Nuremberg: "Charnel pits" in France?

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FrankLee
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Nuremberg: "Charnel pits" in France?

Postby FrankLee » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Feb 10, 2008 2:15 pm)

I came across this quote from the Nuremberg transcripts:

In France systematic extermination was practiced also, notably at Asq on 1 April 1944, at Colpo on 22 July 1944, at Buzet-sur-Tarn on 6 July 1944 and on 17 August 1944, at Pluvignier on 8 July 1944, at Rennes on 8 June 1944, at Grenoble on 8 July 1944, at Saint Flour on 10 June 1944, at Ruisnes on 10 July 1944, at Nimes, at Tulle, and at Nice, where, in July 1944, the victims of torture were exposed to the population, and at Oradour-sur-Glane where the entire village population was shot or burned alive in the church.

The many charnel pits give proof of anonymous massacres. Most notable of these are the charnel pits of Paris (Cascade du Bois de Boulogne), Lyons, Saint-Genis-Laval, Besancon, Petit-Saint-Bernard, Aulnat, Caen, Port-Louis, Charleval, Fontainebleau, Bouconne, Gabaudet, Lhermitage Lorges, Morlaas, Bordelongue, Signe.

This is from http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/proc/count3.htm

which of course is a holocaust conformist site.

I am wondering if these supposed charnel pits and other claims above, have undergone revisionist study?

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:00 pm)

FrankLee wrote:I came across this quote from the Nuremberg transcripts:

In France systematic extermination was practiced also, notably at Asq on 1 April 1944, at Colpo on 22 July 1944, at Buzet-sur-Tarn on 6 July 1944 and on 17 August 1944, at Pluvignier on 8 July 1944, at Rennes on 8 June 1944, at Grenoble on 8 July 1944, at Saint Flour on 10 June 1944, at Ruisnes on 10 July 1944, at Nimes, at Tulle, and at Nice, where, in July 1944, the victims of torture were exposed to the population, and at Oradour-sur-Glane where the entire village population was shot or burned alive in the church.


Is it a case of systematic extermination or retaliations for partizan activities ?

In Greece there were many cases of executions and villages being destroyed as response to partizan activities. :(

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:23 am)

Is it a case of systematic extermination or retaliations for partizan activities ?


Nonsense, where's the proof of these "pits"? Where's the proof that Germans were responsible for these alleged pits? Simple as that.

Let's see the pits.

Let's see verification. Forget it, it doesn't exist.

Remember, according to Nuremberg, laughable 'steam chambers' were 'proven' to be the primary murder weapons used at Auschwitz.

This is too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:53 am)

Hannover wrote:
Is it a case of systematic extermination or retaliations for partizan activities ?


Nonsense, where's the proof of these "pits"? Where's the proof that Germans were responsible for these alleged pits? Simple as that.

Let's see the pits.

Let's see verification. Forget it, it doesn't exist.

Remember, according to Nuremberg, laughable 'steam chambers' were 'proven' to be the primary murder weapons used at Auschwitz.

This is too easy.

- Hannover


Yes, you are right. First of all we must be sure that such pits exist or existed.

But it is sure that in places where there were partizan activities there were German retaliations against prisoners/hostages or civilian population. Perhaps, not in all cases but in many. Or we must doubt about this, too?

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:12 am)

KostasL wrote:Yes, you are right. First of all we must be sure that such pits exist or existed.

But it is sure that in places where there were partizan activities there were German retaliations against prisoners/hostages or civilian population. Perhaps, not in all cases but in many. Or we must doubt about this, too?


But what i must add is that in Greece we are told that German Nazi scums did these attrocities because they wanted to suppress the Partizan activities and because Nazis were sadists and brutals.

An example is following, the famous Kalavryta massacre :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 6837.shtml

Above is the whole story as told by an englishman.

But Greeks were never told the whole story. Greek version begins when Germans invade Kalavryta and start the massacre. Nobody ever told us that the partizans executed German soldiers they captured.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:42 pm)

But it is sure that in places where there were partizan activities there were German retaliations against prisoners/hostages or civilian population. Perhaps, not in all cases but in many. Or we must doubt about this, too?

There have been, and are, atrocities in all wars, by all sides, unfortunate but true.

In regards to the case at hand, take note of the lurid descriptions of the alleged executions said done by the Germans; women, child, the whole bit.

Anything alleged about the Germans is accepted in totality in spite of the lack of proof or even credible evidence.

If these alleged mass executions by the Germans occurred as stories like this one claim, then we should see verifiable mass grave after verifiable mass grave that can be attributed to the Germans.* We do not. 'Witnesses' claim to know the exact locations, so why can't we see the alleged mass graves?

Remember, there was wholesale terrorist communist violence in Greece, and most places in Europe at the time, it's all too predictable that they would spin their atrocities as being by the Germans.

