D. Keren lies about open 'gas chamber' doors / see IMAGES!

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Hannover
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D. Keren lies about open 'gas chamber' doors / see IMAGES!

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jul 16, 2007 2:14 pm)

source:
http://remember.org/History.root.rev.html
2.03 Gas Chambers Could Not Have Been Opened Safely in 20-30 Minutes

The claim is often heard that it takes 20 hours to air a room which was disinfected with Zyklon-B, and therefore the eyewitness accounts giving a time of 20-30 minutes from when the gassing started to when the bodies where carried out is impossible, because the people carrying out the bodies would perish.

It is true that if one disinfects a building in ordinary commercial use, it should not be reentered within 20 hours. That figure, however, has no meaning relative to the extermination chambers, which were forcibly ventilated. Fifteen minutes was ample time to replace the air after a gassing. When ventilation was not used, the Sonderkommando (prisoners used as forced labor) who removed the bodies wore gas masks. The Germans had plenty of experience with gas, especially HCN, which was widely used for delousing. They knew how to work with it safely. It is absurd to use the 20 hour figure in this context, as it does not assume forced ventilation and takes a huge safety factor into account. The SS didn't care much for the safety of the Sonderkommando who had to enter the gas chambers to take the corpses out in any event. In some cases, these people did suffer from the remaining gas (see, for instance, Pressac, p. 473)

Furthermore, what makes ventilation difficult and lengthy is the presence of rugs, furniture, curtains, etc. Needless to say, these were not present in the gas chambers - there was just bare concrete, making ventilation very fast and efficient.

If the "20 hours ventilation period" above was true, this would mean that the corpses of people executed using cyanide gas in US prisons would remain tied to the chair 20 hours after they were killed... clearly nonsense, as Fred Leuchter, who claims expertise in gas chamber operation, would hopefully know.

Masks or no masks, where would the cyanide gas be 'ventilated' to?

What would the Germans do with the highly active Zyklon-B which would continue outgassing for hours?

Keren continues lying:
2.09 If the gas chambers were ventilated, the gas would kill people outside.

Nonsense; it is all a question of concentration. Once the gas is released into the atmosphere, its concentration drops and it is no longer dangerous. Also, HCN dissipates quickly. The execution gas chambers in US prisons are also ventilated directly into the atmosphere. Furthermore, if this argument would hold for the extermination chambers, it would hold for the delousing chambers as well, and one would have to conclude that no delousing chambers existed either.

Wrong.
The delousing chambers were not opened until the activity of the Zyklon-B was completed, the delousing chambers were not opened after a few minutes while the Zyklon-B was releasing it's cyanide load as the story says about the absurd 'gas chambers'.

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jul 16, 2007 4:03 pm)

Keren says:
The execution gas chambers in US prisons are also ventilated directly into the atmosphere.

Wrong. No, dishonest.

from:
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm
LETHAL GAS
Image
Procedure: State statutes typically and simply provide: "The punishment of death must be inflicted by the administration of a lethal gas."

The execution protocol for most jurisdictions authorizes the use of a steel airtight execution chamber, equipped with a chair and attached restraints. The inmate is restrained at his chest, waist, arms, and ankles, and wears a mask during the execution. The chair is equipped with a metal container beneath the seat. Cyanide pellets are placed in this container. A metal canister is on the floor under the container filled with a sulfuric acid solution. There are three executioners, and each executioner turns one key. When the three keys are turned, an electric switch causes the bottom of the cyanide container to open allowing the cyanide to fall into the sulfuric acid solution, producing a lethal gas. Unconsciousness can occur within a few seconds if the prisoner takes a deep breath. However, if he or she holds their breath death can take much longer, and the prisoner usually goes into wild convulsions. A heart monitor attached to the inmate is read in the control room, and after the warden pronounces the inmate dead, ammonia is pumped into the execution chamber to neutralize the gas. Exhaust fans then remove the inert fumes from the chamber into two scrubbers that contain water and serve as a neutralizing agent. The neutralizing process takes approximately 30 minutes from the time the offender's death is determined.
http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/methods.htm

Keren exposed again as another 'holocaust' liar.

