The Charles Manson murders and the holocaust

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duckchuck
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The Charles Manson murders and the holocaust

Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:27 pm)

This is great. I just found this on the TOPIX archaeology forum site:

"...They were leading forensic investigators searching for new evidence of death — clues pointing to possible decades-old clandestine graves. And the results of just-completed followup tests suggest bodies could indeed be lying beneath the parched ground... Last month, equipped with cutting-edge forensic technology, the investigators assembled in the ghost town of Ballarat for a 20-mile ride in all-terrain vehicles to the ranch. The team included two national lab researchers carrying instruments to detect chemical markers of human decomposition, a police investigator with a cadaver-seeking dog, and an anthropologist armed with a magnetic resonance reader...

Meanwhile, Arpad Vass and Marc Wise, senior researchers from Tennessee's Oak Ridge National Laboratory, were readying the first of the instruments they'd brought, capable of chemically detecting evidence of decades-old human bodies. It was a hand-held device shaped like a gun. "It's a crude sniffer," said Vass. "It gives us a quick indication of areas we want to come back to." The machine detects fluorinated hydrocarbon compounds, one of the approximately 400 types of volatile organic compounds emitted by human bodies during decomposition. Focusing on these compounds is important because Vass believes they're formed as the fluoride added to urban drinking water is released after death. Their presence helps differentiate a human bone from bones from wild animals, explained Vass, who has spent years developing a decomposition odor database using bodies donated to the Oak Ridge lab...

He was calling for the next piece of machinery — larger and heavier, but more specific. It could be calibrated to detect different compounds, using technology known as infrared spectroscopy to "read" a particular molecule's profile.

"We're getting the highest hits here, where the ground is soft," said Wise. "There's definitely something down there," he said. "We just can't know yet exactly what until we dig."

... Afterward, Daniel Larson took up his part of the investigation. The head of the archaeology department at California State University, Long Beach, Larson has used Ground Penetrating Radar and a magnetometer — an instrument that can peer 12 feet into the ground — in archaeological work and to help find mass graves.

At Barker Ranch, he took 2,025 readings of the ground at the suspect site, stopping every four inches within a 26-by-20-foot grid, looking for discrepancies that indicated earth had been moved.

"What I'm looking for is the pit, not the bones," he explained... Vass said that, considering the quantity and the types of markers of human decomposition found, the cadaver dog's response, and the probing exercise, he found enough evidence to warrant further testing at a deeper level and a full scale excavation at Barker Ranch, according to the report he issued to law enforcement."

#

If they are finding evidence of just a few bodies at this ranch, just how much evidence do you think they would find at the "pure extermination centers?" Plus, they know EXACTLY where to look.

Can't you imagine how bad the jews are squirming right now?

Full article here:

http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2008/mar/16/ornl...


Oh yes, I can see them squirm!

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Postby It » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:50 am)

Do you have a link to the forum post too?

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:28 am)

The machine detects fluorinated hydrocarbon compounds, one of the approximately 400 types of volatile organic compounds emitted by human bodies during decomposition. Focusing on these compounds is important because Vass believes they're formed as the fluoride added to urban drinking water is released after death. Their presence helps differentiate a human bone from bones from wild animals


They'll have to switch to a different compound to isolate since the introduction of fluoridated water post dates WWII.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 2 years ago (Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:44 am)

It:

Do you have a link to the forum post too?


http://www.topix.net/forum/science/archaeology

MrNobody:

They'll have to switch to a different compound to isolate since the introduction of fluoridated water post dates WWII.


Yes, but that still leaves them with 399 other compounds that can be detected.

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Postby Focus » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:22 am)

With the latest GPR units, finding graves would be a piece of cake. Getting permission - impossible. The courts would need to intervene.

Present day technology scares the poop out of them.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:38 am)

duckchuck wrote:Yes, but that still leaves them with 399 other compounds that can be detected.


Possibly, but how many of those other compounds are also given off by animals & rotting vegetation?

That is the main reason why they chose fluorinated hydrocarbons as the key component because of its absence in animals & where in nature it does occur the incidence is so high it's ruled out as coming from human remains.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:24 pm)

The point is, mass graves, human or animal, can EASILY be detected using trained dogs and/or modern technology, no matter how long ago they were buried. (But please notice, dogs CAN differentiate between animal bones and human bones - that is what they are specifically trained to do.)

So if someone searches an area using these modern techniques, more specifically, a very small known area that the holocaust "survivors / eyewitnesses" insist "huge mass graves" exist in, then finding them should not only be a piece of cake, but now there is no excuse at all for not locating them, as these techniques are totally noninvasive. It also pinpoints specific areas for further analysis with the use of GPR, which cuts down dramatically on the time and expense of using GPR.

So imagine if a team went to Belzec. The dogs could easily (if Kola and O'Neil are not lying), locate all 33 mass graves that allegedly exist there. (The handlers would know EXACTLY were to search.) And again, more specifically, if Kola/O'Neil really did find graves with human bones in them, the dogs will locate only on human and not animal graves. As for Treblinka, all the crap that the jews have littered about the camp would be no obstacle for trained dogs. The scent will waft up somewhere. IF there are "huge mass graves" at Treblinka, the dogs will locate them. Period end of statement. Same goes for Chelmno and Sobibor.