Just because the story is told by an alleged "englishman" does not make it all the more acceptable. In fact, you should expect unrelenting bias when considering the source, the 'BBC'.

* note:
There are many real & verifiable mass graves accurately attributed to the communists.

There is not a single alleged 'holocaust' mass grave which can be shown and verified, not one.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 12, 2008 3:43 pm)

Hannover wrote:Anything alleged about the Germans is accepted in totality in spite of the lack of proof or even credible evidence.

- Hannover


Yes that is most certainly a correct observation on your part Hannover. Leon Degrelle noted the following in regards to such lurid tales:

“Whether it's a question of gas chambers in which, to believe the figures of the accusers, the victims would have to have been crowded together thirty-two persons per square meter twenty-four hours a day; or whether a description is being given to you of the crematory furnaces which, if they had to burn up all the bodies assigned to them by the Jewish propaganda, would still be working at full capacity in the year 2050, or even 2080. When it's a matter of denigrating Germans, nothing need be verified.

Many good greetings from,
-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
Homage to Catalin Haldan

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Postby FrankLee » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:33 pm)

KostasL wrote:
KostasL wrote:Yes, you are right. First of all we must be sure that such pits exist or existed.

But it is sure that in places where there were partizan activities there were German retaliations against prisoners/hostages or civilian population. Perhaps, not in all cases but in many. Or we must doubt about this, too?


But what i must add is that in Greece we are told that German Nazi scums did these attrocities because they wanted to suppress the Partizan activities and because Nazis were sadists and brutals.

An example is following, the famous Kalavryta massacre :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 6837.shtml

Above is the whole story as told by an englishman.

But Greeks were never told the whole story. Greek version begins when Germans invade Kalavryta and start the massacre. Nobody ever told us that the partizans executed German soldiers they captured.

I read that link, and the English Captain O'Donell could not have witnessed the massacre, so it is hearsay. He also didn't say how he knew about it. Also the telegram quotes dont' say anytying about the massacre, which seems surprising if it really happened. This doesn't mean it necessarily didn't happen, but it can't be assumed it did without actual evidence, which is conspicuously absent.

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Postby FrankLee » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:49 pm)

Hannover wrote:
Is it a case of systematic extermination or retaliations for partizan activities ?


Nonsense, where's the proof of these "pits"? Where's the proof that Germans were responsible for these alleged pits? Simple as that.

Let's see the pits.

Let's see verification. Forget it, it doesn't exist.

Remember, according to Nuremberg, laughable 'steam chambers' were 'proven' to be the primary murder weapons used at Auschwitz.

This is too easy.

- Hannover
Now that I've thought about it, all the many atrocity claims on the whole of that page are just statements by the prosecutor with no evidence or verification offered at all. It seems to be just an exercise in psychologically demonising the Nazis in general, since it doesn't seem to involve actual accusations of anyone who was on trial.
If they don't provide any evidence, then there's no need to try to verify or dispute the claims 0 the onus is on the prosecution. I imagine that if anyone would choose a completely random page of the huge N transcripts, they would most likely find such unsubstantiated claims. In fact that would be quite an interesting exercise - to take say 5 random samples and see what we come up with.

I suppose that is what the Nuremberg "judicial notice" was all about - and I am just starting to realise what an enormous amount of unverified accusations must have been made throughout the trials. Without the judicial notice, perhaps they could have saved themselves a lot of time and effort - maybe the trials would have only lasted a week of so if only accusations with supporting evidence were made.

If only valid evidence had been used, I wonder how long the trials would have been then.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Feb 13, 2008 12:21 pm)

FrankLee said:
I suppose that is what the Nuremberg "judicial notice" was all about - and I am just starting to realise what an enormous amount of unverified accusations must have been made throughout the trials.


The sham 'judical notice' said the absurd 'gas chambers' could not be questioned even though they were never proven to be fact. That way there could be no defense against the accusations. How convenient.

By ruling, all so called 'documents' presented at the Nuremberg / post war Show Trials had to be accepted as fact.

Of course, the de facto rule says there can be no doubting any claim made by a judeo-supremacist?

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If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Feb 13, 2008 4:55 pm)

To be clear retaliation for partisan activities at the time of WWII was legal under International Law. The Allies did it as did the Germans. Indeed in a small Bavarian town where I happen to live in 1946 the American Army handed out fliers warning the population that 10 civilians would be shot for every death of an American soldier. In Berlin the Russians did the same although the ratio was 300 to 1. The American Army also executed Hitler youth boys if they were suspected of being members of the Werwolves. All of these were teens.


The number of deaths in the Greek civil war in the late 1940s far exceeded the deaths in that country during the war. Most of the killers were communist partisans which got their training and support from Moscow.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:46 pm)

FrankLee wrote:
KostasL wrote:
KostasL wrote:Yes, you are right. First of all we must be sure that such pits exist or existed.

