'Nazi Atrocities, Committed by Ordinary People'

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Sannhet
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'Nazi Atrocities, Committed by Ordinary People'

Postby Sannhet » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:48 am)

What do you make of this article?

Nazi Atrocities, Committed by Ordinary People

By Georg Bönisch and Klaus Wiegrefe

From doctors to opera singers, teachers to truant schoolchildren, the extermination of European Jews was the work of roughly 200,000 ordinary Germans and their helpers. Years of research -- not yet complete -- reveal how sane members of a modern society committed murder for an evil regime.

Walter Mattner, a police secretary from Vienna, was there in October 1941 when 2,273 Jews were shot to death in Mogilyov in Belarus. He later wrote to his wife: "My hand was shaking a bit with the first cars. By the tenth car, I was aiming calmly and shooting dependably at the many women, children and babies. Bearing in mind that I have two babies at home, I knew that they would suffer exactly the same treatment, if not ten times as bad, at the hands of these hordes." After World War II, it was obvious to most observers that such acts could only have been committed by sadists and psychopaths, under orders from a handful of principal war criminals surrounding Adolf Hitler. It was a comforting way of looking at things, because it meant that ordinary people were not the real perpetrators.

But the horrifying results of an opinion poll that the Americans conducted in their occupation zone in October 1945 could have raised doubts even then about the version of the story that blames everything on a few pathological criminals. Twenty percent of the respondents "agreed with Hitler's treatment of the Jews." Another 19 percent said that although they felt that his policies toward Jews were exaggerated, they were fundamentally correct.

It took until the 1990s before historians and other experts embarked on a large-scale search for those men (and women) who carried out the Holocaust. The research isn't complete yet, but the results available to date are shocking.

The researchers found that the perpetrators included both committed Nazis and people who had nothing to do with the Nazis. The murderers and their assistants included Catholics and Protestants, the old and the young, people with double doctorates and poorly educated members of the working class. And the percentage of psychopaths was not higher than the average in society as a whole.

The number of perpetrators is now estimated at 200,000 Germans (and Austrians). They were police officers like Walter Mattner, concentration-camp personnel, members of the SS, or administrators. Another 200,000 Estonians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians and other foreigners also helped kill Jews, some because they were forced to do so and others voluntarily.

Crimes of Conviction, Crimes of Excess

Like Satan in the Old Testament, evil had many faces. There were those who committed crimes out of conviction, the dedicated Nazis in the police force -- members of the SS and the military who, like Hitler, were convinced that the Jews were the root of all evil. Some committed their first murders in the 1920s and 1930s. There were also those who committed crimes of excess, taking advantage of the Jews' lack of rights in Eastern Europe to rape and steal. In Western Galicia, for example, members of the occupation police force would spend their free time shooting Jews in the ghetto or blackmailing them for their jewelry.

There were those who just carried out orders from above, like Major Trapp of Reserve Police Battalion 101. According to witness testimony, Major Trapp was in tears when he ordered the shooting of 1,500 women, children and elderly Jews near Warsaw, all the while saying: "An order is an order!" In July 1942, his men drove the victims out of their houses, loaded them into trucks and took them to a remote clearing to be executed. They shot them in the head or in the back of the neck, and in the evenings the soldiers' uniforms were covered with bone fragments, brain matter and bloodstains.

Just as there is usually more than one perpetrator, there is a host of reasons why perfectly normal men turn to murder: years of indoctrination, blind faith in leaders, a sense of duty and obedience, peer pressure, the downplaying of violence as a result of wartime experiences, not to mention the lust for Jewish property.

One man who seemed to have no trouble switching from his desk to the massacres in the East was Dortmund native Walter Blume, born in 1906, the son of a teacher and a lawyer who completed the German equivalent of the bar examination with a poor grade of "adequate." Nevertheless, in 1932 Blume got a job as an assistant judge on the district court in his hometown.

