We already knew that (but thanks anyway)

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Laurentz Dahl
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We already knew that (but thanks anyway)

Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Nov 16, 2007 7:08 pm)

Andrew Cohen, a writer at the Washington Post reviews After the Reich: The Brutal History of Allied Occupation by Giles MacDonough:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/benchcon ... st_63.html

Amidst a market heavily saturated with books on World War II, After the Reich focuses on a lesser-known period of that conflict and suggests lessons that are particularly relevant to our time. For example, did you know that American soldiers after the war used brutal interrogation methods against German "officials suspected of war crimes"? As Patricia Meehan describes in a fantastic review in the current edition of the New York Review of Books, the Americans carried out "mock executions, where the men were led off in hoods, while their guards told them they were approaching the gallows. Prisoners were actually lifted bodily off the ground to convince them they were about to swing. More conventional methods of torture included kicks to the groin, deprivation of sleep and food, and savage beatings."

Yes, in fact we knew that. We, meaning revisionists of course. It is probably news to Mr. Cohen's readers.

The groin kicks, sleep deprivation, torture etc. was written about extensively in Arthur Butz' The Hoax of the Twentieth Century, a book which was published in 1976, thirty-one years ago. For example, on page 40 we read:

The entire repertoire of third degree methods was enacted at Dachau: beatings and brutal kicking, to the point of ruining testicles in 137 cases, knocking out teeth, starvation, solitary confinement, torture with burning splinters, and impersonation of priests in order to encourage prisoners to “confess.” Low rank prisoners were assured that convictions were being sought only against higher ranking officers and that they had absolutely nothing to lose by cooperating and making the desired statements. Such “evidence” was then used against them when they
joined their superiors in the dock. The latter, on the other hand, had been told that by “confessing” they had taken all responsibility onto themselves, thereby shielding their men from trial. A favorite stratagem, when a prisoner refused to cooperate, was to arrange a mock trial. The prisoner was led into a room in which civilian investigators, dressed in U.S. Army uniforms, were seated around a black table with a crucifix in the center, with two candles providing the only light. This “court” then proceeded to hold a sham trial, at the conclusion of which a sham
death sentence was passed. The “condemned” prisoner was later promised that, if he cooperated with the prosecutors in giving evidence, he would be reprieved. Sometimes interrogators threatened to turn prisoners over to the Russians. In many cases the prisoner’s family was threatened with loss of ration cards or other hardships if cooperation was not obtained.

Next Cohen writes:

Did you know that tens of thousands of German prisoners died in Allied hands in the last few months of the European war? Did you know that thousands of men were swept up into "civilian internment camps" because they were considered "persons dangerous to the Occupation or its objectives"? Did you know that the British ordered German soldiers to engage in forced labor while living in atrocious conditions? These facts do not negate the Nazi regime and its horrors. But they shed a harsh light on the gleam of Allied success.

The problems of course is that there is a complete lack of evidence for most of those horrors, such as the Auschwitz horrors of millions of gassed Jews. In fact, the main evidence for the Auschwitz gas chamber mass murders presented at IMT Nuremberg was the confession of Rudolf Hoss - and Hoss was among those tortured officials "suspected of war crimes" which Cohen just mentioned!

The basic facts about Allied behavior towards the vanquished Germans have been known for decades. It is however good to see that they are coming to mainstream attention. It may cause some people to start thinking about the link between tortured war crimes suspects and the Holocaust allegations.

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Postby bridgebuilder » 1 decade 3 years ago (Fri Nov 16, 2007 8:40 pm)

A Google search on "SS" and "Wrangel Island" and "Gulag" turns up a claim that SS prisoners and the Russian patriots of the Vlasov army were sent to Wrangel Island in the polar cold for forced labour and experimental vivisection. Does anyone have any confirming evidence or any information at all of the fate of the SS? Did a single one of the captured SS soldiers survive to report on their treatment under the Soviets? One imagines a tale of untold horror, for the Vlasov fighters were sentenced to "katorga" which was, if we can allow ourselves to be a bit squeamish, not nice. As for the SS, any solid information (on mutilations etc.) would be much appreciated.

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Postby Wahrheit » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Nov 17, 2007 9:41 am)

bridgebuilder wrote:Does anyone have any confirming evidence or any information at all of the fate of the SS? .

Not for the Wrangel island workers' "paradise" no.

I am aware that many of the SS, and the overwhelming majority of the Vlasov soldiers, were immediately sentenced to death once put into Soviet and NKVD hands.

Yet not many SS were captured by the Soviets, as they knew what would happen to them. Many fled to the Western Allies for imprisonment.

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Nov 17, 2007 2:06 pm)

Excellent post Laurentz,

I believe the report that mentions the "beatings and brutal kicking, to the point of ruining testicles in 137 cases" has now disappeared. Someone went into the records and stole it, to get rid of it. The only way we know it's there, is there are references to this report from that time period. I believe Henry Stimson mentions it.

Butz's book mentions the report but didn't offer a source and this is the explanation probably.

I remember reading somewhere that Fritz Berg went looking for this report in a library archive and found it missing.

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Postby bridgebuilder » 1 decade 3 years ago (Sat Nov 17, 2007 4:20 pm)

The SS formed a major component of the anti-Soviet forces on the Eastern Front. SS Latvia alone fielded two divisions of circa 100,000 men. The Waffen SS were around a million. It is true that some few SS were given sanctuary in Western countries. (Some members of SS Galicia made it to Canada, for example, because they were combat troops who had the good fortune not to surrender to the Soviets and were in any case not accused of atrocities.) It is quite wrong, however, to think that the SS who fell into Soviet hands in 1945 were anything else but the overwhelming numerical strength of the SS - many, many hundreds of thousands. The question remains, "What happened to them?" Did a single one make it back to Germany to report? How many were sent to camps of destruction on freezing Wrangel Island with the captured Vlasov patriots? How long it take them be destroyed? What was the process by which they were destroyed? Were many of them subject to vivisection? Ordinary German POWs were used to clear minefields by being forced to march through them. Given that this was the sort of treatment suffered by ordinary soldiers, Stalin must has reserved something particularly special for the SS. The tragic final history of the SS - which was the finest fighting force there has ever been - has yet to be written.

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Postby PotPie » 1 decade 3 years ago (Tue Nov 20, 2007 3:57 am)

What is really surprising here is that a man named Cohen would write about this.

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