USHMM's bogus 'holocaust' einsatzgruppen film

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Hannover
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USHMM's bogus 'holocaust' einsatzgruppen film

Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:58 pm)

The text to this footage reads:
Einsatzgruppen (mobile killing units)
Liepaja, Latvia
1941
German mobile killing units (Einsatzgruppen) operated in German-occupied territories in eastern Europe during World War II. This rare footage shows a mobile killing unit during a massacre in Liepaja, Latvia. The film was taken, contrary to orders, by a German soldier. Before the war, the Jewish population of Liepaja stood at more than 7,000 residents. German mobile killing squads shot almost the entire Jewish population of the town. When the Soviet army liberated the city in 1945, just 20 to 30 Jews remained.

see:
http://www1.ushmm.org/wlc/media_fi.php? ... ediaId=183

- Notice that there is absolutely nothing to suport the fanatasy that this is proof of the 'extermination' of Jews in Latvia.

- What we see looks like the executions of criminals. More than likely these were apprehended, internationally illegal, non-uniformed terrorists/saboteurs. There was a war going on.

- Imagine someone actually filming what the storyline says was a the top secret 'extermination' of Jews. In spite of what the text says, no German soldier would have been able to move around with a camera (note the close-ups) ... if the absurd allegations were true.

- We have no way of confirming the providence of this footage, or that it was even in Latvia.

- How do we even know that these are Jews? Were are the Jewish stars?

- Where is a verifiable excavation study of this site?

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:35 pm)

Documenting a execution of bandits were frequent for the Germans so unless someone can provide proof that these people are ordinary civilian Jews being massacred only because of being such, then it is just typical documention of a execution of bandits.
Even the description of "Einsatzgruppen" is wrong on the web page above (USHMM). It was a 'task force' and most countries has some type of task force to combat all sorts of criminal elements. It was necessary for Germany to have such a task force as criminal elements in the Eastern campaign was rampant. Hitler first learned of these criminal elements in the Polish campaign --partisans, or 'civilians' rather, fighting from strongholds in houses and such. Those type of actions were encouraged by the Polish government. Hitler, however, had ordered his troops only to attack fighting troops but that 'it was very hard not to lose one’s self-control.'
Later on, the establishment of special task forces had to be created to clear the path for the regular advance of the Wehrmacht--so as to avoid cowardly attacks from balconys, roof tops, in the woods and other hiding places where sneak attacks by a non-uniformed person could be carried out.

Going back to the matter of this film. There are civilian spectators too and as already pointed out, it appears to be a legitimate execution of some type. Without more details its just speculation, but I am fairly sure we won't see any details about this film, as its the details which blows away the nonsense claims.
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:52 pm)

Furthermore, here are maps of alleged einsatzgruppen 'massacre' sites.

There is not a single verifiable mass grave excavation to confirm any of this, not one.
Why not?

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:47 pm)

Haldan said:
There are civilian spectators too ...

Yeah, some secret 'extermination'.

This really is too easy.

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Postby MarkTurley » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Aug 28, 2007 7:25 am)

Hannover asked

"There is not a single verifiable mass grave excavation to confirm any of this, not one.
Why not?"



well, in 'The Destruction of the European Jews' , Raul Hilberg wrote...

"...The bodies in most of the mass graves of Eastern Europe were systematically exhumed and burned by a special SS unit. Several sites, which were not destroyed by the Nazis, were immediately or subsequently redeveloped by the victorious Allies... The mass graves at the Babi Jar gorge near Kyiv, where thirty thousand people were shot, are no longer in existence"

This was one of the things that first rang some alarm bells for me. The claim is that the SS killed all these people and then, when Germany began to lose the war, went back, exhumed all their bodies and burned them.
And we're talking vast numbers.
Other grave sites were apparently destroyed by the Allies, rather than using them as physical evidence for Nuremberg.
It doesn't matter who you are - that's just not credible.

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:04 pm)

While I agree generally with Hannover's scepticism regarding this film there is some important background information.

The film was taken by Erhard Grauel and he confessed to it in the Hannover Landesgericht and that it was shot at Liepaja in December 1941.

This may be more a reflection on post war west germany than reality but there it is.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:17 pm)

jnovitz wrote:While I agree generally with Hannover's scepticism regarding this film there is some important background information.

The film was taken by Erhard Grauel and he confessed to it in the Hannover Landesgericht and that it was shot at Liepaja in December 1941.

This may be more a reflection on post war west germany than reality but there it is.

There are numerous ways to obtain 'confessions', especially when the 'confessor' is facing a potential death sentence. The post war show trials were notorious for their agenda driven miscarriage of justice.

some questions:

- What were the charges against him?
- Was he sentenced? If so, what was his sentence?
- Was he cross examined?
- Do we have the complete court transcripts to read?
- How could he have possibly shot this footage unless it was simply an open, public execution of criminals?
- Why are there civilians in the footage?
- Where is the proof that those executed were always-innocent-Jews?

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Aug 30, 2007 12:43 pm)

http://www1.jur.uva.nl/junsv/brd/files/brd760.htm

He was sentenced to 6 years along with others. I read one suggestion that the film was supposedly shot to create the impression that this was a spontaneous pogrom by Latvian militias

I understand the trial transcripts are available to read in Ludwigsburg but I have never tried to access them.