Blume's career in the Hitler regime started on March 1, 1933, shortly after the Nazis came to power. His first position was as head of the political division at the police headquarters in Dortmund. After joining the Nazi Party and the Storm Troopers (SA), he became head of the Nazi secret police, or Gestapo, in the eastern city of Halle, in Hannover and later in the capital Berlin. The main purpose of rapid rotation in high-ranking positions, typical of the Gestapo, was to provide opportunities to gather repressive experience.

Starting on March 1, 1941, Blume headed the personnel department in Division I of the so-called Reichssicherheitshauptamt (Reich Security Main Office, or RSHA). His first assignment was to assemble suitable personnel for one of the murder commandos of the so-called Einsatzgruppen (Special Action Groups), a force consisting of roughly 3,000 men, known as the "Gestapo on Wheels." This group followed Hitler's army as it marched eastward and was charged with the immediate liquidation of "Jewish Bolshevism" and the "excision of radical elements."

Blume himself led a unit known as Special Commando 7a, which was part of Einsatzgruppe B. According to Blume's own records, his unit killed roughly 24,000 people in Belarus and Russia between June and September 1941. A short time later, Blume returned to the RSHA, where he was promoted to the position of division head and SS banner leader. In August 1943, he went to Athens, where he and two associates of Adolf Eichmann organized the deportation of Greek Jews to the Auschwitz extermination camp.

Blume was placed on trial in Nuremberg in September 1947, together with 22 other men, whose regular occupations qualified them as members of upper-class civil society. They included a dentist, a professor, an opera singer, a pastor, a teacher -- and a few journalists. Fourteen were sentenced to death, but only in four cases was the sentence carried out. US High Commissioner John McCloy pardoned the rest, including Blume, and they were gradually released from prison over the years. Blume went on to become a businessman.

Most of the perpetrators were never punished. There have been 6,500 convictions to date, and only 1,200 of them were for murder or manslaughter.



http://www.spiegel.de/international/ger ... 45,00.html

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Postby Moderator » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:10 am)

Sannhet,
Because you are new I've allowed your post. But be aware that we want commentary and opinions from those who post, i.e.: why you find it compelling, or why you think it's nonsense, etc. Simply posting text won't get it. We want your views. Thanks.
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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 11:45 am)

Yawn.
The posted text gets at the very heart of the ease in which the 'holocaust' is debunked. It makes claims for which it cannot provide proof.
ex:
Blume himself led a unit known as Special Commando 7a, which was part of Einsatzgruppe B. According to Blume's own records, his unit killed roughly 24,000 people in Belarus and Russia between June and September 1941. A short time later, Blume returned to the RSHA, where he was promoted to the position of division head and SS banner leader. In August 1943, he went to Athens, where he and two associates of Adolf Eichmann organized the deportation of Greek Jews to the Auschwitz extermination camp.

Oh really? Now show us Blume's "own records".
The ridiculous tales about the einsatzgruppen are refuted by the fact that there have been no excavations shown of the alleged massive shot-into-pits mass graves that are claimed. Not one
There is no proof that Auschwitz, or any of the labor sites were "extermination" camps. Nada.

Their just saying so doesn't make it so. Proof required.

This is really too easy.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby MrNobody » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 12:07 pm)

Hannover wrote:Now show us Blume's "own records".
The ridiculous tales about the einsatzgruppen are refuted by the fact that there have been no excavations shown of the alleged massive shot-into-pits mass graves that are claimed. Not one
There is no proof that Auschwitz, or any of the labor sites were "extermination" camps. Nada.

Their just saying so doesn't make it so. Proof required.

- Hannover


Yeah, you got to wonder why a man who's unit murders 24,000 people & who later organizes "deportations" to Auschwitz is later Pardoned by US High Commissioner John McCloy, that sure makes sense!

It took until the 1990s before historians and other experts embarked on a large-scale search for those men (and women) who carried out the Holocaust. The research isn't complete yet, but....