But it is sure that in places where there were partizan activities there were German retaliations against prisoners/hostages or civilian population. Perhaps, not in all cases but in many. Or we must doubt about this, too?


But what i must add is that in Greece we are told that German Nazi scums did these attrocities because they wanted to suppress the Partizan activities and because Nazis were sadists and brutals.

An example is following, the famous Kalavryta massacre :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stor ... 6837.shtml

Above is the whole story as told by an englishman.

But Greeks were never told the whole story. Greek version begins when Germans invade Kalavryta and start the massacre. Nobody ever told us that the partizans executed German soldiers they captured.

I read that link, and the English Captain O'Donell could not have witnessed the massacre, so it is hearsay. He also didn't say how he knew about it. Also the telegram quotes dont' say anytying about the massacre, which seems surprising if it really happened. This doesn't mean it necessarily didn't happen, but it can't be assumed it did without actual evidence, which is conspicuously absent.


Executions and retaliations in Greece are very clear and true.
With real people dead, real mass graves, real women wailing.

But what is not clear to the people are what caused these retaliations.
And it was crimes like the execution of German soldiers caught by partizans.

The war is grey, not black nor white.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:56 pm)

Mannstein wrote:To be clear retaliation for partisan activities at the time of WWII was legal under International Law.

The number of deaths in the Greek civil war in the late 1940s far exceeded the deaths in that country during the war. Most of the killers were communist partisans which got their training and support from Moscow.


Yes, it was legal under international law. I myself blame the partizans and the English first and then blame Germans for these attrocities. The partizans and the English are also responsible for the Civil war that followed.

Mannstein wrote:The Allies did it as did the Germans. Indeed in a small Bavarian town where I happen to live in 1946 the American Army handed out fliers warning the population that 10 civilians would be shot for every death of an American soldier. In Berlin the Russians did the same although the ratio was 300 to 1. The American Army also executed Hitler youth boys if they were suspected of being members of the Werwolves. All of these were teens.


I totally agree. And these facts are just ignored by most.

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Postby FrankLee » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:08 pm)

KostasL wrote:
FrankLee wrote:
KostasL wrote:
KostasL wrote:Yes, you are right. First of all we must be sure that such pits exist or existed.

But it is sure that in places where there were partizan activities there were German retaliations against prisoners/hostages or civilian population. Perhaps, not in all cases but in many. Or we must doubt about this, too?


But what i must add is that in Greece we are told that German Nazi scums did these attrocities because they wanted to suppress the Partizan activities and because Nazis were sadists and brutals.

An example is following, the famous Kalavryta massacre :
http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww2peopleswar/stories/37/a.shtml

Above is the whole story as told by an englishman.

But Greeks were never told the whole story. Greek version begins when Germans invade Kalavryta and start the massacre. Nobody ever told us that the partizans executed German soldiers they captured.

I read that link, and the English Captain O'Donell could not have witnessed the massacre, so it is hearsay. He also didn't say how he knew about it. Also the telegram quotes dont' say anytying about the massacre, which seems surprising if it really happened. This doesn't mean it necessarily didn't happen, but it can't be assumed it did without actual evidence, which is conspicuously absent.


Executions and retaliations in Greece are very clear and true.
With real people dead, real mass graves, real women wailing.

But what is not clear to the people are what caused these retaliations.
And it was crimes like the execution of German soldiers caught by partizans.

The war is grey, not black nor white.

It's interesting to get this information which adds to the overall backdrop of the alleged holocaust. But if it's true that German reprisal mass-executions of partisans did happen, that doesn't mean we can just assume that this one did because an English captain who did not witness it, says so. We have to deal with actual evidence only, that's one thing we can learn from the house of mirrors called the "holocaust", and especially the Nuremberg trials. It may be harder work, but the holocaust scam exists only because of the mental laziness of the average person.

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Postby KostasL » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:04 pm)

FrankLee wrote:But Greeks were never told the whole story. Greek version begins when Germans invade Kalavryta and start the massacre. Nobody ever told us
It's interesting to get this information which adds to the overall backdrop of the alleged holocaust. But if it's true that German reprisal mass-executions of partisans did happen, that doesn't mean we can just assume that this one did because an English captain who did not witness it, says so. We have to deal with actual evidence only, that's one thing we can learn from the house of mirrors called the "holocaust", and especially the Nuremberg trials. It may be harder work, but the holocaust scam exists only because of the mental laziness of the average person.


These retaliations are the real attrocities of German side. Not in legal basis but in moral basis.

They were legal, according to international laws and conventions but after ww2 they are considered war crimes.

There is no fog in occupied Greek territory like at Eastern Front or Holocaust.


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