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Holycaust
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A rare opportunity

Postby Holycaust » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:42 pm)

Hi all. I have just been presented with a rare opportunity. A friend of mine who is a teacher is teaching the holocaust in his class at the moment and he has asked me to write up something in dot point form that covers the core arguments of holocaust revisionists which he will use to discuss with his students in class.

Of course summarizing and condensing such a complex topic into a few dot points is no easy task so I'm looking for some help from my fellow revisionists. Which dot points do you all feel should be included to give a fair representation of the revisionist argument?

I should also mention that this is for a class of 15-16 year olds so it can't be too involved or the kids just won't get it. I'm thinking there should be some explanations of what these kids probably already know and have seen of the holocaust e.g camp footage, shower heads, piles of clothing, photographs etc.

Thanks all

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Postby Holycaust » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:56 pm)

Ok, I have written up a short introduction to this piece and I'd like to get your feedback. Here it goes...

There are many common misconceptions about holocaust revisionists. Most would know them only as ‘holocaust deniers’ to be shunned and treated with contempt and revisionists views are almost always misrepresented in the media. In the interest of setting some of the misconceptions right what follows is a summary of what holocaust revisionists do not contend.

•Holocaust revisionists do not contend that there was no holocaust depending on what the holocaust is defined as. Certainly a great calamity befell the jews of Europe during the second world war in which there were many personal tragedies. Revisionists do object however to the term ‘Holocaust’ itself as it implies that the suffering of the jews in ww2 was unique and therefore somehow more important than the sufferings of other non-jewish peoples throughout history. History has seen many holocausts and for this reason the term ‘jewish holocaust’ would be better suited.
•Holocaust revisionists do not dispute that jews were persecuted, rounded up and interned in camps, nor that many died in these camps of various causes including disease, malnutrition, over-working, mistreatment, execution etc.
•Holocaust revisionists do not contend that no jews were murdered by the Nazis simply because they were jews.
•Holocaust revisionists do not argue that the fate of the jews during world war 2 is any more morally justifiable even if it wasn’t as bad as is commonly believed.
•Holocaust revisionism is not about reviving National Socialism or washing Hitler’s dirty laundry. Holocaust revisionists are primarily concerned with correcting what they believe to be a grotesque distortion of real historical events for political and financial gain. Revisionists come from all over the political spectrum. Some are indeed right wing national socialists, others however including the founder of the revisionist movement Paul Rassinier who was himself a survivor of the Dora and Buchenwald camps are left wing communists or socialists. Others still have more what one would call moderate political views. While revisionists don’t always share the same political views what they do share is a desire to get at the historical truth and it is this desire that drives holocaust revisionism.


Comments and feedback welcome ;)

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Postby Hannover » 1 decade 1 year ago (Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:37 pm)

Holycaust,
Stop the defensive, apologetic tone.

- the gas chambers as alleged are scientifically impossible
If it can't happen as alleged, then it didn't.

- no one can show any of the alleged enormous mass graves ... not one
- there is no proof for the alleged '6M Jews' or the alleged 5-6M 'others'
- the 'suffering' of Jews was not unique, in fact they suffered much less than other ethnic groups at the hands of the Allies ... ask the Japanese and German civilians, ask the Soviet Christians
- revisionism is not about 'reviving' anything, it's about the facts

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Postby Haldan » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:37 am)

I think Hannover summarized it quite well and his opinion is very similar to that of myself.

It is the one who believe in the allegations of a "holocaust" that should be trying to convince us by showing us evidence for its occurrence, in all its shapes and forms - and not the other way around; such a reasoning would be absurd on its face.

-haldan
<?php if ($Holocaust == false ) {deny_repeatedly(); } else { investigate(); } ?>
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Postby It » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:09 am)

I think you should include a note about how revisionists are faced by the establishment. That is, not by constructive counter arguments but by slander and the ever present anti-semitic whip.
I would phrase this, not as a 'whining' statment, but as an encouragement to the students to consider what is said on it's own merit.

What I'm trying to say is; the objective here is to get the students to think for themselves right? So piling fact upon fact is probably not the best way to go. That will most likely shut most students off after awhile, like the Holohoaxers arguments do.

So, appealing to their curiosity in some way is probably best.
Asking simple questions, like about the revised plaque in Auschwitz and how it is that it hasn't affected the 6 million number (which is very good if they are going to discuss it in class).
Why no real forensic examination of the claimed extermination camp sites has ever been allowed.

You should point out the obvious revisionistic 'victories' over the years. The ever decreasing number of 'extermination camps' for example.

No one likes being lied to, so if you can make them question the obvious things, perhaps some of them might be interested enough to read up on the subject.


I hope I get my point across, I'm pretty clear on what I mean, but to write it down in English (not my native language) is something else.

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Postby theTRUTH » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:51 am)

Even though the large Auschwitz camps were surrounded by see-through wire fences allowing villagers and spies to see inside, in 1944 the American and British military did not bomb the camps or rail-lines leading to the camps, the large influential London Times and New York Times did not have stories about the supposed mass-murders beyond a few isolated back-page small stories, and the large 15 volume wartime memoirs of British leader Churchill and Allied commander Eisenhower did not contain even one word about the so-called Jewish Holocaust.

It wasn’t until 15 years after the war in 1960 that books began to be written and people like Adolf Eichmann put on trial for mass-murdering camp inmates.