The number of perpetrators is now estimated at 200,000 Germans (and Austrians). They were police officers like Walter Mattner, concentration-camp personnel, members of the SS, or administrators. Another 200,000 Estonians, Ukrainians, Lithuanians and other foreigners also helped kill Jews, some because they were forced to do so and others voluntarily.


If it quacks like a duck & walks like a duck, then.....

Not merely content with Milking the German Government ( & it's citizens by extension), unpaid Insurance Policies, "Complicit or uncaring Governments", Swiss Banks etc etc etc. it now seems that the hunt is on to make individuals pay compensation (or their descendants)

You can also see that this is only aimed at the Germans & Austrians, you can see they are letting the Estonians, Ukrainians & Lithuanians off the hook, but only because they are piss poor from having their countries economically raped by centuries of Khazarian occupation.
Wir brauchen eine Bewegung, die Deutschland endlich aus der Kontrolle der Kräfte von Versailles und Jalta befreit, die uns schon ein ganzes Jahrhundert lang von einer Kastastrophe in die andere stürzt.

Helga Zepp-LaRouche.

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Postby duckchuck » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:09 pm)

Sannhet:

From doctors to opera singers, teachers to truant schoolchildren, the extermination of European Jews was the work of roughly 200,000 ordinary Germans and their helpers.


So the jews of Europe were "exterminated" huh? That's funny, I seem to recall that milllions of them survived the war, er, I mean the "holocaust."

Let's look at this term "exterminate."

ex·ter·mi·nate - Pronunciation [ik-stur-muh-neyt] –verb (used with object), -nat·ed, -nat·ing:

to get rid of by destroying; destroy totally; extirpate: to exterminate an enemy; to exterminate insects.

Well now, if the jews of Europe were "destroyed totally," then who are all these millions of people who have been receiving reparation payments from Germany all these years?

Oh, and if you really do believe that the jews of Europe were "exterminated," Sannhet, would you please tell us where they are all buried?

Yeah, the jews of Europe were "exterminated" by "doctors, opera singers, teachers and truant schoolchildren," LOL!!! - now I've heard everything.

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Postby K » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 28, 2008 10:32 pm)

I remember seeing that, it was even their top story. I didn't take it too seriously, it just seemed like an attempt to spread the guilt out. Just give off the impression you never know even if they weren't military your parents or grandparents may have helped out during the holocaust.

Next time I went to check the site I remember stories about the german jewish group trying to sue youtube, how the Pope's Good Friday sermon was anti-semitic and an article blaming german intelligence for the war in Iraq.

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:34 am)

... how the Pope's Good Friday sermon was anti-semitic ...

Hello K,

antisemitic:
Any thought or person that a Jew doesn't like.

Welcome to the CODOH Revisionist Forum, where rational thinking talks and bullshit walks.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:42 pm)

When will these people finally get their story straight. First they tell us the holocaust was so secret it was carried out by code and mental telepathy. That's why there are no written orders. The killing was done on an industrial scale in homicidal gas chambers operating 7/24.

Now we have 200,000 ordinary people involved some of whom write letters to their loved ones confessing to murder. The murder weapon and method are changed to what the NKVD used, namely a bullet to the nape of the neck.

Several mass graves courtesy of the NKVD have been found. We have yet to see the same for the Gestapo.

Sounds like more Daniel Goldhagen lore.

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Re:

Postby Veritas » 8 years 11 months ago (Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:58 pm)

Walter Mattner, a police secretary from Vienna, was there in October 1941 when 2,273 Jews were shot to death in Mogilyov in Belarus. He later wrote to his wife: "My hand was shaking a bit with the first cars. By the tenth car, I was aiming calmly and shooting dependably at the many women, children and babies. Bearing in mind that I have two babies at home, I knew that they would suffer exactly the same treatment, if not ten times as bad, at the hands of these hordes."

