Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

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Re: Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby ivam » 6 years 1 month ago (Sun Jun 29, 2014 2:09 am)

even if the document was genuine i dont see anything in it other than a list of numbers with associated camps

knowledge dictats its transport schedules, nothing else can remotely be indicated by this document unless you believe the holocaust happened and try to use this documents numbers to fit the elaborate numbers of casulties for the camps that are derived exactly from these documents.

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Re: Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:08 pm)

Wikipedia has a scan of the Hoefle telegram here: ... legram.jpg

On the second section, which is in lighter color to the rest of the document we see "Hoefle" in German. Should it be Höfle? I see there was some discussion about it including this interesting comment from Grenadier's friend:
" I am 99% sure that Höfle spelled his name like this, with an
Umlaut. To be 100% sure, one would have to see the birth certificate. In
all German texts I could find, including Mattogno/Graf, it is written as
Höfle. It is highly unusual to use “oe” instead of “ö” in German writing
and yes, Goebbels was the exception to the rule. I am convinced that the
name was anglicized, as were Höß, Höttl, Göring and others. Strangely,
the English version of the telegram, taken from Wiki, has it spelled

Any thoughts on this in 2020? One sees umlauts all over the document. It's hard to believe a forger would make such a dumb mistake but it's happened before. On the high level of Chief of Nuremberg Interrogations John Harlan Amen talking to Hess:
For two hours this battle of wits went on, while hidden microphones
recorded every word. He spotted one signature as a forgery, because it
was written Hess and not Heß.
SOURCE: Book: Nuremberg. The Last Battle by David Irving. Focal Point Publications 1996. Page 202

If one is decoding, I would think that this involves a cypher character being replaced with the real German character. So there was a character for “ö” just like we see umlauts over other vowels. Were it, in contrast, a tapped line of a phone call, then one could see how the English transcriber might spell it wrong. But I'd think this is a Bletchely Park character by character decode. So how does that mistake make sense? Maybe on the wartime German side? The German telegram operator thought Hoefle was spelled like that? Just like Goebbels doesn't use an umlaut? But you'd think that would be a mistake that could happen in dictation. Was this dictation on the German side? Or dictation to create a paper note that then reached the telegram operator? How glaring an error is that in German. I don't speak German so I don't have a sense.

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Re: Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby Pia Kahn » 3 months 2 weeks ago (Wed Apr 15, 2020 3:06 am)

The preson decoding must have been using a German typewriter, since the text contains several "Umlaute". I don't think the people sending these messages and decoding them attached any importance to correct writing. They just wanted to get the message accross fast.
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Re: Irving attempts 'rehabilitation' via the Hoefle Telegram

Postby Moderator » 3 weeks 2 days ago (Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:02 pm)

Bumped, per interest.
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