From 1960 to 2008 increasing media coverage that supports the Holocaust makes us believe that during WW2 Allied leaders knew of the alleged Holocaust, however we now know Allied military leaders followed up on the isolated mass-murder rumors by conducting studies and concluded camp inmates were not being murdered or abused in the camps. (See www.air-photo.com)
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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:07 pm)

"Rare opportunity”, if he really exists, might get himself fired but here goes. There is just so much stuff. Where does one start? One must consider the audience...and their low attention span....

(i) The David Cole videos would be good start. It would also be good to mention the fate of David for telling the truth...

(ii) I think the American pathologists' reports immediately after WW2 that stated that there had been no gassing in all of Germany despite the hanging of guards for doing so would be a good introduction to the myths.

(ii) Ernst Zundel and others have good stuff on youtube also...

(iii) David Cole has also put out a list of 60 questions the hoaxers can't answer...as has Eli James (no relation)

(iv) It might also be interesting to make the kids aware of why the Germans and most of the world feared the oncoming Jewish led inspired, financed, implemented, 2000 year old war against Christianity which had killed 20 million Kulaks in Russia, or how Germany was stabbed in the back in WW1 over the Belfour declaration, but that might just get too far off course.... So on second thought it is best to keep it simple..."You must acquit if the glove does not fit" mentality is best for kids...This history might be too complicated for the kids…might be good for the teacher to know this stuff though..

(v) There is also a good video out there called " 1/3 of the holocaust" that gives a series of short little 5 to 15 minute videos on the silliness and dishonesty of the hoax.

Good Luck...Where on Earth is this to take place? Iran?

Barrington James
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby Holycaust » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:48 pm)

Barrington James wrote:
Good Luck...Where on Earth is this to take place? Iran?

Barrington James


No in a rural school in Australia. I'm also surprised that he asked me to do it. He himself is actually a holocaust believer who thinks my views on the holocaust belong in the same category as jfk assassination conspiracy theories and david icke's lizard people who rule the earth so I'm sure he'll manage to hang onto his job by doing his best to show the kids how foolish anything I give him is, to him at least.

Thanks for the input.

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Postby BradleySmith » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:20 pm)

The only quick observation I would make is that you might focus on what CAN NOT be demonstrated to be true with regard to the orthodox story. And to ask "why" after each observation perhaps.

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Postby Agrarian Reformer » 1 decade 1 year ago (Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:05 pm)

I agree with Hannover--lose the apologetic tone.

Points that haven't been mentioned already (unless I missed them):

Be sure to mention that the camp personnel were tortured after the war (any 15-16 year old can grasp this) and that many of the "confessions" were coerced through these methods which included testicle-crushing and mock trials.

You might also mention the Churchill/DeGaulle/Eisenhower memoirs [edit: theTRUTH already said this] not mentioning any extermination and follow it up with: "You'd think if a third of the Jewish race had been systematically murdered one of them would've mentioned it, particularly Churchill who was very pro-Zionist."

I'd also put the German POV in perspective for them, that Jews had to be interned for security reasons just as America rounded up Japanese and Canada rounded up Germans. If the Japanese had landed in California while at the same time Germany was demolishing American cities and supply lines with incendiary air raids the situation for the Japanese and Germans internees would've been as bad, if not worse, than the fate of Jews in Belsen and elsewhere.

You may then be asked, "But Germany was fighting Russia so why did they round up Jews?" Obviously you should then explain to them the overwhelming Jewishness of Soviet Russia at that time and the even-more-overwhelming SUPPORT for Communism by Jews outside of Russia. Tell them that in effect the Germans were fighting a war on three fronts: the east, the west, and the communist partisans inside the Reich (as well as in the occupied territories) who were determined in sabotaging the Nazi war effort by any means necessary.

And of course the most important point of all: tell them that questioning the holocaust is a CRIME, in several major "democratic" countries. (When I was a 16-year-old in high school I was convinced that Canada was one of the freest countries in the world. My "liberal" friends today still think Canada is freer than the United States.)
"Anybody can make an atrocity film if they take corpses out of their graves and then show a tractor shoving them back in again." - Hermann Göring

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Postby Barrington James » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:21 pm)

Holycaust- I still think that his teaching kids to think is a very dangerous thing to do, for once they taste the truth they not wish to go back to having their brains washed by their press, media and Hollywood.

This may shock and anger some of their zombie parents. At least two teachers in Canada have found themselves in such a mess - and they lost their jobs over it. But then again Canada is a very controlled country...and most Canadians don't even know it. They don't even suspect it. I'd like to know how it all turns out.

This poor guy probably has no idea just how easy it is to shoot down the holohoax...
You can fool too many of the people most of the time.

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Postby K » 1 decade 1 year ago (Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:40 pm)

Barrington James is correct. Hell I was shocked to find out how little evidence there is to support to the holocaust amongst the wealth of movies etc about it.

As for opening peoples eyes, it's generally hard to do because they'll always fall back on the did 6 million people just vanish argument. So getting into where that number came from would probably help. Maybe go as far as to mention how many victims are listed in the Bad Arolsen records and that not one is via gassing.

I'd even make mention of how in 1945 there were 22 gas chambers and by the 1950's that number was down to 6. All "confirmed" gas chambers were in soviet territory. After all, wouldn't that mean no ally actually saw a gas chamber themselves. Yet to this day they are a historical truth that cannot be challenged.

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Postby Mannstein » 1 decade 1 year ago (Sat Mar 29, 2008 9:53 pm)

You might also put a bullet which asks the question why revisionists and their legal counsel are being jailed in certain "democratic" European states for expressing their opinions.


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