This sounds serious. Does anybody know more about Walter Mattner, his letters to his wife or the 2,237 shot Jews in Mogilyov?

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Re: 'Nazi Atrocities, Committed by Ordinary People'

Postby ovd1965 » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:07 am)

The "Einsatzgruppen" case seems to be a replacement for sinking death camp case (regarding the huge numbers of victims they need to complete the 6 mio number.)

But after finding some evil revisionist also attacking the einsatzgruppen case , we need more murderer , so we found the following at Mr. Desbois blog :

"Historical Research on the Holocaust in Ukraine: Achievements and Agendas
Dr. Wendy Lower The Holocaust by Bullets

The fact that most Jews in the Soviet Union, and therefore in Ukraine died at gunpoint has been
well known among prosecutors and historians. The fact that most were shot by Order Police
battalions and Waffen SS, and not the Einsatzgruppen,
has been the focus of research over the
past 15 years. This theme of mass shooting is being reexamined at the scenes, as Extraordinary..."

I suggest to research much more potential murderer : BDM , HJ , KdF.........

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Re: 'Nazi Atrocities, Committed by Ordinary People'

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:30 pm)

ovd1965 wrote:The "Einsatzgruppen" case seems to be a replacement for sinking death camp case (regarding the huge numbers of victims they need to complete the 6 mio number.)

But after finding some evil revisionist also attacking the einsatzgruppen case , we need more murderer , so we found the following at Mr. Desbois blog :

"Historical Research on the Holocaust in Ukraine: Achievements and Agendas
Dr. Wendy Lower The Holocaust by Bullets

The fact that most Jews in the Soviet Union, and therefore in Ukraine died at gunpoint has been
well known among prosecutors and historians. The fact that most were shot by Order Police
battalions and Waffen SS, and not the Einsatzgruppen,
has been the focus of research over the
past 15 years. This theme of mass shooting is being reexamined at the scenes, as Extraordinary..."

I suggest to research much more potential murderer : BDM , HJ , KdF.........

For more on charlatan Desbois see:

embarrassing Ukraine graves tale but no graves / phoney pix
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4375

Father Patrick Desbois' "Holocaust by Bullets"
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5410

French Catholic Priests travels to the Ukraine
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=5193

Revisionists are just the messengers, the absurd and impossible tales of the 'holocaust' is the message.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: 'Nazi Atrocities, Committed by Ordinary People'

Postby Hannover » 8 years 11 months ago (Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:37 pm)

see:
'Einsatzgruppe'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=5111
excerpt:
It's commonly stated that a total of 2,000,000 Jews were supposedly shot into massive pits by the einsatzgruppen.

So, is that:

100 graves of 20,000?

200 graves of 10,000?

400 graves of 5,000?

500 graves of 4,000?

1000 graves of 2000?

2000 graves of 1000?

for more see:
'Einsatzgruppen Reports'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4312

'Jaeger Report'
http://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?t=4248

The 'holocaust' Industry cannot actually show us a single 'holocaust' mass grave as alleged, not one ... simple as that.

- Hannover
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

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Re: Re:

Postby Hektor » 4 years 9 months ago (Tue Apr 07, 2015 8:13 pm)

Veritas wrote:
Walter Mattner, a police secretary from Vienna, was there in October 1941 when 2,273 Jews were shot to death in Mogilyov in Belarus. He later wrote to his wife: "My hand was shaking a bit with the first cars. By the tenth car, I was aiming calmly and shooting dependably at the many women, children and babies. Bearing in mind that I have two babies at home, I knew that they would suffer exactly the same treatment, if not ten times as bad, at the hands of these hordes."

This sounds serious. Does anybody know more about Walter Mattner, his letters to his wife or the 2,237 shot Jews in Mogilyov?
... I tried to search for his letters. Given the sensational content I'd thought they'd be displayed somewhere.
Guess what I found:
Image
mmh, nothing in handwriting.I wonder why?


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