So there is no longer an excuse to not find the alleged graves that have yet to be located and there is no longer an excuse to not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the graves that have allegedly been located are in fact filled with human bones and not animal bones.

No graves = No holocaust within the holocaust

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Postby StuDewan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Wed Mar 19, 2008 4:31 pm)

duckchuck wrote:
Possibly, but how many of those other compounds are also given off by animals & rotting vegetation?



how about HCN?

not to be found on trees or animals, isn't it?

Stu

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Postby Laurentz Dahl » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:42 am)

duckchuck wrote:So imagine if a team went to Belzec. The dogs could easily (if Kola and O'Neil are not lying), locate all 33 mass graves that allegedly exist there. (The handlers would know EXACTLY were to search.) And again, more specifically, if Kola/O'Neil really did find graves with human bones in them, the dogs will locate only on human and not animal graves. As for Treblinka, all the crap that the jews have littered about the camp would be no obstacle for trained dogs. The scent will waft up somewhere. IF there are "huge mass graves" at Treblinka, the dogs will locate them. Period end of statement. Same goes for Chelmno and Sobibor.

So there is no longer an excuse to not find the alleged graves that have yet to be located and there is no longer an excuse to not prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the graves that have allegedly been located are in fact filled with human bones and not animal bones.


Well the problem is that there is almost certainly mass graves at the Reinhardt camps (containing the Jews who died enroute, such as the 2000 dead Jews from the disastrous Kolomea transport), the problem is the actual quantity of human remains in them - and I doubt any trained dog could give an answer to that question.

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Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:38 am)

Laurentz Dahl:

Well the problem is that there is almost certainly mass graves at the Reinhardt camps (containing the Jews who died enroute, such as the 2000 dead Jews from the disastrous Kolomea transport), the problem is the actual quantity of human remains in them - and I doubt any trained dog could give an answer to that question.


I can't believe that you don't understand the simplicity of this. Please note the phrase - "almost certainly." This issue isn't about being "almost certain," it's about being, beyond a shadow of a doubt, certain.

Of course "any trained dog" will not answer this question. Cadaver dogs are just a part of the modern technology that can be used to verify IF there are "huge mass graves" where the holococaust industry tells us there are.

Using Treblinka as an example, yes there "most certainly" are graves in and around Treblinka I and II. But we have the ability to find their EXACT location, their EXACT dimensions and their EXACT volumetric density. Which will of course prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that the "huge mass graves" of Treblinka, if they do in fact exist, will contain nowhere near the alleged 870,000 cremated jews.

If your not afraid of the truth, then who cares if graves are found there? We can verify not only IF graves exist at these camps, but how many there are and how many people they contain. It's would be just as important to "prove" that the alleged "huge mass graves" contain only 5,000 poeple as it would be to prove that there are no graves at all.

The point is, we should all be trying to prove the truth, no matter what that truth is. And until we find out what that truth is, I'm guided by this truth:

IF it couldn't have happened, as alleged, then it didn't happen, as alleged.

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Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 2 years ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 2:26 pm)

Let me clarify someting here.

Please understand that i'm in no way trying to suggest that human remains detection dogs are the end-all solution to disproving the absurd tall tales of the holohoax. What I am saying is, and let's use Belzec as an example here, they can be used as a first step in proving that Kola's / O'Neil's claims of 33 mass graves with the remains of 800,000 jews buried in them is not only ludicrous, but can easily be proven false. IF Kola's / O'Neil's claims are true, then a human remains detection dog should be able to easily locate all 33 mass graves - THAT'S JUST THE FIRST STEP.

Of course, if a dog doesn't locate on a single grave, that won't prove conclusively that no graves exist, but it's the most logical first step to use to prove the lies of Belzec. After all, nobody in their right mind believes that 800,000 jews are buried at Belzec, even IF there are 33 mass graves with human remains in them. (Please notice the term - "in their right mind.") It's just as important to prove that - for arguments sake only here - that the "huge mass graves" contain only a fraction of the bodies that is now claimed as it is to prove that no graves exist at all. Am I making myself clear on this here?

The goal is to know the truth. If someone locates 33, or 13 or no mass graves at all, the fact remains that it is up to those of us in the holocaust truth movement (as the jews most certainly will not do it), to prove or disprove Kola's BS claim, and if human reamians detection dogs aren't the logical first step for debunking this nonsense, then would someone please tell me what is? Again, first step is the key word here, and this is why (Please look at the top letter under the TESTIMONIALS LINK on this site here - I was unable to copy it.):

http://www.k9forensic.org/

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:50 pm)

duckchuck wrote:The point is, mass graves, human or animal, can EASILY be detected using trained dogs and/or modern technology, no matter how long ago they were buried. (But please notice, dogs CAN differentiate between animal bones and human bones - that is what they are specifically trained to do.)


