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aerial photos

Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 3:32 am)

Hannover wrote:
** Please show us the "camouflage".

** Please show us the "gas insertion" on the roof.


Both the camouflaging screen and the location of the gas insertion are visible here:

http://www.mazal.org/Auschwitz%20Aerial ... 186-cu.htm

Then where are the alleged insertion holes in the pictures?


they are included in the marks.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 5:45 am)

But Max, you said the laughable scribble marks on the roofs were "paths" for the SS guys, but now you say they're insertion devices. What's it gonna be?

And, using your example, each of these insertion holes would be about 10 feet in length...not what the bogus testimony says; and if you want to try and say they are shadows...well, they're going at a completely different angle than the chimney...my my.

As for the alleged "camouflage", well, see this:
http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/
No camouflage, but fences that anyone could see right through
see here:
http://www.air-photo.com/grap/july1944.jpg
No "camouflage"
Then there's this one with incomplete "camouflage" ....whoever added it wasn't too consistent...oops:
http://www.air-photo.com/grap/may1944_2.jpg

Curious the Mazal would darken his photo, the ones shown here are much clearer. Don't forget to read Rudolf's thorough debunking:
http://vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html
scroll down a bit

also see here:
http://www.fpp.co.uk/Auschwitz/docs/con ... index.html
You just gotta love the photo underneath the roof where there is no signs of holes or that they ever existed.

There are many more examples.

- Hannover

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 7:35 am)

Hannover:"And, using your example, each of these insertion holes would be about 10 feet in length"

But I have not claimed that the entire black marks are shadows or holes. It's a straw man argument.

The "orthodox" interpretation of the marks is that they include "the shadows of the vents, but also including roof discoloration marks perhaps from people walking around the area of the vents, causing discoloration of the roof, which showed up as the marks visible in the photos of the roof of the gas chamber" (Dino A. Brugioni, one of the authors of the CIA report, paraphrased by Charles Provan http://www.revisingrevisionism.com )

So if Germar Rudolf is showing that the entire marks couldn't be shadows, he only confirms the "orthodox" interpretation!

Regarding the security screen, yes, the Germans extended and moved this fence between May 31, 1944 and August 25, 1944. In the May photo the screen only covers the north and west side as well as the homicidal gas-chamber in the south. In the August photo, more screen has been added by the Germans and it covers the entire area now. Clever guys!
And it sounds plausible.

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Postby TMoran » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 11:50 am)

MAX declares:
Regarding the security screen, yes, the Germans extended and moved this fence between May 31, 1944 and August 25, 1944. In the May photo the screen only covers the north and west side as well as the homicidal gas-chamber in the south. In the August photo, more screen has been added by the Germans and it covers the entire area now. Clever guys!
And it sounds plausible.


Pressac said:
According to Pressac on page 341 of his grand tome, 'Auschwitz: The Techniques and Operation of the Gas Chambers' he says in caption below one of the ground shots, "As there has never been any camouflage around Krema II and III, except in the imagination of traditional historians".

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:29 pm)

Also Pressac can be in error. Tells how he supports his conclusion.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:47 pm)

Max:
Regarding the security screen, yes, the Germans extended and moved this fence between May 31, 1944 and August 25, 1944. In the May photo the screen only covers the north and west side as well as the homicidal gas-chamber in the south. In the August photo, more screen has been added by the Germans and it covers the entire area now. Clever guys!
And it sounds plausible.


I don't see any screens around the Krema II.

Image

Photo taken May 1944
Looking though a wire fence to the front of a cremation building. The new arrivals are most likely walking from the train unloading ramp to the Central Sauna for a hot shower and a haircut. People would have seen inside the buildings and yards and heard any commotion or screams, yet the Germans made no attempt to build solid fences or cover the wire, as would be expected if they were murdering many hundreds of inmates a day. In the right rear is the soccer and sports field, with its visible flagpole

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 12:51 pm)

Max dodges the photos I linked to that reveals no "camouflage", but still insists it was there, odd. And then he says that the phantom camouflage was moved around at certain times....I guess so that it would not be camouflaging what the tale says was it supposed to be camouflaging in the 1st place... odd again.

Then he tries to say the scribbly lines were both the "insertion" holes, shadows, AND paths made by the SS, even though there is no distinction between them....they just magically blended together, right. He claims there are shadows from the 'holes', which as I stated and he dodged, do not go at the same angle as the chimney shadow....that's a major problem for Max and the believers. Tell me how the Germans could manage to get the shadows going in a different direction, Max.

Naturally, he dodges this study by Rudolf:
http://vho.org/GB/c/GR/RudolfOnVanPelt.html

He cites Provan, but then dodges the link that shoots down Provan, who, by the way, contradicts Mazal, whose photo he posted as "proof", oops.

