann trial was the "catalyst" of the Holocaust lie. From his book "The Holocaust in American Life" (pp.128 and 144) :

"Would those things by themselves have been the catalyst of a sustained increase in talk of the Holocaust? We'll never know, for close on their heels came a much greater catalyst: David Ben-Gurions dramatic announcement to the Knesset that Israeli agents had captured Adolf Eichmann in Argentina..."

"The Eichmann trial, along with the controversies over Arendt's book and Hochhuth's play, effectively broke fifteen years of near silence on the Holocaust in American public discourse. As part of this process, there emerged in American culture a distinct thing called "the Holocaust"..."

Jewish Hannah Arendt was one of the countless journalists reporting on the Eichmann trial. The book referred to above is her "Eichmann in Jerusalem"

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Re: The Eichmann trial

Postby ginger » 5 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:53 pm)

Video 1, Wannsee Conference: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqbWOYO6bAg

This is from the Moderator at the beginning of this topic. It is on you tube but it is in German and Chinese. Can anyone translate it for me? Could you tell me where in the 200 hours of the Eichmann trial on you tube this appears?

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Re: The Eichmann trial

Postby TheBlackRabbitofInlé » 5 years 7 months ago (Fri Mar 07, 2014 5:31 pm)

Eichmann was quizzed about Wannsee during Sessions 78, 79 and 100. All of which you can find here:
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/people/e/eichmann-adolf/transcripts/Sessions/index-04.html

Session 78 (some of it, Wannsee bit towards the end)


Session 79 (some of it)


Session 100 (some of it)
Nazis tried to create super-soldiers, using steroids ... they sought to reanimate the dead—coffins of famous Germanic warriors were found hidden in a mine, with plans to bring them back to life at the war’s end.
- Prof. Noah Charney


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