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Postby Sailor » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:15 pm)

The HCN gas in US gas chambers is after the execution first chemically neutralized with ammonium from the executed and the chamber walls and only then released and the body removed.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Mon Jul 16, 2007 10:59 pm)

If the SS had wished to utilize Morgue I in Krema II (or III) as a Zyklon B gaschamber they would have installed a highly effective ventilation and neutralization system. Yet the actual ventilation system in the "gas chamber" is (proportionally to the size of the room) not more effective than the ventilation in the "undressing room" (Morgue 2). On the other hand, the ventilation systems in the Zyklon B delousing gaschambers at the "Sauna" are about 10 times more effective. Go figure.

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Postby PLAYWRIGHT » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:25 am)

Furthermore, what makes ventilation difficult and lengthy is the presence of rugs, furniture, curtains, etc. Needless to say, these were not present in the gas chambers - there was just bare concrete, making ventilation very fast and efficient.


No, there was NOT just "bare concrete". There would have been a huge body pile, making ventilation just as difficult and lengthy as the presence of rugs, furniture, curtains, etc. In fact, it would have been more difficult -some of the bodies would have interefered with the ventilation intakes and outakes; the volume taken up by the corpses would have been much greater than household items, crowding the chamber and making air currents sluggish; and unlike rugs, furniture, etc., the bodies would have had HCN dissolved in their body fluids, emitting gas for some hours; plus the bodies at the bottom of the pile wouldn't be affected by ventilation at all, making them dangerous as the pile was disassembled.

Also, the concrete wasn't bare, it was plastered. That wouldn't interfere with ventilation, but it tells me he didn't read Pressac very carefully.

Finally, forced ventilation was found only in Krema's II and III. Krema's IV and V supposedly worked off of natural air currents when the doors were opened. Lets see him try to postulate the time for ventilaton on THAT one.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:42 pm)

PLAYWRIGHT wrote:No, there was NOT just "bare concrete". There would have been a huge body pile, making ventilation just as difficult and lengthy as the presence of rugs, furniture, curtains, etc. In fact, it would have been more difficult -some of the bodies would have interefered with the ventilation intakes and outakes; the volume taken up by the corpses would have been much greater than household items


Touche.

Even if it had been possible to ventilate the gaschamber while removing the corpses (as some witnesses claim), just getting half of the approx. 2000 corpses out of the chamber would have taken significant time (it could hardly have been done in less than 1 hr). The pile of corpses would thus pose an obstacle during the entire course of ventilation.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:50 pm)

Laurentz Dahl wrote:
PLAYWRIGHT wrote:No, there was NOT just "bare concrete". There would have been a huge body pile, making ventilation just as difficult and lengthy as the presence of rugs, furniture, curtains, etc. In fact, it would have been more difficult -some of the bodies would have interefered with the ventilation intakes and outakes; the volume taken up by the corpses would have been much greater than household items


Touche.

Even if it had been possible to ventilate the gaschamber while removing the corpses (as some witnesses claim), just getting half of the approx. 2000 corpses out of the chamber would have taken significant time (it could hardly have been done in less than 1 hr). The pile of corpses would thus pose an obstacle during the entire course of ventilation.


Nope, one hour would be too little time. It should take a considerable amount of time to empty the alleged "gas chamber" of two thousand bodies. How many people are said to have worked with removing the dead bodies in the alleged "gas chamber"?

Just imagine that! A couple of guys removing two thousand bodies. I would want some specifics on this, like how much time it is claimed for the removal of all these bodies, how many people were involved in this process, et cetera.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:00 pm)

Now imagine this:

An alleged 2000 corpses per batch were supposedly removed in mere minutes from each of the alleged 'gas chambers' in Kremas II-III to be cremated in the ovens above using one hand drawn 4' X 9' elevator that existed in each Krema.

All that while another batch is alleged to have been waiting.

The story is simply impossible.

see:
'claim: 2000 'gassed Jews' per batch / but only one Elevator'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2378

- Hannover
Last edited by Hannover on Wed Jul 18, 2007 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Tue Jul 17, 2007 9:12 pm)

As for it being easy so easy to ventilate and move corpses, I also suggest:
'ONE PICTURE = 1000 WORDS'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=2651

ASMarques' initial post in that thread:
ASMarques wrote:*** THE GREAT GAS CHAMBER TRAFFIC JAM ***

This would be the one picture I would choose for a crash-course in Holocaust awareness for the intelligent young, lest they forget. Much better than collecting millions of buttons, soda tabs etc.


