Detailed study on Sobibor?

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Holycaust
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Detailed study on Sobibor?

Postby Holycaust » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Dec 19, 2007 9:14 am)

Hello all, I was wondering if anyone knows if a detailed study on the Sobibor camp is underway or in planning. I haven't been able to find anything in the way of revisionist publications that go into detail on the history of this camp. Obviously Mattogno and Graf would be the ideal men for the job. They did an excellent job for Treblinka and Belzec.

It seems Sobibor is still a bit of an outstanding gap in revisionist research. Are there any reasons for this or is it just that nobody has got around to it yet?

Cheers ;)

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Postby Coder62 » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:44 pm)

I would view this link if I were you:

http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4056

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Postby Carto's Cutlass Supreme » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:59 am)

I think the reason Mattogno and Graf didn't do something on Sobibor was that there just isn't enough material.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Thu Dec 20, 2007 10:15 pm)

Carto's Cutlass Supreme wrote:I think the reason Mattogno and Graf didn't do something on Sobibor was that there just isn't enough material.


Yes, I believe Graf stated stomething to that effect in an interview. I think he said there was at least material for a long article.

Still it would be great to have another book on the Reinhardt camps by Mattogno and Graf, like a volume similar to Auschwitz Lies but countering antirevisionist arguments concerning Belzec, Sobibor and Treblinka.

I don't know if Mr. Graf has the time and means to carry out archival research in Russia/Eastern Europe at the present. Then there is the problem with a publisher. It seems like Castle Hill is still active though (?). Articles could be published online at Graf's own site or at CODOH.

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Postby Coder62 » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:51 pm)

For a closer look at Sobibor you could also take a look at Denierbuds onethirdoftheholocaust.com, or more specifcally the episodes dealing with Sobibor directly, episodes 13/14 and 16.

Thanks Denierbud.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:03 pm)

David Irving recently published a pdf called The Himmler Decodes on his website.

http://www.fpp.co.uk/Himmler/decodes/Decodes.pdf

It contains the following telegrams concerned with Sobibor.

German Police Decodes No.1 Traffic: 19.10.43:
DD Nr. 12: DAS de LYP8 1138 SSD SQR Nr. 8 1115 298
DQÄ4 6890
SS Pol.führer Luzk, SS Brigadeführer Günther. Geheim!
Aus dem Lage Sobibor sind circa 700 Juden ausgebrochen. Es ist
anzunehmen, daß dieselben über die Bug-Grenze fliehen werden.
Es wird gebeten, entsprechende Gegenmaßnahmen einzuleiten.
Sobibor liegt im Distrikt Lublin, 5 Km. vom Bug zwischen Cholm
und Wlodawa.
Von SS Pol.führer Lublin.


German Police Decodes No.1 Traffic: 27.10.43:

DD Nr. 14: LYP8 de SRO9 1043 SRO9 Nr. 3 1100 176 OEE1
6890
An Pfs. Lublin, Weiterleitung an SS Durchgangslager Sobibor.
Abrollten am 25.10.43, Fahrt- Nr. 6448551. München 38616,
unbrauchbare Munition.
Von HSS u Pf Rußland-Mitte.


So here we have another German document referring to Sobibor as a Durchgangslager (transit camp). The mention of ammunition possibly has to do with the ammunition recovery work detail installed at Sobibor late summer/early autumn 1943.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Dec 29, 2007 11:09 pm)

Laurentz Dahl wrote: The mention of ammunition possibly has to do with the ammunition recovery work detail installed at Sobibor late summer/early autumn 1943.


What's this?
Did the Germans make an effort to recycle misfired ammunition?
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Dec 30, 2007 2:05 am)

MrNobody wrote:
Laurentz Dahl wrote: The mention of ammunition possibly has to do with the ammunition recovery work detail installed at Sobibor late summer/early autumn 1943.


What's this?
Did the Germans make an effort to recycle misfired ammunition?


No, captured Soviet ammunition.

Himmler wanted to transform Durchgangslager Sobibor into a concentration camp where ammunition related work was carried out. Pohl and others convinced him that the necessary work details could be installed while retaining the previous function of the camp (extermination, according to the orthodox, resettlement according to revisionists). Witness statements has it that work on this project was begun in summer 1943 and that semisubterranean bunker workshops were built in a previously wooded area of the camp known as "Lager IV" or the "Nordlager".

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Postby jnovitz » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Dec 30, 2007 1:19 pm)

German Police Decodes No.1 Traffic: 19.10.43:
DD Nr. 12: DAS de LYP8 1138 SSD SQR Nr. 8 1115 298
DQÄ4 6890
SS Pol.führer Luzk, SS Brigadeführer Günther. Geheim!
Aus dem Lage Sobibor sind circa 700 Juden ausgebrochen. Es ist
anzunehmen, daß dieselben über die Bug-Grenze fliehen werden.
Es wird gebeten, entsprechende Gegenmaßnahmen einzuleiten.
Sobibor liegt im Distrikt Lublin, 5 Km. vom Bug zwischen Cholm
und Wlodawa.
Von SS Pol.führer Lublin.


Last year I visited the PRO in Kew and read the large majority of the Police Decodes.

It is my opinion, for reasons that I won't explore here, that these decodes have been, although 99% genuine, tampered with before release in 1996.

In fact I would argue there were two tamperings. One by Leo Long during WW2, a known Soviet agent who worked on the police decodes, cf here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambridge_Five
Here he worked to insert Soviet propaganda into Allied decision making.

The 2nd tampering occured prior to release and would have been quite conservative. Simply removing any decodes that outrageously contradicted the Holocaust narrative and inserting a few telegrams, eg the Feldofens of Litzmannstadt, that had been given publicity previously.

This Sobibor intercept is a prime candidate for tampering. Has ever seemed a trifle suspicious that heroic uprisings at Treblinka and Sobibor occured on the exact moment the camps had fulfilled their purpose? ie finished deporting Jews or if you are believer, finished burning 1 million Jews on giant open air pyres.

A far more prosaic explanation is the camps were simply disbanded having served their function.

If you read this intercept it is quite meaningless. It is from the Security Chief of Lublin, a man with extremely wide ranging powers, sent to superiors in Berlin. It is sent 5 days after the (fictional) revolt.
It then requested to introduce corresponding countermeasures
Es wird gebeten, entsprechende Gegenmaßnahmen einzuleiten.

What exactly is Berlin supposed to make of this? Wire back and say "yes by all means introduce appropriate countermeasures?"
It is vague and meaningless.


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