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Postby J William » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:13 am)

MarkTurley wrote:Hannover asked

"There is not a single verifiable mass grave excavation to confirm any of this, not one.
Why not?"



well, in 'The Destruction of the European Jews' , Raul Hilberg wrote...

"...The bodies in most of the mass graves of Eastern Europe were systematically exhumed and burned by a special SS unit. Several sites, which were not destroyed by the Nazis, were immediately or subsequently redeveloped by the victorious Allies... The mass graves at the Babi Jar gorge near Kyiv, where thirty thousand people were shot, are no longer in existence"

This was one of the things that first rang some alarm bells for me. The claim is that the SS killed all these people and then, when Germany began to lose the war, went back, exhumed all their bodies and burned them.
And we're talking vast numbers.
Other grave sites were apparently destroyed by the Allies, rather than using them as physical evidence for Nuremberg.
It doesn't matter who you are - that's just not credible.


An interesting article on mass graves follows. The absence of any mass graves of persons allegedly killed by Germans flies in the face of logic. It would be almost impossible to eradicate all traces of a mass grave, especially mass graves of "millions".


Mass Plague Graves Found on Venice "Quarantine" Island
Maria Cristina Valsecchi
for National Geographic News

August 29, 2007

Ancient mass graves containing more than 1,500 victims of the bubonic plague have been discovered on a small island in Italy's Venetian Lagoon.

Workers came across the skeletons while digging the foundation for a new museum on Lazzaretto Vecchio, a small island in the lagoon's south, located a couple of miles from Venice's famed Piazza San Marco ().

The island is believed to be the world's first lazaret—a quarantine colony intended to help prevent the spread of infectious diseases.

The lazaret was opened during the plague outbreaks that decimated Venice, as well as much of Europe, throughout the 15th and 16th centuries A.D.

Its presence may have helped Venice recover more quickly during the devastating outbreaks.

"When plague struck the town, everybody sick or showing any suspect symptom were restricted on the island until they recovered or died," said Luisa Gambaro, an anthropologist of the University of Padua.

Gruesome Discovery

Digging the foundation for Venice's archaeological museum on the eastern side of the island, workers came across the well-preserved human skeletons three years ago.

"We were called to attend the excavations, study the site, and rescue remains and artifacts," said Vincenzo Gobbo, an archaeologist of the University Ca' Foscari of Venice working with the Archaeological Superintendence of Veneto.

"In the last three years we collected more than 1,500 corpses and 150 boxes of artifacts," he added. "We estimate there are still thousands of skeletons buried beneath every meadow in Lazzaretto Vecchi."

Researchers found the mass graves arranged in several layers. The oldest ones, dating back to the end of the 15th century, are long rectangular trenches. The skeletons inside are carefully lined and wrapped in sheets.

Later graves are nothing more than large holes where monatti, or corpse carriers, hastily unloaded their carts.

"Plague outbreaks in the 16th century were far deadlier than the earlier ones," Gobbo said. "About 500 people a day used to die in Lazzaretto Vecchio. Monatti simply had no time to take care of the burials."

The remains belong to men, women, and children alike. Some show Asian or African features, evidence of the cultural diversity that stemmed from the Republic of Venice's role as one of the most important commercial ports in Europe.

"Nobles or lower class didn't make any difference," Gambaro said. "All the sick were forced to stay on Lazzaretto Vecchio, and if they died, they were buried together."

Among the skeletons, the archaeologists also found common artifacts such as pottery, coins, combs, and jewelry.

First Lazaret

The concept of a lazaret began in 1485, when a devastating plague outbreak hit Venice and killed even the doge, or the head of state, at the time, Giovanni Mocenigo.

Venice's government built a public hospital on Lazzaretto Vecchio to isolate the infectious and curb the disease's spread.

At the time the island was named Santa Maria di Nazareth, but people also called it Nazarethum or Lazaretum. The second name prevailed and eventually gave rise to the modern word "lazaret."

But conditions in Lazzaretto Vecchio during plague outbreaks were far from modern hospital's standards.

"It looked like hell ... The sick lay three or four in a bed," wrote the 16th-century Venetian chronicler Rocco Benedetti.

"Workers collected the dead and threw them in the graves all day without a break. Often the dying ones and the ones too sick to move or talk were taken for dead and thrown on the piled corpses."

The lucky ones who survived and recovered spent their convalescence on the near island of Lazzaretto Nuovo.

Thanks to this policy, Venetians were able to curb the damage as the plague struck Europe again and again during the Renaissance.

Revealing Find

As workers continue working on the museum, scheduled to open on 2010, skeletons and artifacts will finish their journey by being cataloged and stored on Lazzaretto Nuovo.

Researchers from across Italy will study the remains to learn more about society and everyday life in medieval and Renaissance Venice.

"By analyzing teeth and bones it may be possible to know what they used to eat and what kind of diseases affected them," Gambaro, of the University of Padua, said.

"Then part of the remains will be put on display in the new museum on Lazzaretto Vecchio," archaeologist Gobbo added. "The archaeological area will be open to visitors too."


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