Image

This is the scale model of Krema II in the Auschwitz Museum, apparently placed behind a glass protection in order to prevent the small dolls being stolen by visitors.

Key to the image:

0 - Reflection of the window on the opposite side of the room.

1 - Underground gallery where many hundreds of victims at a time got undressed for the fake showers in room number 2. According to some Holocaust scholars, this gallery is also supposed to have had fake showers installed in it, just to confuse the undressing victims.

2 - Underground gas chamber, called simply "morgue" or "mortuary cellar" in all German documents and blueprints, in order to fool the future generations of scholars looking for the mysteriously vanished Jewish race. This is where many hundreds of victims were gassed at a time, in a round-the-clock mass murder industrial process by Zyklon B, the same product used to preserve human lives by killing lice (unless the witnesses are lying or very, very confused).

3 - Small elevator bringing daily many thousands of gassed corpses from the underground chamber to the crematories at ground level. Known to the fun-loving SS as "The Little Elevator that Could".

4 - Crematory ovens where many thousands of corpses a day were instantly vaporized, without even having to wait for some heat to dissipate before each door opening, contrary to the ovens in your run-of-the-mill crematory. Alas, the technology of the ovens was one of the best kept secrets in the Reich (unless they were ordinary ovens operated by miracle) and no one has been able to duplicate it.

5 - The famous chimneys, producing lots of smoke, contrary to the chimneys on your run-of-the-mill crematory that produce none. This is attributed to the twisted minds of the German guards who attempted to hide their crimes from the curious in the neighbourhood by using dense curtains of artificial smoke.

Now that you know which room is which, don't let anyone distract your gaze away from the image. Picture the gold-mining brigades, struggling through the corpse-scape, trying not to absorb any cyanide residues trapped among the still palpitating bodies, in order to perform their difficult tasks, such as inspecting body orifices, pulling teeth off, smoking cigarettes and eating sandwiches (according to the Höss testimony).

Then comes the most important part. Wait for a few seconds, take a deep breath, and picture the enormous round-the-clock traffic jam at point number 3, during the process of emptying the gas chamber of bodies, through the small elevator room, with or without (as you prefer) the folks next door waiting, soap in hand, for their shower.

Finally, ask your teacher to point the place, any place, where all those typhus dead were deposited while the live folks were being gassed in the gas chamber the Germans called "a morgue".

If you get a satisfactory answer, please let me know.
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Re: the Industry's D. Keren lies about open 'gas chamber' do

Postby Hannover » 7 years 9 months ago (Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:04 pm)

This thread ties in nicely with the thread 'Cyanide Chemistry at Auschwitz'.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4111

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Re: the Industry's D. Keren lies about open 'gas chamber' do

Postby Eric Hunt » 7 years 9 months ago (Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:15 am)

I don't believe I've ever come across a Sonderkomando testimony claiming they wore a gas mask.

No doubt some of these liars have, inconsistently no doubt, but while looking into the Venezia / Gabbai sonderkomando family, I don't believe I've ever seen any mention of gas masks.

It'd be fun to see a chart like Montogno does, of Sonderkomando and if they mention wearing a gas masks or forget to..
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Re: the Industry's D. Keren lies about open 'gas chamber' do

Postby trevor » 7 years 9 months ago (Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:47 am)

The extermination story says that 900 000 were gassed upon arrival to Auschwitz. Their hair was not shaven. Look at the facts concerning a real gas chamber in American prisons:

"At postmortem, an exhaust fan sucks the poison air out of the chamber, and the corpse is sprayed with ammonia to neutralize any remaining traces of cyanide. About a half an hour later, oderlies enter the chamber, wearing gas masks and rubber gloves. Their training manual advises them to ruffle the victim's hair to release any trapped cyanide gas before removing the deceased"
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/descrip ... ethods#gas
In addition to fans:
Following the execution, the chamber is purged of the gas through special scrubbers, and must be neutralized with anhydrous ammonia (NH3) before it can be opened.