Max, come on over. We all used to believe just like you. No shame in admitting you have been duped.

- Hannover

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:17 pm)

Sailor wrote:
I don't see any screens around the Krema II.

http://www.air-photo.com/grap/camp3.jpg


You don't see the screens around Krema II because you are not even looking at it!

This is Krema III! And I don't see the screen around Krema III on the May photo. Hence, Sailor has confirmed the traditional interpretation.

Photo taken May 1944
Looking though a wire fence to the front of a cremation building. The new arrivals are most likely walking from the train unloading ramp to the Central Sauna for a hot shower and a haircut.


There is no evidence that these arrivals were walking to the Sauna and Sailor knows this. In fact, the evidence indicates the very opposite, since there is no photograph of any Jew not selected for work after this alleged shower. On the other hand, the entire process of what happened to those who were selected for labour is shown. The lack of evidence is evidence in this case, and supports that the victims we see on the picture were murdered soon.

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:33 pm)

Hannover wrote:Max dodges the photos I linked to that reveals no "camouflage", but still insists it was there, odd.


Nothing is odd. The first picture you linked was taken during a entirely different period and is therefore irrelevant for this question. I don't know if there is the screen in the July Luftwaffe photo. We need to see this photo in the same sharpness as the other aerial photos.


And then he says that the phantom camouflage was moved around at certain times....I guess so that it would not be camouflaging what the tale says was it supposed to be camouflaging in the 1st place... odd again.

Nothing odd, again. The screen was simply extended between May and August. This is not odd, but plausible as I pointed out.

The rest of Hannover's post was already addressed here and has missed the point completely. I recommend that he read it again.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:33 pm)

So, the story states that there was no "camouflage" around both II & III? Is that the story? Do tell.

I see you have abandoned your "holes, shadows, paths" pitch.

And this gets the Spin Job Illogical Statement Award:
The lack of evidence is evidence in this case, and supports that the victims we see on the picture were murdered soon.


- Hannover

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Postby max » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 1:44 pm)

Hannover wrote:So, the story states that there was no "camouflage" around both II & III? Is that the story? Do tell.

No.

"the story" is what the photographs show, and they show the screen around Krema II on the May and August photograph.

And this gets the Spin Job Illogical Statement Award:


LOL

I fear you have completely misunderstood what I was talking about. Read it again! I was talking about the lack of evidence that the victims were not deloused for which they should be evidence if it occured so. This lack of evidence supports the other thesis, that they were murdered.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 2:28 pm)

Max said:
"the story" is what the photographs show, and they show the screen around Krema II on the May and August photograph


And, among other things that you dodged, the photographs show "shadows" at different angles compared to the chimney.

Was there supposed to be "camouflage" around both Kremas II & III according to the standard story? Yes or no.
Quit dodging or leave the thread.

- Hannover

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 4:08 pm)

Max::
This is Krema III!


Max is correct. It is Krema III. But the doctored-up aerial view picture of Krema III also shows a thick air-brushed line around it. I wonder what that is! It does not appear on the picture I posted.

There is no evidence that these arrivals were walking to the Sauna and Sailor knows this. In fact, the evidence indicates the very opposite, since there is no photograph of any Jew not selected for work after this alleged shower. On the other hand, the entire process of what happened to those who were selected for labour is shown. The lack of evidence is evidence in this case, and supports that the victims we see on the picture were murdered soon.


The text underneath the picture is from J. Ball.

No, Sailor does not know this at all!
There is plenty of evidence that new camp arrivals were first deloused, cleaned and had their hair cut.

“there is no photograph of any Jew not selected for work after this alleged shower”
Yes there is. A picture of women after their sauna and hair cut. I will post the link, have to do some digging first.

“The lack of evidence is evidence in this case[…]”
What? That sounds very much like believer’s talk.

fge

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 5:05 pm)

Max:
Please leave this thread. You are going in circles without addressing challenges to support the points you attempt to make. Rambling assertions without support can only be tolerated so long, I had hoped you would eventually address the challenges. Instead you keep posting while ignoring legitimate challenges. That has the effect of cluttering the threads with hollow text, a typical distraction technique. Re-read the posting guidelines if need be.

Thanks for your cooperation, Moderator

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Postby Scott » 1 decade 6 years ago (Sun Dec 08, 2002 6:32 pm)

What is piled in front of Krema III? Are those bodies stacked like cordwood--on the outside?

Image

[Edited by me to read Krema III instead of II. My mistake.]
Last edited by Scott on Wed Feb 12, 2003 9:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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