Um yeah, I've just spent the 3 hours reading up on "Cadaver Dogs", fact is, they can only find Human remains through the decomposing matter emitted, since these dogs track both ground & airborne scent, remains of much longer duration still need the Trace elements to be present.

There are however Dogs specifically trained in finding skeletal remains & these dogs are known as "human remains specialists", these dogs are a rarity, for every 1000 Cadaver Dogs you'll get just 1 which specializes in detecting Skeletal remains, however none of the articles was very specific on how old the remains could be before the dogs weren't able to detect them, most cases involving the recovery of remains was that of victims not more than 2 or 3 years in the ground.

Aside from all that, shouldn't we be looking for pits containing tens of thousands of pounds of ash?

Ok, there's the millions of teeth, can a dog distinguish between 60 + year old Human teeth as opposed to Animal?

just using the logic of the Holocaust lore.

There are good reasons why Archeologist's don't use Dogs, Both the Dogs & Handlers need to be specifically trained, they are rare & almost as soon as a body starts to decompose Minerals from the ground, ground water & rain start to seep into the remains causing fossilization & this alone will confuse the dog since this only adds to the number of scents the Dogs have to filter.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:57 pm)

StuDewan wrote:
duckchuck wrote:
Possibly, but how many of those other compounds are also given off by animals & rotting vegetation?



how about HCN?

not to be found on trees or animals, isn't it?

Stu


Hmm, very clever!

But then this presupposes that you believe in the lie that Zyklon B was used to gas Jews in the first place!.

It'll be interesting to see how you dig yourself out of that hole sunshine!

:wink:
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.



Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 2 years ago (Sun Mar 23, 2008 5:35 pm)

My last post:

Let me clarify someting here.

Please understand that i'm in no way trying to suggest that human remains detection dogs are the end-all solution to disproving the absurd tall tales of the holohoax. What I am saying is, and let's use Belzec as an example here, they can be used as a first step... IF Kola's / O'Neil's claims are true, then a human remains detection dog should be able to easily locate all 33 mass graves - THAT'S JUST THE FIRST STEP.


MrNobody:

Um yeah, I've just spent the 3 hours reading up on "Cadaver Dogs", fact is, they can only find Human remains through the decomposing matter emitted, since these dogs track both ground & airborne scent, remains of much longer duration still need the Trace elements to be present. There are however Dogs specifically trained in finding skeletal remains & these dogs are known as "human remains specialists...


What part of "human remains detection dogs" don't you understand MrNobody? I used the phrase three times in my last post.

MrNobody:

... however none of the articles was very specific on how old the remains could be before the dogs weren't able to detect them, most cases involving the recovery of remains was that of victims not more than 2 or 3 years in the ground.


First off, the origianal post of this thread tells us that dogs have been used to locate graves that, if in fact are related to the Manson murders, are 40 years old. And if you would have looked at the link I provided, you would have seen the testimonial that human remains detection dogs were able to locate known gravesites of from 20 to over 100 years old. And there are many more articles found in that link that tell of human remains detection dogs being able to find human bones many hundreds of years old. I suggest you do some more research.

MrNobody:

Aside from all that, shouldn't we be looking for pits containing tens of thousands of pounds of ash?


Are you telling me you still don't understand that cremation doesn't turn bodies into ash? Again, you have much research to do. I will help you out on this one, look at this link here: http://www.nafcash.com/

Also, in the link that I provided and you obviously didn't read, human remains detection dogs DID find graves that held cremated reamains, i.e. - "These burial include inhumations and cremation of varying ages from 20 years to 100 years and older.

MrNobody:

Ok, there's the millions of teeth, can a dog distinguish between 60 + year old Human teeth as opposed to Animal?


Yes

MrNobody:

There are good reasons why Archeologist's don't use Dogs, Both the Dogs & Handlers need to be specifically trained, they are rare & almost as soon as a body starts to decompose Minerals from the ground, ground water & rain start to seep into the remains causing fossilization & this alone will confuse the dog since this only adds to the number of scents the Dogs have to filter.


Bullshit. In no way am I claiming to be an expert on the use of human remains detection dogs being used by archaeologists, but I've read enough to know that your last paragraph is utter nonsense.

Yes, the use of human remains detection dogs is an new / emerging specialty, but the key is that it is one more tool that can be used to not only easily disprove the lies of the holohoax, but it's also a tool that is totally noninvasive. I suggest that anyone interested in the issue of using nonivasive archaeological thechniques in investigating these lies check out the Institute for Canine Forensics and The National Association of Forensic Criminologists, Archeologists, Skeptics and Historians websites.

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Postby StuDewan » 1 decade 2 years ago (Mon Mar 24, 2008 7:21 am)

MrNobody wrote:
StuDewan wrote:
duckchuck wrote:
Possibly, but how many of those other compounds are also given off by animals & rotting vegetation?



how about HCN?

not to be found on trees or animals, isn't it?

Stu


Hmm, very clever!

But then this presupposes that you believe in the lie that Zyklon B was used to gas Jews in the first place!.

It'll be interesting to see how you dig yourself out of that hole sunshine!

:wink:


well, if you are looking for mass graves then you must believe in some sort of mass killings... :wink:

Stu


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