It means the Auschwitz gas chamber would have 2000 individuals with trapped in hair cyanide.


The whole gas chamber urban legend is based on witness statements only. This witness claims the door was opened immediately when death was certified which took 3-5 minutes:

"...I, a former SS physician, witnessed the dropping of Zyklon B into simulated exhaust vents from outside the gas chambers. Zyklon B began to work as soon as it was released from the canisters. The effects of the gas were observed through a peephole by an assigned doctor or the SS officer on duty. After three to five minutes, death could be certified, and the doors were opened as a sign that the corpses were cleared to be burned.
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I am so sorry that in some way I was part of it. Under the prevailing circumstances I did the best I could to save as many lives as possible. Joining the SS was a mistake. I was young. I was an opportunist. And once I joined, there was no way out.”

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Also read the thread:
American Gas Executioners tell us how it is done!
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6384#p45709

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Re: the Industry's D. Keren lies about open 'gas chamber' do

Postby Hannover » 4 years 4 months ago (Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:44 pm)

I just had to bring this thread back. The image analysis by ASMarques is so spot on. See the text earlier in this thread for his analysis.

Image

And this earlier post of mine, quoted below, summarizes the problems with the gassing lies by Keren and the 'holocaust' shysters in general.
The two main 'gas chambers at Auschwitz / Birkenau were exactly the same, supposedly in Kremas II & III. So let's play along with the storyline. Up to 2000 Jews were supposedly gassed until dead, then they were supposedly taken via an elevator to the crematorium directly above.

Fact: as seen in the plans, this elevator is hand drawn, and is only 4 ft X 9 ft. How in the world could 2000 Jews have been loaded onto a 4 ft x 9 ft. hand drawn elevator in just a few minutes? Remember, the storyline says that the gassings and resultant cremations were non-stop for much of the period in question.

We supposedly have another batch of 2000 Jews waiting outside, supposedly being tricked into thinking they were about to receive showers. It would have been impossible to disentangle all the supposedly dead Jews and load 2000 of them onto to this postage stamp of an elevator, hoist them by hand up to the crematory 'ovens' in just minutes.
And this repeated process meant that the crematory ovens above would not have been capable of cremating them in the time alleged, which meant a build-up, a backlog occurred.
The storyline even states that the backlog of the to-be-cremated-gassed-Jews required stacking them outside. Once again, the alleged 2000 Jews were outside in full view of this laughable backlog claim, but supposedly they still thought they were getting 'showers'. Of course, timely aerial reconnaissance photos show nothing of the kind.

Furthermore, while the Jews were waiting outside, the storyline says that a SS man with a gas mask climbed upon the roof of the Kremas (only maybe 18 inches, or close to it, above the ground, Kremas II & III were largely underground) and dropped Zyklon-B granules into a container and lowered it down into the 'holes' in the roof, into the morgues which were supposedly converted into a gas chamber. The waiting 2000 Jews would have a clear view of the man on the roof's activity, yet these 2000 Jews were supposedly not concerned and still thought they were going to get innocent showers. The storyline is utterly ridiculous.

We're not done.

The Zyklon-B pesticide granules took/take hours to complete the outgassing of their cyanide load. The storyline says that this same SS man on the roof, supposedly wearing a highly visible gas mask, withdrew the container up from the 'gas chambers' in just minutes. Remember, the Zyklon-B pesticide granules were allegedly dumped and lowered into the 'gas chambers'. And since we know that the Zyklon-B pesticide would have taken hours to finish releasing it's cyanide load we have a situation where anyone in the entire area would have been vulnerable to gassing.
Yes, the storyline also says that there were vents which were used to remove the gas, but then we are still in a situation where the entire area is vulnerable to cyanide. Not to mention that this certainly would have been noticed by the alleged waiting 2000 Jews. And where does this SS man in a gas mask put the outgassing Zyklon-B pesticide granules which he has supposedly withdrawn, which would be releasing cyanide for hours?

The entire, bizarre story is unsustainable with even the slightest scrutiny. It's no wonder why Jewish supremacists trot out senile, lying 'survivors' (who wouldn't have even survived if the tall tales were true) for emotional impact. No wonder that there are Thought Crime laws against examining this absurd process. 'House of cards' is an understatement.

- Hannover
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